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Mra Rednu

Oyonata Gate Defence Force.

Likes received: 532

#61 - 2013-04-12 20:00:13 UTC

Din Chao wrote:

Arline Kley wrote:

CCP Rise wrote:

We feel convinced that in their currently proposed state, Amarr battleships would have likely caused problems for lower skillpoint pilots trying to earn a living in Eve

You mean "Definitely caused problems"

And 10% powergrid isn't really enough. Only drops a T2 Tach to 3735, leaves a minimum PG of 26892..

Lower skillpoint pilots don't use T2 Large guns.

Lower skilled pilots shouldn't be flying BS's.....

Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 362
Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork Likes received: 362	#62 - 2013-04-12 20:06:31 UTC Regolis wrote: Reading comprehension -1 mate ... Your post makes absolutely no reference to staying in scale with Dual Beam / 350mm scaling. I'm still not certain what you are even getting at. Fitting and cap usage on one weapon type can't be compared to another - they're different weapon systems?

Sofia Wolf

Ubuntu Inc.

The Fourth District

Likes received: 293

#63 - 2013-04-12 20:09:29 UTC

Meh. I was kind of hoping there is going to be tracking nerf on long ranged pulses. It sure gona suck using sig tanking fleet concepts in the future with all the sig increases and tracking bonuses. Well whatever VOV.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...

Regolis

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 99

#64 - 2013-04-12 20:17:20 UTC

Mr Floydy wrote:

Your post makes absolutely no reference to staying in scale with Dual Beam / 350mm scaling.
I'm still not certain what you are even getting at.

Fitting and cap usage on one weapon type can't be compared to another - they're different weapon systems? Shocked

350mm Rail 1
activation 15.4
425mm Rail 1
activation 21

Dual Heavy Beam Laser 1
activation 35
Mega Beam 1
activation 65

Power use difference from 350mm rail to Dual Heavy Beam is a little more than double for the same stats
This is an acceptable amount of cap usage.

Power use difference from 425mm Rail to Mega Beam 1 is a little more than 3 T-H-R-E-E times the difference
This is way too high even with a 20% reduction

This is the point I'm trying to make ... not sure I can explain it differently...

Vibramycin

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 26

#65 - 2013-04-12 20:19:23 UTC

I'm sure this'll go over like a lead balloon, but why not play the huge cap use of lasers up as a differentiating feature of the turret types? That's sorta the point, right? eg, slight improvement to damage application or slight damage increase, instead of the proposed cap reduction...

Inspire interesting fitting dillemas... Lasers are noticeably better before you start fitting other mods, but while rails (just for example) can cheerfully slot a tracking computer, the laser users have to debate another cap booster.

It's easier to balance by homogenizing, but I'd argue that you get a more engaging game by differentiating and making your players think harder.

Wait should that be think harder or whine harder?

Maximus Andendare

Stimulus

Rote Kapelle

Likes received: 930

#66 - 2013-04-12 20:24:10 UTC

CCP Rise wrote:

Such an exciting week here on features and ideas!

We are continuously making adjustments around the new battleships, both based on our own assessments and on your feedback. This topic is partly the result of that feedback, and also partly due to more internal testing and discussion.

We feel convinced that in their currently proposed state, Amarr battleships would have likely caused problems for lower skillpoint pilots trying to earn a living in Eve. There were many avenues we could have chosen to address this problem, including a re-design of the Apocalypse, but we feel very happy with it's direction and wanted to keep it if possible. So, instead we are proposing the following:

-10% capacitor need for Large Pulse Lasers
-20% capacitor need for Large Beam Lasers
-10% powergrid need for Large Beam Lasers

This also acts as a continuation of CCP Fozzie's work on energy turrets during Cruiser Tiericide which you can look at here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155001&find=unread

Just like the Battleships themselves, public testing will be helpful in showing whether or not these changes are on target.

Thanks for all of your input!

CCP Rise

Seriosuly. You guys need to get on the same message. Last month, Fozzie is saying "oh we love the cap use bonuses are here to stay and lasers are inherently buffed" and today you're saying "we're doing away with cap bonuses and nerfing cap use but you get ship bonuses for lasers because they're weak." It's not only confusing for two members of the "balance team" who are allegedly tasked with doing the same thing to turn around and do the very opposite, it's also VERY difficult to keep up with two very different stances--from the authorities--on the same topic.

Just figure out a consistent plan and both of you go with it.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Ministry of War Amarr Empire 515
Naomi Knight Ministry of War Amarr Empire Likes received: 515	#67 - 2013-04-12 20:26:45 UTC Bouh Revetoile wrote: What about medium railguns ? :-( exactly

Naomi Knight

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 515

#68 - 2013-04-12 20:29:43 UTC

Regolis wrote:

Mr Floydy wrote:

now compare them to arties :)


Regolis Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 99	#69 - 2013-04-12 20:33:43 UTC I guess I'm going to have to go back and cover old ground. The major reason lasers use so much power was the following: 1)Lasers have unlimited ammo (no longer true unless you use T1 crystals) 2)Beam Lasers do more damage (well not really the comparable rails actually have higher damage mods) So why again do lasers use 3x more cap then a comparable rail gun?

Mr Floydy

Questionable Ethics.

Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork

Likes received: 362

#70 - 2013-04-12 20:39:28 UTC

Lasers are effectively infinite ammo in a combat situation. Yes if you run missions all day you'll have to buy new ones. But realistically, no-one ever loses a fight in Eve because they've ran out of Crystals :p (bar odd situations - ones which they've had long run out of other weapon ammo)

Beam lasers seem to track better than rails (Tachyon's aren't far off of dual 250mm rails) and do more damage. That's why they are whores for cap usage.

Retmas

Common Sense Ltd

Nulli Secunda

Likes received: 32

#71 - 2013-04-12 20:39:49 UTC

This Whole Thread wrote:

WAAH OMG WEAPON SYSTEMS ARE DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER AND USING STUFF ISNT EXTREMELY EASY TO DO ON ANYTHING I WANT

bloody seriously. yall wonder why nullsec wants to **** on you all day. if the game wasnt challenging and difficult, it would suck. get over yourselves.

yall wanna whine about **** that's incredibly broken, counter-intuitive to use, and generally makes people want to ragequit, go walk a couple miles in a high-level industrialist's shoes. get back to me when the blisters heal.

thanks for the changes CCP Rise, please dont take it personally but i find them to be, at most, bland. folks fit and used lasers before, they'll fit and use them afterword. it's a bump in the playing field, not a change in it.

/me goes back to his bitter indy corner

Ruze

Next Stage Initiative

Likes received: 523

#72 - 2013-04-12 20:45:25 UTC

If these changes go through, I will happily apologize to CCP Rise for my tone in the Amarr BS category.

That said, I'm still upset at losing the Armageddon, but here's my fingers crossed we'll get a Navy Knockoff.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Fusion Enterprises Ltd Pandemic Horde 442
Cage Man Fusion Enterprises Ltd Pandemic Horde Likes received: 442	#73 - 2013-04-12 20:50:12 UTC Definitely going to help making structure bashing oracle's more cap stable... and it aint going to hurt my NM either +1

kyrieee

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 165

#74 - 2013-04-12 20:51:02 UTC

Arline Kley wrote:

CCP Rise wrote:

We feel convinced that in their currently proposed state, Amarr battleships would have likely caused problems for lower skillpoint pilots trying to earn a living in Eve

You mean "Definitely caused problems"

And 10% powergrid isn't really enough. Only drops a T2 Tach to 3735, leaves a minimum PG of 26892..

Back in the day when people actually used sniper BS you would often only fit 7 Tachyons because that's all you could get on, and Apocs were still fine because Tachyons. Nothing's stopping you from doing the same today. Everything doesn't have to be homogenous.


Mr Floydy Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork Likes received: 362	#75 - 2013-04-12 20:54:24 UTC Ruze wrote: That said, I'm still upset at losing the Armageddon, but here's my fingers crossed we'll get a Navy Knockoff. I'm hoping, that it stays basically as it is - albeit fine tuned. Sexy looking laser blasting 5x heavy using machine of death

Retmas

Common Sense Ltd

Nulli Secunda

Likes received: 32

#76 - 2013-04-12 20:57:13 UTC

Ruze wrote:

have you not seen the megathron changes? it's a geddon without the wasted high slot or ****** cap bonus.

the new geddon is amazing. the old geddon is the new megathron.

Novah Soul

Likes received: 115

#77 - 2013-04-12 21:01:53 UTC

CCP Rise wrote:

Awesome changes. I always had cap issues with my 'baddons, but this should go quite a way towards solving the issues. Thanks much!

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor

717
Luc Chastot Likes received: 717	#78 - 2013-04-12 21:09:08 UTC 1 15% PWG reduction for tachyons sounds fair, if not a bit excesive. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

688
Sturmwolke Likes received: 688	#79 - 2013-04-12 21:17:51 UTC Well, thats a start at making the Amarr line somewhat more desirable as a solid workhorse. At -12% to -15% PG decrease, you might see some decent Abaddon fits with tachs. Looking at the PVE context, that'll turn some ships a bit OPed imo .... take a guess, it's not an armor tanker. What's the roadmap for revisiting the other (Navy/T2/Pirate) ships it touches?

Esquire Armaments 463
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments Likes received: 463	#80 - 2013-04-12 21:18:32 UTC thx CCP Rise and CCP Fozzie. Pretty nifty at first glance. Will check some numbers in the morning.