Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Finally, the long-awaited Eagle nerf is here!

Seriously though, you should hold fire on the change to HACs HICs and CS until you rebalance them properly. And have a look at large artillery alpha too.

@Fozzie
I have some questions concerning the reduction of resists bonuses in connection to the rebalancing work already done on frigates, cruisers, and battle cruisers.
I assume that the ships with the resists bonuses which have already been rebalanced were rebalanced with the 5%/level resist bonus in mind. Will this this not unbalance those ships that are affected with this change?
To me it seems that this change will be a general nerf to primarily amarr and caldari ships. Furthermore, provided that the previous rebalance work was done properly in the first place with resists on 5%/level, this change will negatively unbalance those ships. If you think this change will properly balance the already rebalanced ships I guess this means that rebalance work on those ships were not properly done in the first place...!
Anyway... will the ships already rebalanced be compensated with additional hp to compensate for the loss of hp from the lowered resists?
EDIT:
I think this general approach is too unprecise and that the change should be made of the rebalance process on a case by case basis. Therefore, I think that resists bonuses should reevaluated when you make the next rebalancing pass to the ships already rebalanced - as have been stated rebalancing is a continuous process. I realize that this will take longer, but it will also be done properly rather than an unprecise "quickfix" which may unbalance already rebalanced ships...
A reply is appreciated.

4% is an improvement, but I think 3-3.5% is going to be the real balance point.

The really big problem I have with resistance bonuses is their application to ships which are already heavy on buffer, both in HP and slot layout. When comparing to Minmatar it gets truely stupid. A triaged Archon with its resist and low-slot advantage, has about 3x the repping abilty (reps+resist+time) of the Nidhoggur. Fitted for heavy armor BS fleeting, an Abaddon has 2x the EHP of a Typhoon (the tankiest Minmatar BS) and enjoys better effect from dedicated RR. This trend continues all the way down the lines. The Caldari arn't so bad, apart from that damned Drake.

Considering ships in 1v1 the races arn't terribly unbalanced, they just have different character. However, as a fleet size increases, the resistance bonused ships will always force direct alternatives to the sidelines.

All that being said though, I'm really in the group that thinks resistance bonuses should not be on T1 ships.

This change will affect more shield ships than armor ships, how are you attempting to balance them?

ROF needs nerfing to 4% too with your logic then, make it happen. Let's just nerf everything so everything is so bland and boring but BALANCED.

Fozzie, why not leave the 5% bonus and take out a relevant slot? Just like, you know, drone boats have to lose 1 slot just because.

Glad that CCP Fozzie assumes evreybody has level 5 skills.

Too bad in the real game we don't all get ALL V ccp characters.

Looking forward to ****** T3s especially after the incoming nerf they don't deserve but I'm sure you will implement.

Thankyou for this. while i may not always agree with the balancing its this idea of keeping the system healthy and not just doing what will be popular that will keep eve going through the years. wow and other mmos may not experience the negatives of power creep at first, but it very quickly becomes a problem in end game. in eve everything is pretty much endgame so focusing on the balance health is very important.

Here is how I understand the problem.

The core of this problem seems to be the trouble separating two different roles for ships.
1. Ships that are supposed to work well with their internal resources, without depending on external sources. (Local resources.)
2. Ships that are designed to reach their full potential by depending on external resources. (Fleet resources.)
The "intended roles" is the assumed motivation for everything here, so if these are not the roles intended my mistake for misunderstanding.

So currently the specific problem is that local repair bonuses are overshadowed by resistance bonuses. This is because the resistance bonus boosts local tank just as much as the intended repair bonus, while also providing other defensive benefits IN ADDITION to directly augmenting the use of fleet resources. (The EHP bonus from resistance has solo value because your ship will take longer to break in a race against time, this also is good in fleet situations because it gives logistics more time to respond successfully. Also the lowered incoming damage makes higher EHP/s values possible which directly increases the value of remote reps. You can simply tank more incoming damage before you start to break.)

So basically what I am getting from this is that the bonus intended to focus on role "2" as described above also works just as well for role "1", making the bonus for role "1" inferior due to being superfluous.

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Why not increase the value of the local rep bonus instead of reducing the resistance bonus? These two bonuses are designed for different purposes, wouldn't increasing local rep bonuses make these two bonuses more distinct from one another? If the resistance bonus is too powerful, relative to the local rep bonus, it seems logical to me to increase the local rep bonus.

Instead of thinking "I don't want to use my local rep ship because the resistance bonus ship is too strong." Think, "I don't want to use my local rep ship because the local rep is too weak."

Honestly I think this is a bad idea.

Some ships with the combination of bonuses may be a bit strong and need to be examined but to throw Frigs, Cruisers, BCs, BSs, HAC, Faction ships.. all in one pot and apply the change to a whole pot of them is LAZY at best.

Each ship/class need to be look at separately.. take the ferox for example.. few flies this ship before the BC changes now i see a bit more of them which is a good thing cuz its a great ship. I solo in it but honestly losing that 5% is gonna make things A LOT harder to the solo player...

First of all Armor Resist are stronger than Shield Resists.. so Armor and Shield need to be look at separately.

Also not everyone has level 5 skills.. so for us that dont these resist bonuses are forgiving to us and make PVP more viable..

Also.. i understand your goal is to balance these ships but the game itself can NEVER be balanced.. ppl with different skill levels.. ships with different roles... you shouldnt try to make everything equal... then there is no point to fly one ship over the other..



If you wan to change resistance bonuses do it properly on a ship by ship bases.. don be lazy just apply the bat to all and hope it will work out for the best..