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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1621 - 2013-04-11 19:58:11 UTC
Phoenix Torp wrote:

And then we come back to the issue of the damage applied effectively. I was talking about kiting with the second most faster ship. With that fitting you lose Megas. Think in the falloff of the projectiles and the lasers and then think in having the same EHP that those... you won't do so much damage as they.


Kiting with blasters is like swordfighting with bayonets.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1622 - 2013-04-11 19:58:34 UTC
fukier wrote:

not enough pg left for a nuet?


7 highslots.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1623 - 2013-04-11 19:59:18 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
fukier wrote:

not enough pg left for a nuet?


7 highslots.


yeah... i got that mixed up...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1624 - 2013-04-11 20:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
NVM, comment I responded to was edited
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1625 - 2013-04-11 20:01:23 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
What?

[Megathron, Blaster]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

That is how you make a blaster Mega if you really want to. 1047 DPS before drones, 127k EHP.


i like the fit... though i usually tend to fill in the ex resistance hole with either a rig or drop the 3rd mag stab for a hardner...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Galileo Black
#1626 - 2013-04-11 20:01:36 UTC
Galileo Black wrote:

Hyperion:

Here's the FIXED Hyperion. The FIXED Hyperion keeps its 8 turrets, exchanged 5% damage for 5% RoF, and keeps its armor repair bonus. It also gains a heavy drone in both bandwidth and bay. The name of the game here is gross and inefficient. More guns need more cap, the rate of fire bonus only extenuates that, but this gains a substantial amount of DPS.

If anything, I'm worried this is too strong, but it should be an extremely fun ship to use. Hope you guys approve.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Rate of Fire
+7.5% Armor Repair amount

Slot layout: 8H(+0), 5M, 6L(+0); 8 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 17000 PWG(+1250), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 7500 / 8250 (+250) / 8000 (-500)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7500 (+300) / 1250s / 6
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 125(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 (+1) Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 490 (+5)


Megathron:

Moving to a more attack role, the Megathron gains a 10% damage bonus to 6 turrets, added mobility, and keeps the utility high. Loses some EHP, and a drone.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Large Hybrid Damage
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 13500(-2000) PWG, 575 CPU(+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5625(+0) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-25) / 100(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)



Basically, hyperion becomes slow, tanky, dps powerhouse. mega becomes quick, utility, efficiend dps projector w/ tracking bonus and possible shield tank. It is not an amarr ship, it doesn't get 8 lows.
-----------------------------------------------
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1627 - 2013-04-11 20:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
fukier wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
What?

[Megathron, Blaster]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

That is how you make a blaster Mega if you really want to. 1047 DPS before drones, 127k EHP.


i like the fit... though i usually tend to fill in the ex resistance hole with either a rig or drop the 3rd mag stab for a hardner...


I wouldn't fly it like that, but the guy I was showing it to was making 1k DPS setups.

Personally, I'd give it a balanced 5 low + DC tank. Treat it like a fleet tank, because those tanks are beefy as hell and have a good resist profile. Blasters give it enough CPU to actually do that.

The sad thing is the fleet setup's rails eat up all that CPU, and force you to use ANPs, which are impossible to overheat and slot inefficient. If the Mega had 600 base CPU it would be an extremely competitive fleet ship. Right now it is competitive in every realm but tank.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1628 - 2013-04-11 20:06:34 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Phoenix Torp wrote:

And then we come back to the issue of the damage applied effectively. I was talking about kiting with the second most faster ship. With that fitting you lose Megas. Think in the falloff of the projectiles and the lasers and then think in having the same EHP that those... you won't do so much damage as they.


Kiting with blasters is like swordfighting with bayonets.


They are the most powerful (in raw DPS) guns, at the counter of pitty falloff. If you don't follow this doctrine to kite in the optimal, the other guns will outperform you. This is the way it should be. That has been the reason why all the people say "Fix the hybrids!". And now that we have a speed bonus won't waste it to be a copy of other gun systems. It's my opinnion.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1629 - 2013-04-11 20:07:02 UTC
Grendell wrote:
kyrieee wrote:
I'm sorry Grendell but the web strength bonus is the most powerful bonus in the entire game (aside from links), giving it to an insurable T1 BS would completely upset the game balance. Perhaps not in nullsec, but certainly everywhere else.



No need for apologies, just here to have some good debate.Smile


On the web bonus topic, the bonus would at max level bring the web strength back to the original 90%. This would allow the Mega the ability to keep the target locked down and being able to properly apply dps by making tracking easier.

I'm not sure how that extra 30% to a single targeted ship would completely upset the game balance. If you could get into more details why that would cause a complete game imbalance, I'd be happy to give it a second thought. Personally I think there is no single bonus that could be considered the best as all fights in eve are situational. There a lot of great b onuses such as, EW strength, neutralizer range, warp disruptor range, etc.

Also I'm curious as to why you feel the web would have more of an impact everywhere else over null sec. An explanation here would be appreciated!


I would rarther say 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level BlinkBlinkBlink
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#1630 - 2013-04-11 20:08:05 UTC
kyrieee wrote:
Grendell wrote:
On the web bonus topic, the bonus would at max level bring the web strength back to the original 90%. This would allow the Mega the ability to keep the target locked down and being able to properly apply dps by making tracking easier.

I'm not sure how that extra 30% to a single targeted ship would completely upset the game balance. If you could get into more details why that would cause a complete game imbalance, I'd be happy to give it a second thought. Personally I think there is no single bonus that could be considered the best as all fights in eve are situational. There a lot of great b onuses such as, EW strength, neutralizer range, warp disruptor range, etc.

Also I'm curious as to why you feel the web would have more of an impact everywhere else over null sec. An explanation here would be appreciated!


Because two 90% webs brings any ship down to 2% of its speed, whereas two 60% webs brings it to 20% of its speed. They're ten times more effective, not 30% more. The issue with them is that when applying enough of them you can effectively make any ship stationary which breaks the tracking formula. In combination with target painters it means that tracking dreads can alpha even sig tanking Cruisers, like Guardians. It's a very powerful doctrine.



Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, but my web bonus was meant only for the Mega, not dreads.

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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#1631 - 2013-04-11 20:08:53 UTC
smoking gun81 wrote:
Grendell wrote:
kyrieee wrote:
I'm sorry Grendell but the web strength bonus is the most powerful bonus in the entire game (aside from links), giving it to an insurable T1 BS would completely upset the game balance. Perhaps not in nullsec, but certainly everywhere else.



No need for apologies, just here to have some good debate.Smile


On the web bonus topic, the bonus would at max level bring the web strength back to the original 90%. This would allow the Mega the ability to keep the target locked down and being able to properly apply dps by making tracking easier.

I'm not sure how that extra 30% to a single targeted ship would completely upset the game balance. If you could get into more details why that would cause a complete game imbalance, I'd be happy to give it a second thought. Personally I think there is no single bonus that could be considered the best as all fights in eve are situational. There a lot of great b onuses such as, EW strength, neutralizer range, warp disruptor range, etc.

Also I'm curious as to why you feel the web would have more of an impact everywhere else over null sec. An explanation here would be appreciated!


I would rarther say 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level BlinkBlinkBlink



That's also a good option. I think more so for the scrambler than the disruptor though.

◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1632 - 2013-04-11 20:10:07 UTC
Phoenix Torp wrote:

They are the most powerful (in raw DPS) guns, at the counter of pitty falloff. If you don't follow this doctrine to kite in the optimal, the other guns will outperform you. This is the way it should be. That has been the reason why all the people say "Fix the hybrids!". And now that we have a speed bonus won't waste it to be a copy of other gun systems. It's my opinnion.


Here's the thing about blasters. In your optimal, you're doing 100% of your DPS, and your opponent is doing something like 75% because his tracking isn't balanced around your optimal.

When you kite, you go farther out. The farther out you go, the lower your effective DPS becomes, and the higher his does. You are literally helping your enemy by trying to kite in a blaster ship. Nothing has shorter range than you, meaning your only goal is to keep range to an absolute minimum, maximizing your advantage.

The only ships that kite with blasters have 50% optimal bonuses and run Null, kiting smaller blaster boats specifically. It is extremely niche, and does not work on anything but the Naga and Rokh, specifically when shooting at things using medium blasters or similar. For the other 99% of EVE, and even those two ships in the other 90% of situations, it is a dumb idea.
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1633 - 2013-04-11 20:13:59 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Phoenix Torp wrote:

And then we come back to the issue of the damage applied effectively. I was talking about kiting with the second most faster ship. With that fitting you lose Megas. Think in the falloff of the projectiles and the lasers and then think in having the same EHP that those... you won't do so much damage as they.


Kiting with blasters is like swordfighting with bayonets.


Blasters
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1634 - 2013-04-11 20:18:29 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
fukier wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
What?

[Megathron, Blaster]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

That is how you make a blaster Mega if you really want to. 1047 DPS before drones, 127k EHP.


i like the fit... though i usually tend to fill in the ex resistance hole with either a rig or drop the 3rd mag stab for a hardner...


I wouldn't fly it like that, but the guy I was showing it to was making 1k DPS setups.

Personally, I'd give it a balanced 5 low + DC tank. Treat it like a fleet tank, because those tanks are beefy as hell and have a good resist profile. Blasters give it enough CPU to actually do that.

The sad thing is the fleet setup's rails eat up all that CPU, and force you to use ANPs, which are impossible to overheat and slot inefficient. If the Mega had 600 base CPU it would be an extremely competitive fleet ship. Right now it is competitive in every realm but tank.


how about a co-precessor... will that give you enough for the 425s?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1635 - 2013-04-11 20:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Torp
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Phoenix Torp wrote:

They are the most powerful (in raw DPS) guns, at the counter of pitty falloff. If you don't follow this doctrine to kite in the optimal, the other guns will outperform you. This is the way it should be. That has been the reason why all the people say "Fix the hybrids!". And now that we have a speed bonus won't waste it to be a copy of other gun systems. It's my opinnion.


Here's the thing about blasters. In your optimal, you're doing 100% of your DPS, and your opponent is doing something like 75% because his tracking isn't balanced around your optimal.

When you kite, you go farther out. The farther out you go, the lower your effective DPS becomes, and the higher his does. You are literally helping your enemy by trying to kite in a blaster ship. Nothing has shorter range than you, meaning your only goal is to keep range to an absolute minimum, maximizing your advantage.

The only ships that kite with blasters have 50% optimal bonuses and run Null, kiting smaller blaster boats specifically. It is extremely niche, and does not work on anything but the Naga and Rokh, specifically when shooting at things using medium blasters or similar. For the other 99% of EVE, and even those two ships in the other 90% of situations, it is a dumb idea.


I hope you will see my point with this comparison:

Neutron Blaster Cannon II:

Optimal: 7,2 km
Falloff: 10 km
Damage: 4,41x

Mega Pulse Laser II:

Optimal: 24km
Falloff: 8km
Damage: 3,6x

800mm Repeating Artillery II:

Optimal: 4,8 km
Falloff: 19,2 km
Damage: 3,234x

Kiting at 7,2 km will put like... 36% more damage that the projectile. Maybe 30% with the falloff bonus of the projectile as not in optimal. Being at 500m of the projectile ship will have an issue with your tracking, even with all this uber-tracking. And again, he will kite and put more damage than you with your pitty falloff.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1636 - 2013-04-11 20:19:35 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I wouldn't fly it like that, but the guy I was showing it to was making 1k DPS setups.

Personally, I'd give it a balanced 5 low + DC tank. Treat it like a fleet tank, because those tanks are beefy as hell and have a good resist profile. Blasters give it enough CPU to actually do that.

The sad thing is the fleet setup's rails eat up all that CPU, and force you to use ANPs, which are impossible to overheat and slot inefficient. If the Mega had 600 base CPU it would be an extremely competitive fleet ship. Right now it is competitive in every realm but tank.


So why would you want to fly a fleet rail mega when the Hyperion will fill that role perfectly fine?

See: http://i.imgur.com/ybjuixD.jpg

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1637 - 2013-04-11 20:21:58 UTC
fukier wrote:

how about a co-precessor... will that give you enough for the 425s?


At the cost of a low, making it a moot point - it either loses the DPS profile that makes it competitive, or loses a tank slot and ends up losing tank.
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1638 - 2013-04-11 20:22:36 UTC
Grendell wrote:
smoking gun81 wrote:
Grendell wrote:
kyrieee wrote:
I'm sorry Grendell but the web strength bonus is the most powerful bonus in the entire game (aside from links), giving it to an insurable T1 BS would completely upset the game balance. Perhaps not in nullsec, but certainly everywhere else.



No need for apologies, just here to have some good debate.Smile


On the web bonus topic, the bonus would at max level bring the web strength back to the original 90%. This would allow the Mega the ability to keep the target locked down and being able to properly apply dps by making tracking easier.

I'm not sure how that extra 30% to a single targeted ship would completely upset the game balance. If you could get into more details why that would cause a complete game imbalance, I'd be happy to give it a second thought. Personally I think there is no single bonus that could be considered the best as all fights in eve are situational. There a lot of great b onuses such as, EW strength, neutralizer range, warp disruptor range, etc.

Also I'm curious as to why you feel the web would have more of an impact everywhere else over null sec. An explanation here would be appreciated!


I would rarther say 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level BlinkBlinkBlink



That's also a good option. I think more so for the scrambler than the disruptor though.


Its just half the Arazu bonus as it would help the mega hold onto what its shooting CoolCoolCool
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1639 - 2013-04-11 20:24:49 UTC
Andski wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I wouldn't fly it like that, but the guy I was showing it to was making 1k DPS setups.

Personally, I'd give it a balanced 5 low + DC tank. Treat it like a fleet tank, because those tanks are beefy as hell and have a good resist profile. Blasters give it enough CPU to actually do that.

The sad thing is the fleet setup's rails eat up all that CPU, and force you to use ANPs, which are impossible to overheat and slot inefficient. If the Mega had 600 base CPU it would be an extremely competitive fleet ship. Right now it is competitive in every realm but tank.


So why would you want to fly a fleet rail mega when the Hyperion will fill that role perfectly fine?

See: http://i.imgur.com/ybjuixD.jpg


That actually has an inferior tank and raw DPS at shorter mid ranges than the mega fit I was toying with:

http://i.imgur.com/R1WRKTe.jpg

Though its dual tracking does give it better damage application at longer ranges. Its a tradeoff there.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1640 - 2013-04-11 20:29:24 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
What?

[Megathron, Blaster]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

That is how you make a blaster Mega if you really want to. 1047 DPS before drones, 127k EHP.


This tracks the way low sec megas usually get fit these days. But the new problem we have with the current iteration is that we get the same amount of tank we had before, but we have to have that third mag stab just to get to the dps levels of the current mega because of the drone bay nerf, all the while sacrificing that extra high slot for a neut or whatever else you want to throw in there. So really we aren't getting anything new, we're just losing that utility that made the mega actually sometimes worth choosing over a baddon or rokh or whatever other brawling BS you want to use.