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KARIN MIDULAR IN COMA; REPUBLIC DEMANDS TRANSFER

Author
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-12 20:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hadrian Tivianne
I don't think there is anyone here saying that Republic medical personnel or government officials should not be allowed to enter the system in order to get to the hospital. I also don't think anyone in the Federation government has alluded to such. The Republic should be allowed to visit.

But that's not what happened, is it? What happened is emotions ran high and a RSS military fleet illegally crossed the border into Federation space. Since that time there has been no attempt by the Republic to request access for a non military group to enter and oversee the care of the Ray of Matar. And yet, it seems like the Federation is receiving the most scrutiny, the most negative implications for their actions.

Please. The Federation has stated that she shouldn't be moved due to her current medical state. I don't believe they have said anything about not allowing Republic medical staff in to check out the situation for themselves.

Nor have they said that the Republic doesn't have the right to take Midular home. But if they do give in and move her in to Republic custody, who do you suppose is going to get the blame if she dies in the process?

Anslo wrote:
[quote=Vikarion]
NOW.

That being said, there's still absolutely ZERO excuse not to let Minmatar doctors assist in the situation in a cooperative clinical team during the situation. They won't give a name, a face, nothing about the killer. The least you jokers in the political and policy making sphere could do is let a gods damned DOCTOR IN WHO IS FROM AN ALLIED ENTITY.

Morons.

Again. Has the Republic requested access for their own Doctors? Has the Federation said no?
Anslo
Scope Works
#22 - 2013-04-12 20:41:54 UTC
Why do we have to wait for them to ask? We know they're hurting over in the Republic. The least we could do is say "Look, you can't just barge in and kill the guy, but we can have alternatives and act right now. We can organize a joint investigatory team and collaborative medical group." This could have been done same day, or at least STARTED. That wouldn't have hurt a thing. It would have given them hope and something to feel better about as they would be acting instead of being talked to like kids.

We're a great Empire and all, but we have no reason to talk down to ANYONE.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#23 - 2013-04-12 20:44:25 UTC
Any reasonable person should recognize that the Federation is doing its best in this tragic circumstance. I certainly empathize with those Matari who wish to see their sister returned to them, but please, for her sake temper that desire with respect for the doctors striving to save her life.

Similarly, the Federation should make every effort to allow her people access and provide for what care they deem necessary. This time not just for the sake of the patient, but so that her people can know that they are part of the effort to bring her back to health.
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-04-12 20:51:48 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Why do we have to wait for them to ask? We know they're hurting over in the Republic. The least we could do is say "Look, you can't just barge in and kill the guy, but we can have alternatives and act right now. We can organize a joint investigatory team and collaborative medical group." This could have been done same day, or at least STARTED. That wouldn't have hurt a thing. It would have given them hope and something to feel better about as they would be acting instead of being talked to like kids.

We're a great Empire and all, but we have no reason to talk down to ANYONE.

Yes, the effort should likely be made at this point to allow her people access. Prior to this point, though, I would say that the Federation was barely given any time to formulate their own next move.

As I said, I don't think anyone is denying that the Matari have a right to have access to Midular. I do think people have an issue with others claiming that the Federation is somehow denying this, though. Or people spouting unfounded claims that the Federation isn't allowing access, when no request has been made. It is a two way street, but difference between not sending them and answer or an invitation and saying "No" needs to be established.
Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-04-12 20:58:28 UTC
As in most situations a calm mind should be the first thing people try to maintain.

While Karin Midular is in a critical condition, moving her is dangerous.

Yes, when she has stabilised she should be moved, but not until then.
The fleet that was turned back was reportedly attempting to extradite the gunman by force. This was a mistake, made by the Matari command structure. The crime may have affected a ranking member of the tribes, but the crime was perpetrated within the federation, and their law should take first precidence here.
Once the judicial system in the federation has come to a conclusion, then the RJD can call for extradition so he can face further charges within the republic.

Patience is, in this case, a virtue.


Seven Tribes.
One Matari People.
Vlad Cetes
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2013-04-12 21:09:38 UTC
Why couldn't that assassin have shot straight and killed that woman?
For the right price I'll send in a team to finish the job.
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-04-12 21:18:22 UTC
And to think, people were up in arms over my offhand comment.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#28 - 2013-04-12 21:18:41 UTC
Vlad Cetes wrote:
Why couldn't that assassin have shot straight and killed that woman?
For the right price I'll send in a team to finish the job.


My, aren't we edgy today?

Here troll, have some attention.

Ninavask
The Synenose Accord
#29 - 2013-04-12 21:23:41 UTC
I completely understand the minmatar wanting her back but at this state moving her would likely kill her. If they want to pray for a miracle that Miss Midular survive I'd stop trying to have her life put in even greater jeopardy.

Either way, my heart goes out to any of her close friends and loved ones of Miss Midular and all those killed or wounded during this attack.

Dr. Ninavask Revan

Colonist

Alexylva Paradox

The views above are the opinions and beliefs of Dr. Ninavask and do in no way reflect on his employeers or associates at the time of posting.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2013-04-12 21:25:30 UTC
Whilst the decision to keep Karin Midular in a Federation hospital might well be the best one for her current condition, I hope the Federation understands that in taking responsibility for her care, they also take responsibility for the outcome in this fraught situation.

If she dies and the Republic have been denied access to her...

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-04-12 21:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Anslo has it more or less exactly correct. It's not a question of how well-equipped the hospital ship is, it's not a question of how high-tech the medical transport used to get her onto that ship is. Sometimes, a patient's survival and prognosis depend upon them being subjected to the absolute minimum of motion and environmental stress. The ATLS unit of a solidly-built hospital in a well-established city in a tectonically stable region on a high-security planet is as good as it gets. There's no insult involved in saying that anything less than that as-good-as-it-gets setting decreases her odds of survival, let alone good recovery

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-04-12 21:43:34 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

If she dies and the Republic have been denied access to her...

But they have not been denied access to her. Yes, the Federation has not reached out either. But that doesn't equal denial, and I would would also say that the RSS incident likely didn't help the matter either.

I'd also like pose the question of what happens if she should die whilst being transferred to Republic care? Will the Matari accept responsibility? Call me insensitive but based on what I've seen so far, I doubt it. It seems to me the Federation is going to take heat regardless of the course it chooses. My opinion is that they accept that, and move on with the patient's care in a way that is best for the patient.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#33 - 2013-04-12 21:57:56 UTC
Semantics need to be thrown out the window in this case, the priority goal should be the health and well being of Midular.

While it might be a happy story to have Midular brought back to health by her people, or that they had a hand in it, in truth it is utterly irrelevant. What matters at this moment above all is the patient gets the best care and attention, the emotional concerns of the masses are meaningless in comparison.

Admiral Blake, bluntly but rightly, pointed out the situation as to why she cannot be returned at this time, and the rest of you are playing guessing games as to who does and does not have access. At this point what the people want is irrelevant, no one has the right to risk her life with, what is in the greater scape of things, trivial feel good symbolism.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#34 - 2013-04-12 22:23:51 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
If Midular returns to Minmatar space in her current condition, she will die.


Would be for the best really.

Send the appeaser back, preferably in a box.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-04-12 22:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
disagreeing with a person's politics is not sufficient reason to wish suffering and death on them, Kazzzi. This kind of vocal hate just makes you look like a psychotic animal.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#36 - 2013-04-12 22:51:51 UTC
Anslo is quite correct. The lady should not be moved, save under extreme medical duress, and only to a facility better suited to her care, should one exist. Visitors should certainly be allowed - especially those with whom she is familiar. Comforting and familiar voices will be a great salve to her right now, and may help in her recovery. Scents, also, if they are available.

Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetic will happily provide any expertise or material required by the recovery of Mrs. Midular, should it be asked.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#37 - 2013-04-12 22:52:05 UTC
To this point, I've seen nothing specifically denying Republic medical crew access to Ms. Midular. Still, the Federation would surely be able to defuse this tension by proactively inviting Republic personnel to observe and assist. It would be a gesture of good will, acknowledging the Republic's perfectly reasonable interest in both the crime and Ms. Midular's health, while maintaining jurisdiction.

My fear is that Mr. Roden was elected to fight a war, and is essentially a war profiteer, not a qualified diplomat. Hopefully some capable senator or Gallente capsuleer will step in.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Xadiran
Moira.
#38 - 2013-04-12 22:56:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Xadiran
I have never personally had even the slightest relationship with Minmatar officials, or the republic, but I highly respect Karin for her past work and am truly saddened this happened to her. I am personally willing to donate large sums of isk if it will help acquire the kind of medical equipment and nano-technology needed to give her back her life.

Arguing about WHO gives her medical treatment is petty, people. I understand the Minmatar position, and how much Karin means to the Matar people, but if she is to survive, and more importantly regain a normal life, she should get treatment from the best medical professionals available, whatever nationality they may be. Bring the doctors to Minmatar space if that is the case, bring the best physicians the Federation, State, and Republic have to offer.

And I am quite serious about the credits. If need be, I'll even pay for the transportation of said medical professionals to Karin's side, wherever she may be, but the longer it takes for this to happen, the more likely we lose her.
Ran Kullervo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-04-12 23:03:25 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the extreme of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.


Having one mark or another on one's face is just lucking out in an idiotic mystical lottery. She's a woman, same as any other, and lots of women, men and children died in the attack.

**** the Voluval.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#40 - 2013-04-12 23:12:17 UTC
The thoughts and prayers of Clan and kin to all of the victims and families of victims who have been impacted by this event. I would hope that my tribe-siblings would remain calm and do our best to assist in any way we can, without disruption. For now.

However.

I believe I speak for the whole of my Tribe when I say that the Ray of Matar's health and safety is our number one concern. If it is in her best interest to be treated where she is, then she must be treated where she is.

For that reason, I await confirmation that doctors, investigators, and security personnel from the Tribe are being 100% cooperated with and that all records connected with this event are open to them.

Any response other than "yes, absolutely, we're doing this" simply means "we have things to hide from you".





"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"