Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I thought I remembered you from somewhere Dracvlad, now I recall - you were the one who helped me look for that Rorqual pilot from Outer Ring, weren't you

Yes, you are correct - cynos aren't a threat in w-space. Then again, a cloaky loki/proteus can be equally threatening since nobody knows he's there in the first place. He can just sit back, wait for a target he can kill and attack.

Also, I raise the fact of space control due to it being harder to sneak a cloaky into a well-controlled wormhole.

The fail was on your part, not mine.

The facts still solidly support my points, and you never succeeded in refuting any of them.

Your new sig is modified in a way to react to my statements even:
If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that! There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it.

Pointing out WH space is not like Null is a curious reversal of your earlier position.

It was not malicious, but I simply won't acknowledge points relying on bad information.

Why don't you just admit that local is free intel, and dumbs down the game?

We WANT players to make an effort to learn intel, and process it. That is a GOOD thing.
Dotlan, the maps, all of it represents effort to gather and a need to coordinate for the intel to be dispersed without duplicating effort mindlessly.
Local does that all for us, and by so doing kills any difference in effort we can make. THAT is how it dumbs down our game, and consequently the rewards in null.

THAT is how we COMPETE with each other, not by seeing who fell asleep and forgot to push the warp button when a non blue showed up on the pilot list....
Waiting for someone to screw up or be careless as the only way to win is weak game design, we deserve better.

Awww.... I keep hoping for a rational debate on this, with someone who logically supports that position.

Kind of a catch 22, I see now... If they relied on logic they really could not support that position. Supporting it relies on non empathetic self interest.

Someone else kinda pointed this out to me a page or two ago... doh!

Just send me ISK, it's all good

Lets try again without the sillyness.

Local is about as free as the other system intel, one you have a channel open, the other you have to click on the map and click one button. I don't see much difference in effort, certainly no one making an effort to gather that data in game, can you really not see the difference? I am not trying to score points here, just cannot understand why you think its different.

Local is required for 0.0 and null because of the issues of game balance more than anything else, because without local, the risk is too great due to the power projection of cyno's more than anything else, and people would most probably end up ratting in destroyers and frigates with empty clones, and with that there is no reason to be in 0.0 as a PvE player unless you went there for PvP. Its not so much that we disagree on the affect of local, but rather the impact of removing it.

You may have noticed in my suggestions that I think CCP should do something about that two second delay where you get reported in local but have not actually arrived. In terms of people who do it right then they should be able to get away in the main, but I tried to point out in other threads that after an hour or two of ratting its very difficult to keep focus, and those that hunt need to use gaps in local intel reporting and the reduction in awareness to get kills.

But its not just that, people in carriers have real issues, for example what if you in warp to a CA when someone enters local, you are dead, what if you arrive and a rat scrams you, in Serpentis space they did that out of range of smartbombs and you of course still have to align out. Luck does come into it too.

I have lost two ships in 0.0 ratting in my time playing and both times was when people were in system and because it was Stain NPC that is what I had to work with, the first was when my CEO warped us to 0 in a belt and a sabre uncloaked with a bubble, I killed the sabre but died. The next time was when I left the scramming rats to a corp mate and he did not kill it fast enough and someone warped in on me. I however have lost count of the numbers of times I was almost caught, I used to use a drake and kite aligned, so could do exactly what people do with local and did. As I said I could operate in 0.0 without local, though with the nerf to the drake range it will be a lot more difficult. It is fun, but very intense, if you increased the bounty for belt rats in this case maybe it would be attractive enough to keep people out of HS.

But the big issue is that you will make 0.0 even less populated due to peoples risk aversion and many of us think that is a bad thing.

Does that clear the air a bit?

I wish I had just shot him and stayed, I was enjoying the PvP.

Yeah I just brought another one, though this is one of those armour fleet webbing types.

AFK cloaking is not boring if you have multitudes of accounts, but I did it with my accounts in Venal on Razor and was bored after a couple of days, but it was effective, but I only lasted a week. There are some people in this game who have so many accounts its silly who do it.

Even if you remove local people will still AFK cloak, because as I pointed out earlier people can still work out whether there is someone in system using the map intel and checking back with their people. I cannot see anyway to make it work without local and not see a flood of people head back to HS.

Those industry issues are massive, I started industry, but went shooty, but now trying it again, I will get bored soon and go back to shooty, Movack does rat in a carrier after all...

The topic post:

"Main reasons AFK cloaking exists and is disliked"

The first point: AFK Cloaking.

How do you know they're AFK ? Because they appear in the system & don't say anything? Because they stay in the System for hours on end?

So I ask again - How do you know they are AFK ????

This is mostly a myth that they are indeed AFK. It's not like they're going to yell in local "Yoo Hoo, I'm here" every 10 minutes or on the hour

They are there for a reason... INTEL or looking for a bit of PVP on some unsuspecting pup

So onto point 2: Why are they disliked?

Just refer back to the myth that everyone "assumes" they're AFK.

Psychologically, they stop others from undocking & ratting, mining, etc.. because "Oh No, a Neutral is in system and we can't see him".

Now the cloaker hasn't physically stopped anyone from doing what they normally do, they're relying purely on their presence in the system & the fact they can't been seen to disrupt others from carrying on as normal.

So why is it disliked? Ask those that are afraid to undock...

There are plenty of tactics out there to catch a cloaker - just depends on whether you're a wolf or a sheep

Risk v Reward people.. & don't fly what you can't afford to lose

I actually have been using API maps to get intel for remote systems and I can't really vouch for reliability. It got us some kills, it got us some losses (freshly setup gatecamp that hasn't registered yet). Also, the ingame interface for that is really clunky but I guess in terms of EVE it's a feature.

I guess ramp up the reward, maybe the new exploration thing could make things more interesting and profitable. People put up with risk in wormholes because of rewards.

Still, with local or without local you can't ifx stupid. Like a Kronos undocking to bump a pretending-to-AFK Tempest out of redock range and aggressing on station. Yes, it ended exactly like one may think it ended - one very dead Kronos, one very happy fleet.

I don't want to see cloaking changed at all, its like people saying change cloaking just because they go in over their heads and cannot deal with it, the suggestion I gave earlier was to force log off after 4 hours on no activity.

I do understand why people AFK cloak for area denial and to get the person complacent to then gank them, no one can ignore that it is virtually impossible to get a clever on the ball pilot jumping into system. My difference with some people here is that I do not see any issue with those people getting away, hell they deserve too, but it is frustrating, I have been on both side of that by the way, well you know I have! Which is why I suggsted removing that stupid two second delay from being reported in local to actually arrive and be able to do something.

And I really think CCP should create a new region with no local and no intel and see how it develops.

Certainly without local, I won't be in 0.0 for ISK at current levels, though I would most probably go for fun, increasing the reward might make that a more serious effort!