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Trebor Daehdoow for CSM8 - The Proven Performer - http://bit.ly/vote-trebor

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Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#581 - 2013-04-10 09:38:35 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
Trebor Woodhead, I have respect for your work on the CSM, and you deserve to get re-elected, but when it comes to RP related stuff/perspective, I hope you'll stay silent because I seriously think that you have no clue what you are talking about.

OK, I'll give you credit for coming up with a question I didn't expect.

I don't believe I have ever expressed strong views on EVE-related RP, but just so you know, I played in many of the early Society for Interactive Literature LARPs back in the mid-80s.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#582 - 2013-04-11 00:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Friggz wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I really hope you don't get into this CSM. Trammel was a catastrophe and killed UO, i'm not interested in having that experience again.


Every time someone brings this up I keep thinking about post 9/11 and how politicians were claiming other politicians wanted to 'surrender to terrorism.' It's the type of claim that's so hyperbolic and misguided that you can't imagine anyone would actually believe it, yet they do.



Confirming that "safe heavens" don't kill sandbox mmo-rpg games, that Trammel&Felucca didn't acually happened in Ultima, and that Trebor doesn't advocate the disgusting themepark agenda in EvE.

It's all one big conspiracy.

The Tears Must Flow
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#583 - 2013-04-11 00:17:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
My opinion was based on your positions and comments on stuff I consider to be RP related on the Votematch site. Perhaps my sampling of you has been too small, but I think you'll get elected anyway, and I prefer to spend my time in researching promising candidates that might not make it.

Good to know you have RP experience, but I don't think that has translated well into the MMO(RPG) that is EVE.
But I guess I already said something like that.

Carry on.Cool

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#584 - 2013-04-11 00:23:03 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
My opinion was based on your positions and comments on stuff I consider to be RP related on the Votematch site, Perhaps my sampling of you has been too small, but I think you'll get elected anyway, and I prefer to spend my time in researching promising candidates that might not make it.

Good to know you have RP experience, but I don't think that has translated well into the MMO(RPG) that is EVE.
But I guess I already said something like that.

Carry on.Cool


Trebor just got treborized.

Excuse me, as I need to go call up my Buddhist friend.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#585 - 2013-04-11 00:27:43 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Vaju Enki wrote:
Friggz wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I really hope you don't get into this CSM. Trammel was a catastrophe and killed UO, i'm not interested in having that experience again.


Every time someone brings this up I keep thinking about post 9/11 and how politicians were claiming other politicians wanted to 'surrender to terrorism.' It's the type of claim that's so hyperbolic and misguided that you can't imagine anyone would actually believe it, yet they do.



Confirming that "safe heavens" don't kill sandbox mmo-rpg games, that Trammel&Felucca didn't acually happened in Ultima, and that Trebor doesn't advocate the disgusting themepark agenda in EvE.

It's all one big conspiracy.


Considering the game company in charge of UO made that decision and not player representatives, you seem to be a bit overly paranoid.

You are just wasting energy railing against Trebor over your fears. CCP will make the direction of where to take or what to do with the game.

Just to spark your paranoia, perhaps CCP sees the new comers from Dust and recent improvements a bigger base, then your overly paranoid, oh help us save UO which butt hurted us crusade people.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#586 - 2013-04-11 09:37:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
So After that I do have a question for Trebor, should Everyone in EvE go insane and Riverini is voted in, how do you think you would work with someone who describes everyone else who will be at that table as "simply came out of the woodwork recently when they felt they had enough backing from their alliance buddies"?

I'll do everything I can to help him -- and every other member of CSM8 -- be as productive and constructive as possible. If he chooses not to try to make positive contributions, I (and everyone else) will firewall him off.

Trolls on the CSM find out very quickly that (a) this is serious business, so nobody has time for their bullsh*t, and (b) you need the help of your colleagues to get things done. The end result is that trolls either grow up or go sit in the corner and sulk (lobbing the occasional lump of their own feces at the adults).

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#587 - 2013-04-11 23:26:46 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


So After that I do have a question for Trebor, should Everyone in EvE go insane and Riverini is voted in, how do you think you would work with someone who describes everyone else who will be at that table as "simply came out of the woodwork recently when they felt they had enough backing from their alliance buddies"?


I thought they would work together, since the election system Trebor wanted, would reduce the number of people from alliances from being block voted in. Surely Riverini would appreciate what Trebor was trying do, and they would both show each other mutual respect.

You just trying to split allies Frying Doom, and weaken trebor?

You should try to strengthen trebor and ask him instead if he will be able to work with many null sec block candidates, or does he hope they go AFK during the CSM, so he can pretty much ignore them. Or perhaps he will just redo history if too many null sec people make the CSM and try to change the vote, instead of working with them.

Also another question for Trebor, so you can theoretically throw poop in the Icelandic headquarters then?

Or does CCP eterne ban you for such activities while there?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Tcar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#588 - 2013-04-12 02:03:35 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Or perhaps he will just redo history if too many null sec people make the CSM and try to change the vote, instead of working with them.


. . . and here I thought you meant something else. . .

http://evenews24.com/2012/04/03/the-smoking-bottle-the-mittanis-downfall-was-well-planned-and-executed/
Frying Doom
#589 - 2013-04-12 02:07:41 UTC
Tcar wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Or perhaps he will just redo history if too many null sec people make the CSM and try to change the vote, instead of working with them.


. . . and here I thought you meant something else. . .

http://evenews24.com/2012/04/03/the-smoking-bottle-the-mittanis-downfall-was-well-planned-and-executed/

Nice work of fiction, I had forgotten about that one.

Their was of course no conspiracy.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
None ofthe Above
#590 - 2013-04-12 02:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Tcar wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Or perhaps he will just redo history if too many null sec people make the CSM and try to change the vote, instead of working with them.


. . . and here I thought you meant something else. . .

http://evenews24.com/2012/04/03/the-smoking-bottle-the-mittanis-downfall-was-well-planned-and-executed/


What evenews24 failed to grasp is that Trebor secretly masterminded it all (and by extension Poetic, since we all know the are they same person). Making this entirely germane to this conversation... or my tinfoil hat is on too tight again.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#591 - 2013-04-12 04:12:08 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Their was of course no conspiracy.


Exactly what we want you to believe. How do you think we got that Black Ops jump range increase? But I've said too much....
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#592 - 2013-04-12 09:41:43 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Also another question for Trebor, so you can theoretically throw poop in the Icelandic headquarters then?

While physical poop is rarely an issue, veritable fusillades of metaphorical poop splatter the walls on a regular basis.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Frying Doom
#593 - 2013-04-12 10:34:01 UTC
Friggz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Their was of course no conspiracy.


Exactly what we want you to believe. How do you think we got that Black Ops jump range increase? But I've said too much....

Shhhh, you will give it away.

As I said before, there was NO conspiracy, and claims to the opposite are of course the ramblings of the mentally unstable[1].








[1] For definition of mentally unstable please see Riverini.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#594 - 2013-04-12 10:37:57 UTC
So are you prepared to acknowledge yet that STV was a horrible idea, that has caused the most boring election in the History of EvE, and that CCPs voter education plans also seem to have fallen down a dark pit?

Well I think CSM8 first order of business is once again the White paper and the Voting system. Another one of these elections and no one will be bothered voting, not even the GoonsLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#595 - 2013-04-12 14:53:04 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
So are you prepared to acknowledge yet that STV was a horrible idea, that has caused the most boring election in the History of EvE, and that CCPs voter education plans also seem to have fallen down a dark pit?

Well I think CSM8 first order of business is once again the White paper and the Voting system. Another one of these elections and no one will be bothered voting, not even the GoonsLol


Frying, I understand you are going to complain about the results no matter what they are and perform the mental gymnastics necessary to assure yourself you were right all along, regardless of what the evidence might actually show.

But you know, you might want to wait until that evidence is available first so it's not quite as obvious. I'm just saying.
Frying Doom
#596 - 2013-04-12 23:56:51 UTC
Friggz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So are you prepared to acknowledge yet that STV was a horrible idea, that has caused the most boring election in the History of EvE, and that CCPs voter education plans also seem to have fallen down a dark pit?

Well I think CSM8 first order of business is once again the White paper and the Voting system. Another one of these elections and no one will be bothered voting, not even the GoonsLol


Frying, I understand you are going to complain about the results no matter what they are and perform the mental gymnastics necessary to assure yourself you were right all along, regardless of what the evidence might actually show.

But you know, you might want to wait until that evidence is available first so it's not quite as obvious. I'm just saying.

If the percentage of voter turn out is higher then it is a success, anything else is just wrapping up a crap and calling it a present.

Even with CCP stepping up a little in the last 8 hours, I still don't think it will be a higher percentage than last year.

But I will wait for the evidence on the 27th, and then start pointing fingers.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#597 - 2013-04-13 05:17:08 UTC
Tcar wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Or perhaps he will just redo history if too many null sec people make the CSM and try to change the vote, instead of working with them.


. . . and here I thought you meant something else. . .

http://evenews24.com/2012/04/03/the-smoking-bottle-the-mittanis-downfall-was-well-planned-and-executed/


Yeah, I can see how my words would trail to that.

To be fair, Riverini might make me get all tin foily, but he seems to fail.

Trebor is just a victim of his own success.

One day he will fail though, and we will no longer need to troll him.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#598 - 2013-04-14 01:41:27 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
But I will wait for the evidence on the 27th, and then start pointing fingers.

Nah, feel free to point away... I can always use the bumps Twisted

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Frying Doom
#599 - 2013-04-14 02:27:27 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
But I will wait for the evidence on the 27th, and then start pointing fingers.

Nah, feel free to point away... I can always use the bumps Twisted

Well out of curiosity, one of you fellow CSM 7 stated
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
The bonus is of course that this will also show that the STV system was a huge mistake, oh and Null might actually get fixed, along with POSs.

A huge mistake that successfully escorts two of the four most problematic legacy problems into Fixedville? Oh i get it, it's like where you say the opposite..

PS: Dont worry, we'll get one and half of the other two


What were "the four most problematic legacy problems"?

And do you have any idea what 2 or 1 1/2 he claims this STV system fixed?

CCP Xhagen wrote:


- Problem one: voter turnout. I think we've established how we can address educating the voters. The actual act of voting is something that I want to keep out of the client, but I'll push for a solution to the problem where opening eve pages (forums, eve gate, etc.) in the ingame browser does not have you logged in there that give us a better idea of how the voters (not all EVE players, voters) want the CSM to be.

- Problem two: representation on the CSM. CCP Veritas pointed out the error in my thinking, what I want is not actually fair representation of ALL EVE players, but of THOSE WHO VOTE (it follows from there that the more people that vote, the better representation we get). The current voting system is sufficient, but there are many vastly better systems out there.

So, I want to bring your attention to this one (thanks CCP Veritas!), the 'Schulze method'. Basically a preference ranking method of individual choices. It would also mean that people could put between one and fourteen people in a ranked order. It does not transfer any votes, it simply ranks the candidates based on how many people choose them and in what order.

- Problem three: bloc voting. Not a problem in my eyes. If large numbers of people organize themselves, they will get better results than those who do not.

- Problem four: designating chairs for specific things on the CSM. I still maintain my opinion of this not being a good approach to the CSM. Again I state that I want things to come from the players. If CCP starts to dictate who runs, for what, who says what and things like that, the CSM stops serving its purpose. If there are 5 null sec people are elected, that is a message in itself.

Anything I'm forgetting?

As CCP Xhagen could only identify 2 that he considered a problem. Voter Apathy and Representation.

As all I can see is an increase in voter apathy and an increase in the wasted votes as we can no longer count abstains or people who would have voted but did not due to the complexity of an STV system or the fact that campaigning seems to be at an all time low (Due to the preference voting of an STV system and the fact so many candidates are similar).

But the CSM will be more representative of those who actually decide to brave the STV system and decide to vote.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#600 - 2013-04-14 04:21:15 UTC
STV absolutely fixes #2, as it will definitely ensure a better representation of the actual voters, especially compared to FPTP.

Of course, it avoids a trickier question - will an accurate representation of the current voter base produce a varied, desirable CSM? Unfortunately, that question never got asked, I presume because the voter apathy issue being solved would have taken care of that. It's just pretty typical CCP to tackle the easy part first (the voting system, a solution that can be solved with code) while letting the difficult part (fixing voter apathy) slip to the wayside.

If this would have been handled 100% properly, #1 would have been the prime focus before anyone even looked at #2 (unless the attempt to solve #1 showed that #2 was the problem, which I strongly doubt), but despite every effort to put CCP onto that path in Xhagen's voting reform thread, it never took. It's situations like this that make me wish old CSM communiques and whatnot would be removed from NDA, as I'd kill to see how much talking about this even went on behind the scenes, let alone what direction it went in and who drove it.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["