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Bitter vet boredom
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Velicitia
XS Tech
#41 - 2013-04-11 15:45:57 UTC
Ninder wrote:
There's something to be said for the wide eyed hubris of new players in random corps that keeps you going when you can't quite bring yourself to quit yet


Not so sure about "hubris" coming out of newbies in random corps ... but then again, I've not flown with many recently.

perhaps "optimism"?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#42 - 2013-04-11 16:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Velicitia wrote:
Ninder wrote:
There's something to be said for the wide eyed hubris of new players in random corps that keeps you going when you can't quite bring yourself to quit yet


Not so sure about "hubris" coming out of newbies in random corps ... but then again, I've not flown with many recently.

perhaps "optimism"?


I noticed that to. It kind of made me imagine Mr. Hyde playing Eve. Or Mitani when he first started.
Ronan Hunter
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-04-11 16:20:37 UTC
I am the same as other vets. I only play the market, switch skills, chat. I swim in money. I could do everything, but I log in less and less. I realized, that I am far gone already. I have no interest in Eve any more. It is just not so easy to let go the nice Chars and all what I built up for years and I will miss some old mates.

The game became too destructive and boring for me. Many Eve players, who are hardcore players, are predestined to become RL cyber warriors, stock dealers or soldiers. They are young psychopaths and certainly belong to the group of gamers (shooters, war games), who have a lower EQ than average population. There are studies, which show, that new generation of young man, who grow up with these games lose their abitility to think empathically for other humans. It is not that it makes a person a mass murder. It is not that bad. I always played Eve, because I am a curious person. Playing mindgames with psychopaths and waste hours of time was not a problem for me. I learned a lot, always saw it as testing field for things, which would be in RL really dangerous. But I also see the big picture. The USA is heading into becoming a facist regime. People like Eve players, be it the clueless lemmings in blobs or the Mitanis, both are perfectly conditioned to live in such a world. Nobody can deny the strong bounds between these worlds. Be it EA and DRM or google for Mark Mazzetti/Democracy now, if you want to learn more about this topic. We entered an Orwellian world. Btw. it is a little obsurd, that I miss the long fights in Eve, not the psy ops, staged fights, but the real decisive battles over an empire rising or falling or a real multi-bilion solo kill, when the dice were finally played and battle on. Nowatimes it would take too long for me. I have no more this patience to waste time for mostly nothing, like felt 99 %. Above all, I played Eve to see, who can still be a good character in a world, which makes it so easy to become a thief or just yay-sayer.

Another aspect is this: Playing PC games for hours a day/week/years is not healthy. I had an injury last year and gained weight fast, had worse health than ever. I felt, I was too young for this. So I learned, how to cure it and what is good for me. Humans are not made to play video games, to sit many hours a day infront of a PC. Pysical inactivity is a bigger killer than suggar or fat. It became an epidemy in USA. There are estimations in 2030 obesity could affect 42 % of all Americans. Many obese people get diabetes and then they need drugs the rest of their life. So I do not want to sit any more in my spare time for too long infront of a computer.



Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#44 - 2013-04-11 16:25:42 UTC
I think wormhole exploration, when it first came out was the most fun I've had with the game. Then the wormholes all filled up, and that changed the whole "explore unknown space" paradigm. I'm waiting for CCP to have another neat idea like in Apocrypha.
rofflesausage
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-04-11 16:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: rofflesausage
Kojee wrote:
My 10 year EVE anniversary is fast approaching. Over the last couple of years my general participation in EVE has steadily declined. Why? I'm not really sure, but I think I've discovered that I'm more of a 'social' gamer than I realized; by that I mean I would rather play with friends or others than by myself


I know what you mean, but 10 years is a long time. I'd be willing to bet in this time you're not the same person as you were 10 years ago. Have you settled down? Got kids now? Have a house?....and so on....

10 years ago playing Eve for a few hours each night was easy. Today I'm lucky if I get that in a week.

Bitter vet didn't happen. Life happened.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2013-04-11 17:45:53 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
I think wormhole exploration, when it first came out was the most fun I've had with the game. Then the wormholes all filled up, and that changed the whole "explore unknown space" paradigm. I'm waiting for CCP to have another neat idea like in Apocrypha.


The problem with "the thrill comes from the new" syndrome is that the company can never be profitable because they are always having to pour huge sums of money into creating new, and ever growing sums of money into maintaining the existing.



Look at Six Flags amusement parks and compare to Disneyland.

Six Flags, the thrills come from riding the newest, biggest, baddest, roughest, etc. A park opens a new ride, and the thrill seekers pack the park. Next year, no new ride, lower attendance. Two years in a row with nothing new attendance falls further. Six Flags got onto a treadmill where they had to spend $10 million a year per park, on new rides, just to maintain the current attendance.

And as their ride count went from 4-5 coasters a park, toward 10 coasters per park, the operation and maintenance budgets doubled.

So, you're spending more money operating and maintaining, and huge amounts of money adding new, and just maintaining your current revenue.

Six Flags went bankrupt, wiped out share holder value and wrote off huge chunk of their debt they'd run up all those years of running in place.




Compare to Disneyland. Disney has not added a new major attraction to Disneyland in a decade. Okay, okay, the rethemed and reopend the sub ride. Got new movies for star tours. But really that is about it for Disneyland park. The rides aren't about cheap thrills that get old quickly, forcing them to constantly add new, bigger, more thrilling. The rides are high quality, well themed, enjoyable, and REPEATABLE.

Instead, Disney sunk the money into building a second park in the old parking lot. And 12 years later, despite prices increasing 3x the rate of inflation (prices are double what they were a decade ago, even though other prices are up only about 30% in that time) attendance to the Disneyland resort is more than double what it was.

4x the income, less than 2x the operating costs, and permanent increase in attendance that doesn't require them to stay on the forever treadmill of always adding something new just to keep running in place.

Disney parks have never been more profitable.




So, CCP has the choice of fixing the game mechanics so the basic game experience is fun, exciting and repeatable without the need to constantly add new.... OR, CCP could ignore the basic mechanics, and as you suggest, jump on that treadmill of constantly running in place, forced to keep adding new, just to maintain the current player base.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#47 - 2013-04-11 18:15:42 UTC
Virtual environments don't have near the upkeep costs that roller coasters do. Disney theme parks were not just built in place whole, they were constructed over a period of decades, constantly adding new area's and options. They will continue to do so if the current content becomes stale to their regular customers. That's part of the magic there, you can't see everything in a week or 2, you have to go back several times and each time you can see new things.

Is Eve big enough? maybe, maybe not. But Disneyworld is not really a good comparison, apples and oranges I think.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#48 - 2013-04-11 19:31:17 UTC
Ronan Hunter wrote:
I am the same as other vets. I only play the market, switch skills, chat. I swim in money. I could do everything, but I log in less and less. I realized, that I am far gone already. I have no interest in Eve any more. It is just not so easy to let go the nice Chars and all what I built up for years and I will miss some old mates.

The game became too destructive and boring for me. Many Eve players, who are hardcore players, are predestined to become RL cyber warriors, stock dealers or soldiers. They are young psychopaths and certainly belong to the group of gamers (shooters, war games), who have a lower EQ than average population. There are studies, which show, that new generation of young man, who grow up with these games lose their abitility to think empathically for other humans. It is not that it makes a person a mass murder. It is not that bad. I always played Eve, because I am a curious person. Playing mindgames with psychopaths and waste hours of time was not a problem for me. I learned a lot, always saw it as testing field for things, which would be in RL really dangerous. But I also see the big picture. The USA is heading into becoming a facist regime. People like Eve players, be it the clueless lemmings in blobs or the Mitanis, both are perfectly conditioned to live in such a world. Nobody can deny the strong bounds between these worlds. Be it EA and DRM or google for Mark Mazzetti/Democracy now, if you want to learn more about this topic. We entered an Orwellian world. Btw. it is a little obsurd, that I miss the long fights in Eve, not the psy ops, staged fights, but the real decisive battles over an empire rising or falling or a real multi-bilion solo kill, when the dice were finally played and battle on. Nowatimes it would take too long for me. I have no more this patience to waste time for mostly nothing, like felt 99 %. Above all, I played Eve to see, who can still be a good character in a world, which makes it so easy to become a thief or just yay-sayer.

Another aspect is this: Playing PC games for hours a day/week/years is not healthy. I had an injury last year and gained weight fast, had worse health than ever. I felt, I was too young for this. So I learned, how to cure it and what is good for me. Humans are not made to play video games, to sit many hours a day infront of a PC. Pysical inactivity is a bigger killer than suggar or fat. It became an epidemy in USA. There are estimations in 2030 obesity could affect 42 % of all Americans. Many obese people get diabetes and then they need drugs the rest of their life. So I do not want to sit any more in my spare time for too long infront of a computer.


Wow.

I have to disagree with your first premise.

You are definitely not "the same as other vets."

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
flakeys
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-04-11 19:33:22 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Ronan Hunter wrote:
I am the same as other vets. I only play the market, switch skills, chat. I swim in money. I could do everything, but I log in less and less. I realized, that I am far gone already. I have no interest in Eve any more. It is just not so easy to let go the nice Chars and all what I built up for years and I will miss some old mates.

The game became too destructive and boring for me. Many Eve players, who are hardcore players, are predestined to become RL cyber warriors, stock dealers or soldiers. They are young psychopaths and certainly belong to the group of gamers (shooters, war games), who have a lower EQ than average population. There are studies, which show, that new generation of young man, who grow up with these games lose their abitility to think empathically for other humans. It is not that it makes a person a mass murder. It is not that bad. I always played Eve, because I am a curious person. Playing mindgames with psychopaths and waste hours of time was not a problem for me. I learned a lot, always saw it as testing field for things, which would be in RL really dangerous. But I also see the big picture. The USA is heading into becoming a facist regime. People like Eve players, be it the clueless lemmings in blobs or the Mitanis, both are perfectly conditioned to live in such a world. Nobody can deny the strong bounds between these worlds. Be it EA and DRM or google for Mark Mazzetti/Democracy now, if you want to learn more about this topic. We entered an Orwellian world. Btw. it is a little obsurd, that I miss the long fights in Eve, not the psy ops, staged fights, but the real decisive battles over an empire rising or falling or a real multi-bilion solo kill, when the dice were finally played and battle on. Nowatimes it would take too long for me. I have no more this patience to waste time for mostly nothing, like felt 99 %. Above all, I played Eve to see, who can still be a good character in a world, which makes it so easy to become a thief or just yay-sayer.

Another aspect is this: Playing PC games for hours a day/week/years is not healthy. I had an injury last year and gained weight fast, had worse health than ever. I felt, I was too young for this. So I learned, how to cure it and what is good for me. Humans are not made to play video games, to sit many hours a day infront of a PC. Pysical inactivity is a bigger killer than suggar or fat. It became an epidemy in USA. There are estimations in 2030 obesity could affect 42 % of all Americans. Many obese people get diabetes and then they need drugs the rest of their life. So I do not want to sit any more in my spare time for too long infront of a computer.


Wow.

I have to disagree with your first premise.

You are definitely not "the same as other vets."


Well , he's the same as me in that part that's for sure Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-04-11 19:47:45 UTC
I've been playing for 4-5 years now, I've taken probably 3 major breaks from EVE. When I start getting meh about EVE I find it best to just remove myself from it for a few months. Stop reading the forums(it's been almost two months since I quit so I must be on my way back haha), stop updating skills, play some other games, hang out with friends/family a little more, stuff like that.

Then, if you feel like playing some EVE after awhile, come back to it. If not then I guess your done with EVE. S'all good.

Also, Ronan Hunter........WTF dude.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#51 - 2013-04-11 19:48:31 UTC
flakeys wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Ronan Hunter wrote:
I am the same as other vets. I only play the market, switch skills, chat. I swim in money. I could do everything, but I log in less and less. I realized, that I am far gone already. I have no interest in Eve any more. It is just not so easy to let go the nice Chars and all what I built up for years and I will miss some old mates.

The game became too destructive and boring for me. Many Eve players, who are hardcore players, are predestined to become RL cyber warriors, stock dealers or soldiers. They are young psychopaths and certainly belong to the group of gamers (shooters, war games), who have a lower EQ than average population. There are studies, which show, that new generation of young man, who grow up with these games lose their abitility to think empathically for other humans. It is not that it makes a person a mass murder. It is not that bad. I always played Eve, because I am a curious person. Playing mindgames with psychopaths and waste hours of time was not a problem for me. I learned a lot, always saw it as testing field for things, which would be in RL really dangerous. But I also see the big picture. The USA is heading into becoming a facist regime. People like Eve players, be it the clueless lemmings in blobs or the Mitanis, both are perfectly conditioned to live in such a world. Nobody can deny the strong bounds between these worlds. Be it EA and DRM or google for Mark Mazzetti/Democracy now, if you want to learn more about this topic. We entered an Orwellian world. Btw. it is a little obsurd, that I miss the long fights in Eve, not the psy ops, staged fights, but the real decisive battles over an empire rising or falling or a real multi-bilion solo kill, when the dice were finally played and battle on. Nowatimes it would take too long for me. I have no more this patience to waste time for mostly nothing, like felt 99 %. Above all, I played Eve to see, who can still be a good character in a world, which makes it so easy to become a thief or just yay-sayer.

Another aspect is this: Playing PC games for hours a day/week/years is not healthy. I had an injury last year and gained weight fast, had worse health than ever. I felt, I was too young for this. So I learned, how to cure it and what is good for me. Humans are not made to play video games, to sit many hours a day infront of a PC. Pysical inactivity is a bigger killer than suggar or fat. It became an epidemy in USA. There are estimations in 2030 obesity could affect 42 % of all Americans. Many obese people get diabetes and then they need drugs the rest of their life. So I do not want to sit any more in my spare time for too long infront of a computer.


Wow.

I have to disagree with your first premise.

You are definitely not "the same as other vets."


Well , he's the same as me in that part that's for sure Blink


I sure hope you meant the first paragraph and not the rambling second. :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
flakeys
Doomheim
#52 - 2013-04-11 20:55:40 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
flakeys wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Ronan Hunter wrote:
I am the same as other vets. I only play the market, switch skills, chat. I swim in money. I could do everything, but I log in less and less. I realized, that I am far gone already. I have no interest in Eve any more. It is just not so easy to let go the nice Chars and all what I built up for years and I will miss some old mates.

The game became too destructive and boring for me. Many Eve players, who are hardcore players, are predestined to become RL cyber warriors, stock dealers or soldiers. They are young psychopaths and certainly belong to the group of gamers (shooters, war games), who have a lower EQ than average population. There are studies, which show, that new generation of young man, who grow up with these games lose their abitility to think empathically for other humans. It is not that it makes a person a mass murder. It is not that bad. I always played Eve, because I am a curious person. Playing mindgames with psychopaths and waste hours of time was not a problem for me. I learned a lot, always saw it as testing field for things, which would be in RL really dangerous. But I also see the big picture. The USA is heading into becoming a facist regime. People like Eve players, be it the clueless lemmings in blobs or the Mitanis, both are perfectly conditioned to live in such a world. Nobody can deny the strong bounds between these worlds. Be it EA and DRM or google for Mark Mazzetti/Democracy now, if you want to learn more about this topic. We entered an Orwellian world. Btw. it is a little obsurd, that I miss the long fights in Eve, not the psy ops, staged fights, but the real decisive battles over an empire rising or falling or a real multi-bilion solo kill, when the dice were finally played and battle on. Nowatimes it would take too long for me. I have no more this patience to waste time for mostly nothing, like felt 99 %. Above all, I played Eve to see, who can still be a good character in a world, which makes it so easy to become a thief or just yay-sayer.

Another aspect is this: Playing PC games for hours a day/week/years is not healthy. I had an injury last year and gained weight fast, had worse health than ever. I felt, I was too young for this. So I learned, how to cure it and what is good for me. Humans are not made to play video games, to sit many hours a day infront of a PC. Pysical inactivity is a bigger killer than suggar or fat. It became an epidemy in USA. There are estimations in 2030 obesity could affect 42 % of all Americans. Many obese people get diabetes and then they need drugs the rest of their life. So I do not want to sit any more in my spare time for too long infront of a computer.


Wow.

I have to disagree with your first premise.

You are definitely not "the same as other vets."


Well , he's the same as me in that part that's for sure Blink


I sure hope you meant the first paragraph and not the rambling second. :)



I meant the first paragraph:)

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-04-13 00:51:18 UTC
I only enjoy PvP. So for me my favorite 'career' is my current one, that of fleet pilot. Snowflake roles are the best- scout/tackle/EWAR.

Anything else I grudgingly do in this game is to keep my hangar full of combat ships or support my corp's wallet.

But I log in to find a fleet. If I can't find someone to fly with in short order, I do what little industry I'm capable of, then find a game with better PvE to play
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#54 - 2013-04-13 07:37:45 UTC
Start an ISBoxer army and produce both PVP and isk, but more importantly...Forum-tears, delicious.

Damn nature, you scary!
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-04-13 08:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Shao Huang
I will respond with all the ignorance, hubris and optimism of a two week player.

You require narrative, should you wish to continue playing. Consider the following from 'The Hero With a Thousand Faces':

Quote:
A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.
That is Campbell's own summary in which he skips over several parts.

Where are you in that journey? Typically the 'return' is under valued. The immortal becomes a bodhisattva. The philosopher returns to the cave to liberate others. Or they transcend, leaving this realm altogether. Such a return would change the basic Darwinian meme of the game for you and for those that encounter you. I do not mean charity. It would require a great deal more creativity than that. It is equally possible that 'return' for you means returning from the game itself. In my experience, depending upon the degree of immersion in the game, this involves a metaphorical level of all the phases of 'death and dying' whether you continue in the game or leave. Some transformation of this nature is likely required in any case as doing more of what you are already doing will have diminishing returns.

I am attempting a Musashi/Don Quixote narrative myself as a way of learning the game, meeting interesting people, etc. I am on the opposite end of the journey from you. This narrative involves both a level of grandiosity and embodying the fool from me. No idea if it will work or not. The experiment itself is amusing, qualitative rather than quantitative in nature, so it does not matter to me. (See the PvPilgrimage thread. Not sure how to link it.)

The extrinsic rewards of the game no longer have appeal for you, if they ever truly did. In this case turn to the intrinsic. As those diminish, become an elder, responsible for what you know and free from the burdens of attainment.

This is the counsel of an ignorant, foolish noob, such as it is. I enjoyed the OP and this thread.

Private sig. Do not read.
Onyx Nyx
The Veldspar Protectorate
#56 - 2013-04-13 08:32:22 UTC
Personally, I have become somewhat of a mentor to a new player by equipping him with knowledge instead of showering him with isk and\or ships.

There is a sense of nostalgia for me as well because how vastly different EVE is now compared to how it was in beta and back in 2003. I had forgotten what it felt like to experience the game for the first time and so far this has been really rewarding for me so I think I will continue to mentor new players to some extent one way or another.

I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.

  • Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/)
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-04-13 17:22:57 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
I dont know how on earth anyone plays this game solo.

I have been playing solo now for 3 years. I luv it.

Friends? Why?

Everyone is always crapping "Don't trust anyone in EVE". Well after awhile it becomes a tiring mantra. Why would I want to play in any corp if the guy next to me is always looking to screw me over?
Rhedea
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#58 - 2013-04-13 18:13:39 UTC
Vet, was bitter, got over it, just wish I had more time to play. Sad
RazorDreamz
Chaotic Dynamics
#59 - 2013-04-13 18:15:31 UTC
There with ya. Been here since beta.

But if you have a good group of bro's to play with things are ok.

Look at my corp history and you'll see I was in m0o for a day. One guy wanted to hire the other with veto did want new blood...

Anyway played with Zap and and rest, was a fun time. Played with them a few months before the inv...

The social aspect definitely makes this game. Had a great time playing with EXE before they even got an alliance going. Merc life is fun.

Stick with it, or convo me and I can help find you a place depending on what you want. Lots of room especially for us old-timers.

o/
MR DEMOS
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#60 - 2013-04-13 20:05:30 UTC
Approching my 7 th year in Eve.... Next month... All my Friends except a few are gone as well... Seems we all sit around and talk about better days when things weren't nerfed or broken or seriously imbalanced.... New stuff.... Fluff thats all it is... Mechanics are pretty much all the same few changes.... Honestly spending time with freinds is number one priority if no one is on i tend to log off... Wromhol'in is interesting....