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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1721 - 2013-04-12 13:43:32 UTC
Marxzo Andoun wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Marxzo Andoun wrote:

Heck I even noticed with the missile slots on the geddon, it makes a better progression ship to training towards a Rattlesnake... barring the Amarr ship training of course.

At this point the Amarr line up is geared toward better progression than the Gallente line up.
Most Amarr drone ships get a bonus to Energy neutralizers, which happen to have the same prerequisite skill as energy transfers which the Archon gets a bonus to.
The Gallente line up, while it has its strengths, takes a sharp turn after the Vexor and kinda goes where ever and then takes another big twist on the way to the Thanatos, as the only thing it has in common with its sub cap cousins is the drone aspect.


I suppose, though with an 11 day train on large T2 neuts it's not exactly progression training. More like something you stick in your queue cause it's silly not to.

Large T2 missile systems take a month just to be able to slap it on your ship and another couple of weeks to months depending on how decent you want to be a blapping stuff with them.

What I was more getting as is for the Gallente line up you are given a hybrid damage bonus up till battle cruisers, which presumably you will continue to battleships, then go back and train logistic skills to use a carrier.
With the Amarr line up you are given a bonus to a module that directly correlates to what the carrier uses.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1722 - 2013-04-12 13:55:54 UTC
Speed / Class / Name

89 Combat Rohk
89 Combat Abaddon
94 Combat Maelstrom
94 Disrupt Scorpion
100 Combat Armageddon
109 Combat Dominix
113 Attack Apocalypse
113 Attack Raven
115 Combat Hyperion
120 Attack Tempest
122 Attack Megathron
130 Attack Typhoon


The hyperion has far too much base speed it is faster than 2 of the races attack bs
Some more thought needs to go in here I think, Classes should be viable across all races no just within a race.

Hyp speed to 105
Domi to 100
Raven and Apoc to 120
Mega to 130
William R Blake
We Did A Thing
Probably Up to No Good
#1723 - 2013-04-12 14:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: William R Blake
Dav Varan wrote:
Speed / Class / Name

89 Combat Rohk
89 Combat Abaddon
94 Combat Maelstrom
94 Disrupt Scorpion
100 Combat Armageddon
109 Combat Dominix
113 Attack Apocalypse
113 Attack Raven
115 Combat Hyperion
120 Attack Tempest
122 Attack Megathron
130 Attack Typhoon


The hyperion has far too much base speed it is faster than 2 of the races attack bs
Some more thought needs to go in here I think, Classes should be viable across all races no just within a race.

Hyp speed to 105
Domi to 100
Raven and Apoc to 120
Mega to 130




Thats one of the reason i support Johnny Aideron proposal, which is to ; swap the roles between Mega and Hyp then make the layout that he proposed. Hype even got High Velocity Helmsman cert for crying out loud. Its obviously not a combat but an attack BS.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1724 - 2013-04-12 14:19:43 UTC
William R Blake wrote:
Dav Varan wrote:
Speed / Class / Name

89 Combat Rohk
89 Combat Abaddon
94 Combat Maelstrom
94 Disrupt Scorpion
100 Combat Armageddon
109 Combat Dominix
113 Attack Apocalypse
113 Attack Raven
115 Combat Hyperion
120 Attack Tempest
122 Attack Megathron
130 Attack Typhoon


The hyperion has far too much base speed it is faster than 2 of the races attack bs
Some more thought needs to go in here I think, Classes should be viable across all races no just within a race.

Hyp speed to 105
Domi to 100
Raven and Apoc to 120
Mega to 130




Thats one of the reason i support Johnny Aideron proposal, which is to ; swap the roles between Mega and Hyp then make the layout that he proposed. Hype even got High Velocity Helmsman cert for crying out loud. Its obviously not a combat but an attack BS.


I thought you were ironizing with my opinions for the 7-8 slots matters... xD

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp

Havegun Willtravel
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
#1725 - 2013-04-12 14:30:09 UTC
Hi Rise & Team,

Thanks for all your work to date. I can imagine you're busy dealing with fallout in other threads, so we probably wont hear from you till Monday. Have a fun weekend.

Attack vs Combat: Changing from Tiers to Roles makes it a bit of an Apples or Oranges thing for me. IMO new Hype does everything it used to do but does it better now. New mega does everything it did before only better now. Domi still not sure.

If it's that big a deal to some people, could we just go double Attack like Minmatar ? I'm more concerned with the stats and slots than the name, and atm I'm liking what I see.

Hype: Better for PvE, people will find something useful to put in the high that will help. Much better for PvP, there will Always be some good reason for that high slot in a close range Blaster ship. Could probably fit rails in a fleet fight and be respectable, but still 2'nd place to a mega. If it does turn out to be a bit OP 100/175 on the drone bay wont have people screaming for your head, so you've got wiggle room there.

Mega: Better for PvE. Better than ever as a close range Blaster platform. Highly viable as a fleet platform. Might not be perfect with T2 425's but that's what meta 4 and implants are for.

Navy Megathron: Though I'd start lobbying earlyRoll. Already has 8 lows so that bonus slot has to go somewhere. The 8-4-8 will be popular with some people but I'd like to X up for 7-5-8 100/150. Some people will shield tank it but most will dual web it which is a blaster boats dream ( while still leaving the Vindi King of the HIll ).

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1726 - 2013-04-12 15:14:17 UTC
Havegun Willtravel wrote:
Mega: Better for PvE. Better than ever as a close range Blaster platform. Highly viable as a fleet platform. Might not be perfect with T2 425's but that's what meta 4 and implants are for.

Navy Megathron: Though I'd start lobbying earlyRoll. Already has 8 lows so that bonus slot has to go somewhere. The 8-4-8 will be popular with some people but I'd like to X up for 7-5-8 100/150. Some people will shield tank it but most will dual web it which is a blaster boats dream ( while still leaving the Vindi King of the HIll ).

The Mega higly viable as fleet platform, I doubt it. As I said, amarr and caldari are both better for anything you could do with your megathron. I already showed a beam abaddon fit which does everything can megathron can do, but with better resists and better dps at close range. Blaster fit, you will lack range on the Megathron, because blasters are not a weapon for fleet focus fire and fast target switching. So I wonder what it will be useful for.

And looking to it, the Navy Megathron already does anything you can only dream to do with this Megathron version. I really think the Megathron should have 5 mid slots. He would then compete with minmatar ships, but hybrid guns with drones compete with projectiles at least. Hence why I think the first version of the Megathron was very good.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#1727 - 2013-04-12 15:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Does the domi seem a bit low on power grid to anyone else?

thhief ghabmoef

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1728 - 2013-04-12 15:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
The Mega higly viable as fleet platform, I doubt it. As I said, amarr and caldari are both better for anything you could do with your megathron. I already showed a beam abaddon fit which does everything can megathron can do, but with better resists and better dps at close range. Blaster fit, you will lack range on the Megathron, because blasters are not a weapon for fleet focus fire and fast target switching. So I wonder what it will be useful for.

And looking to it, the Navy Megathron already does anything you can only dream to do with this Megathron version. I really think the Megathron should have 5 mid slots. He would then compete with minmatar ships, but hybrid guns with drones compete with projectiles at least. Hence why I think the first version of the Megathron was very good.


Fit one up. And use rails, FFS.

Right now it is an extremely solid mid-range fleet brawler. It is 2nd best at 40-60km, without the crippling range limitations of the best, meaning is is basically a far more flexible Abaddon.

Its tank is either 4th with good resists or 2nd with bad resists. With 600 CPU, it could be a solid #2 in tank.

In other words, it is a truly solid fleet option. #2 in range, tank and damage if it gets its CPU boost. All the rest get to be good at 1 or 2, and suck at the 3rd.
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1729 - 2013-04-12 15:32:24 UTC  |  Edited by: smoking gun81
I have flown the mega for a good long time in game and have always felt it needed the 8th turret hardpoint CryCryCry
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#1730 - 2013-04-12 16:08:02 UTC
It is sad Hype lost its turret DPS.
I mean it is much better to have a turret DPS instead of additional drone damage aka increased bandwidth.

In PvP or PvE drones are a bad idea.

Whatever.

Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#1731 - 2013-04-12 16:08:59 UTC
Roime wrote:
[Dominix, I'm LR fit pls don't warp to 0]

664dps @ 78+12km
0.09389 tracking
133K EHP

1041 dps with blasters and Ogre IIs

dat tracking


1)You have a range of ~75km depending on skills.

2)What exactly do you plan on engaging at that range? It's not far enough to snipe anything, come back when it can hit at LEAST 100km

3)That build is built to fight what, tengus? It's going to get demolished by pretty much any other doctrine out there right now, and tengus aren't hard to counter as it is.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1732 - 2013-04-12 16:54:34 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Does the domi seem a bit low on power grid to anyone else?

They bumped it from 9k to 10k. They would need to bump it more to get a full set of higher tier guns on it (Ions). They might be afraid that the Domi could then fit a full rack of heavy neuts which may invade the space of the Geddon too much.
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1733 - 2013-04-12 17:17:40 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Komen wrote:
I am gobsmacked at the megathron changes. 'Often unused utility hi-slot' MY ASS. I have at least three uses for that slot, it never goes empty. Learn to fit your ******* ship.

Empty utility slot. Roll

And then you're going from a damage bonus to a ROF bonus...and a tracking bonus...

I actually lost braincells, is how stupid that idea is. The megathron does not have trouble hitting targets, and a tracking bonus on large guns is almost useless. The ship isn't broken as it sits right now, but you've just about figured how to introduce that problem.

And you're supposed to be some genius ship balancer with a good knowledge of vessels.

Fired. NEXT.


Lemme guess. Neut (only matters for brawler fits), Remote Rep (waste of a slot), and cyno.

That slot is empty in the vast majority of Megas I have seen.


You got the first one right. I do have a close-in brawler fit mega with a heavy neut in that slot.

Then, because I'm a wormhole dweller - probe launcher is an alternative.

Lastly I worked in a smartbomb, because drones.

And you suggested two other options. Cyno, heh. Nullbears.

While that slot might go empty on a lot of megas, that's because there's a lot of people in Eve who are bad at fitting ships. There's a clear false logic here that because that slot goes empty a lot it must not be useful much. Wrrrrrrrrrrrrong.
Commander A9
Aurora University
#1734 - 2013-04-12 17:21:03 UTC
Oh, that's great. My favorite Gallente Battleship (Hyperion) is losing 2 turrets. :(

Wonderful. And I was just getting excited about the prospect of maximizing my large hybrid capabilities.

Recommendations:

-enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters)

-add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot)

-STOP NERFING EVERYTHING!

Join Live Events!

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1735 - 2013-04-12 17:27:10 UTC
Komen wrote:

You got the first one right. I do have a close-in brawler fit mega with a heavy neut in that slot.

Then, because I'm a wormhole dweller - probe launcher is an alternative.

Lastly I worked in a smartbomb, because drones.

And you suggested two other options. Cyno, heh. Nullbears.

While that slot might go empty on a lot of megas, that's because there's a lot of people in Eve who are bad at fitting ships. There's a clear false logic here that because that slot goes empty a lot it must not be useful much. Wrrrrrrrrrrrrong.


/facepalm

Optimized fits just don't have room for anything in that slot. It is by far the lowest priority slot to fill on the ship unless you're building a pure brawler and need to neut, at which point it is about even with or just below a mid in terms of priority.

Fitting a basic probe launcher honestly is pretty much a waste in most cases. Might as well stick a salvager on it. Heh. You're better off with a dedicated prober, it most certainly isn't worth -1 low or -1 mid.

As for a smartbomb, again, you're just sticking something in there for the sake of sticking something in there. A low or mid is infinitely more useful.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1736 - 2013-04-12 18:19:08 UTC
Commander A9 wrote:
Oh, that's great. My favorite Gallente Battleship (Hyperion) is losing 2 turrets. :(

Wonderful. And I was just getting excited about the prospect of maximizing my large hybrid capabilities.

Dude ! 6 turrets may not be that sexy, but it's definitely optimized ! The new Hyperion is better than it ever was !
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1737 - 2013-04-12 18:20:55 UTC
Changes to the Dominix.

1) You are saying that the Dominix is now a sentry drone ship (lets be honest, with the new bonus, the only reason to fly it is if you use sentry drones).

2) Given that it is now a sentry boat & you have been it two omnidirectional links, you have basicly given it 2 free slots.

3) We are left with a Gallente battleship that has the following slots free 6/5/5 or 6/5/4 if you go with 3 DDA.

4) You pretty much have the shield tank it (which is fine, shield tanking is better at the moment). Wouldn't moving a mid to low make more sense given that the hull bonus is two free mid slots though?

5) Looks like the optimal fit for Dominix is going to be Drones/Shield/Autocannon. How is this a Gallente ship again?


Not that I'm complaining (other than all the time spent training T2 Rails/Blasters), it's going to be a much better ship.

-FM
Ju0ZaS
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1738 - 2013-04-12 19:49:24 UTC
I think that a Megathron would be best beeing a faster Vindicator with lower HP. With a slot layout of 7/5/7 and 7 guns you could set up a dual web fit. The Idea obviously would be to aproach, put hard webbing on your target, owerwhelm with high dps, and f off after the kill or contineu to the secondary. Regarding the rate of fire bonus, it's just going to make the ship use cap faster and shoot through ammo quiker. Gallente should be focused on high voleying blasters on their short range gun boats, not high rate of fire like Minmatar. The current bonuses are fine.

About the Dominix, I like the idea of being able to control 10 drones at lvl5. It would take the role of a subcapital drone boat to a new level. I don't think it would hurt the server too much, as only 1 subcap ship could have this ability. I'm kind of conflikted though because when you think of it, with out an increased drone capacity you're not even going to be able to have 2 flights of drones that use 25 m3. And if you increase it, it kind of goes against the CCP's general idea of Amarr having less bandwidth and more drone bay capacity than Gallente. Right now the Gedon and the Domi both have 375 m3 for drones and 125 bandwidth. I guess it would be fine considering that it would become a ship purely relying on drones for dps. The scorpion has 3 donuses, the domi could perhaps have 3 as well: +1 drone, 10% damage and hp, 7.5% tracking and optimal rage per lvl. Not even considering a drone speed bonus as the ship is ment for heavy and sentry drones.


+1 for a new Domi model... Typhoon would aslo be great. :)


For the Hyperion the 5 mids and 7 lows would work perfectly as an active tanking ship. For the highs, unless you're planning to redo the hyperion model, so it wouldn't be so obvious that it's hull ment for 8 turrets, you should probably keep the highs as it is. But then I think the ship would have 1 slot too many. As a side note, the other race's combat gun boats have 8 turrets. 6 on a hyperion and its role just doesn't look right. Maybe 6 guns with a model ment for 8 will be fine if you'll come out with a navy version for the hyperion one day along with the other BSs which are missing them.

Are you going to fight me or do you expect to bore me to death with your forum pvp?

Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1739 - 2013-04-12 20:30:49 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Commander A9 wrote:
Oh, that's great. My favorite Gallente Battleship (Hyperion) is losing 2 turrets. :(

Wonderful. And I was just getting excited about the prospect of maximizing my large hybrid capabilities.

Dude ! 6 turrets may not be that sexy, but it's definitely optimized ! The new Hyperion is better than it ever was !


Ship gets cheaper to fit and will have more "relative" grid as well Twisted

I'm 100% in agreement with you bouth, the Hyperion is going to be a monster in the small scale arena. Infact I think the extra 50m3 of drone bay may be a bit over the top. Will have to wait till things hit sis/duality but I have a good feeling that the Hyperion will be one of the most effective small scale ships out there so long as large numbers of nuets are not involved.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1740 - 2013-04-12 20:36:33 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Does the domi seem a bit low on power grid to anyone else?

They bumped it from 9k to 10k. They would need to bump it more to get a full set of higher tier guns on it (Ions). They might be afraid that the Domi could then fit a full rack of heavy neuts which may invade the space of the Geddon too much.
lol--first, nobody is going to fit hybrids on the post-Odyssey Domi when projectiles do as good a job with less fitting and no cap use. And also lol to "Domi invade on Geddon's space" when it is the Armageddon which is solely the one who took the neuting Domi--a role the Domi was well suited for--out back and put a bullet through its head. The Geddon is a laser beam spewing monster--the big brother of the Omen in the Amarr ship line--at the moment, not a neuting platform. If anyone has stepped on anyone else's toes, it's definitely the Geddon onto the Domi.

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