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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1541 - 2013-04-11 15:34:49 UTC
Macomb wrote:
I totally understand the initiative here, to give current battleships distinctive roles.

However, please dont touch dominix... or tweak the changes a bit.

the turret nerf will make its already-horrible-dps even worse....

1200~1400 total DPS is horrible? Post changes it can still peak at 1000~1200 DPS. The only thing the Dominix needs is a bit more drone bay and more drone control range.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1542 - 2013-04-11 15:35:22 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
wallenbergaren wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Use the extra low slots and fit modules to boost your falloff.

If you want to shield tank a blaster boat with falloff bonuses, fly a Rokh.


You mean a Deimos, a blaster ship that actually has a falloff bonus?

Falloff bonuses are great for blaster boats and I agree that the Mega should have one instead of the tracking bonus.
I'm inclined to agree here. I think the Mega's bonus should be +5% ROF and +5% Falloff per level, and the slot layout should be adjusted to 7/5/7--it still gives you the ROF bonus, and the falloff bonus allows you to apply damage in a larger engagement envelope (something blasters definitely need), all while not competing with the Talos' tracking bonus. What's more, the 7/5/7 slot layout is more flexible, allowing a TC in that fifth mid if you wanted to track harder, and much more flexibility if you wanted to go with a shield-tanking/high agility fit.


+1 for fall off bonus, especially give what the TE nerf will do to blasters.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1543 - 2013-04-11 15:41:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
wallenbergaren wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Use the extra low slots and fit modules to boost your falloff.

If you want to shield tank a blaster boat with falloff bonuses, fly a Rokh.


You mean a Deimos, a blaster ship that actually has a falloff bonus?

Falloff bonuses are great for blaster boats and I agree that the Mega should have one instead of the tracking bonus.
I'm inclined to agree here. I think the Mega's bonus should be +5% ROF and +5% Falloff per level, and the slot layout should be adjusted to 7/5/7--it still gives you the ROF bonus, and the falloff bonus allows you to apply damage in a larger engagement envelope (something blasters definitely need), all while not competing with the Talos' tracking bonus. What's more, the 7/5/7 slot layout is more flexible, allowing a TC in that fifth mid if you wanted to track harder, and much more flexibility if you wanted to go with a shield-tanking/high agility fit.


+1 for fall off bonus, especially give what the TE nerf will do to blasters.
Definitely. It'd vary up the space currently occupied by ships that fly with large blasters, while making the Mega able to apply it's damage farther out--something the Talos doesn't have to worry about because it's much faster than a BS.

I mean, I'd argue, too, that the Mega should have the -1 turret/+10% damage application per level over the Hype, and the Hype should get the ROF bonus, because ROF allows you to switch targets faster, a far better consideration for solo BSs trying to engage multiple targets and defeat them quickly.

Heck, if the Mega got the -1 turret/+10% damage thing, CCP could move the 7th highslot being freed up to the lows to have 6/5/8, which would make the Mega a true monster.

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smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1544 - 2013-04-11 15:44:30 UTC
How about a hull bonus of this for the mega:

+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed and Hybrid Turret fall off

The tracking speed bonus is even more essential if tracking enhancers are getting a hit ( unless the final low slot layout is 8 then it might work ).
Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1545 - 2013-04-11 15:44:58 UTC
Just ran the number on the new Hyperion... With Damnation and Exile boosters you are looking at 1079 DPS and a 2673 DPS tank, unheated without capacitor issues.

Seems a high to me even faction fit...

Obviously not everyone would fit it this way but its a monster... It makes my PVP Navy Scorp fit with similar mods look like a toy.

[Hyperion, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Ammatar Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Ammatar Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Core C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Ammatar Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer

Large Ancillary Current Router II
Large Nanobot Accelerator II
Large Anti-EM Pump II

Berserker II x4
Warrior II x1
Warrior II x4
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1546 - 2013-04-11 15:47:56 UTC
I could certainly see that High on the Mega moving to a Mid instead of a low but with 8 lows the mega can still sub in as a decent fleet rail platform. Looks very flexible.

Looking at that Hellcat and the Rail Mega the interesting thing is when you shoot them at each other there is really only a 2k ehp in it in favour of the Hellcat. It is the CPU wall the Mega hits that is holding it back resorting to ANP’s.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1547 - 2013-04-11 15:49:35 UTC
Shingorash wrote:
Just ran the number on the new Hyperion... With Damnation and Exile boosters you are looking at 1079 DPS and a 2673 DPS tank, unheated without capacitor issues.

Seems a high to me even faction fit...

Obviously not everyone would fit it this way but its a monster... It makes my PVP Navy Scorp fit with similar mods look like a toy.

[Hyperion, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Ammatar Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Ammatar Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Core C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Ammatar Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer

Large Ancillary Current Router II
Large Nanobot Accelerator II
Large Anti-EM Pump II

Berserker II x4
Warrior II x1
Warrior II x4


What is this supposed to be? Good god

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1548 - 2013-04-11 15:53:16 UTC
Solo PVP fit, its not that expensive.... :)

Ill certainly be buying one like that if it stays how it is at the moment, that thing is a monster.
Moretic
Casual Slackers
#1549 - 2013-04-11 15:59:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Macomb wrote:
I totally understand the initiative here, to give current battleships distinctive roles.

However, please dont touch dominix... or tweak the changes a bit.

the turret nerf will make its already-horrible-dps even worse....


With the standard Domi and sentry drones I get 800 dps (drone damage mods of course), not including guns. How much dps do yo consider good?


current navy dom damage is good :D 1400 dps :D
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1550 - 2013-04-11 16:03:16 UTC
Andski wrote:
Shingorash wrote:
Just ran the number on the new Hyperion... With Damnation and Exile boosters you are looking at 1079 DPS and a 2673 DPS tank, unheated without capacitor issues.

Seems a high to me even faction fit...

Obviously not everyone would fit it this way but its a monster... It makes my PVP Navy Scorp fit with similar mods look like a toy.

[Hyperion, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Ammatar Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Ammatar Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Core C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Ammatar Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer

Large Ancillary Current Router II
Large Nanobot Accelerator II
Large Anti-EM Pump II

Berserker II x4
Warrior II x1
Warrior II x4


What is this supposed to be? Good god

He is going to be so mad when he loses this because he was perma jammed by a flight of light ECM drones from a Drake.
Joe Neal
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1551 - 2013-04-11 16:03:54 UTC
I feel this is a very good day to be gallente. Everyone that says there needs to more changes are the ones that dont have the skills to use them properly. Myself and many others in alliance are already talking about how to use the domi in fun fleets and for major ops. The mega and hype have both gained something they both needed. The mega is likely to b made into a fleet concept and the hype is even better for low-sec and even for large scale battles. Unless there are issues when it comes time to try them on sisi i cant wait for these to come and i will b buying hordes of these beasts very soon. Twisted
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1552 - 2013-04-11 16:05:15 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:

There is so much... situational stuff you're prior to looking at the fit, just black out. Ships are more than just numbers, and going with static opinions to fits only leads to the armortalos. Just fly more, use less eft.


It's pretty damn cut and dry where blaster boats hold an advantage. Methinks you just aren't very bright.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1553 - 2013-04-11 16:11:52 UTC
Andski wrote:

What is this supposed to be? Good god


A piñata, duh.
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#1554 - 2013-04-11 16:12:08 UTC
For CCP Rise

CCP Rise wrote:
This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.

If you want to bring back the Megathron back to what it became famous for, you need to remember what dethroned it in the first place. Over the years there were many indirect nerfs that hit the Megathron such as: Speed nerfs, web nerfs, boosts in other races, etc. all changes that left the mega in worse and worse shape over time. While all these changes were being brought into the game, the Mega was never compensated for all the negative impacts that would affect it's performance. Ideally these compensation would have taken place while all the nerfs took place, but we know that did not happen. So now lucky you, has to deal the mess that you didn't even create. Good luck, keep your chin up.Blink

My version of what I'd like to see.

Megathron:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed
+10% Stasis Webifier effectiveness per level (Would bring back the old 90% effect at max level. Allowing blasters to actually hit their targets properly)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 15500 PWG, 590 CPU(+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6250(+39) / 6750(+109) / 7350(-150)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 135(+20) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-25) / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)

This version provides the needed speed boost to actually get on target and apply the DPS. The added armor HP boost gives it a buffer to stay alive while it gets there, as well as making it a more viable choice for larger fleet doctrines.

The one thing I'm not certain on is the high and mid slot swap. Given the new ROF bonus it will be draining cap quite fast making a cap injector mandatory. Thus making an extra mid essential for any chance of cap stability, but the 5 mid slots opens the door for some odd shield setups.

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Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1555 - 2013-04-11 16:20:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Deerin
Grendell wrote:
For CCP Rise

CCP Rise wrote:
This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.

If you want to bring back the Megathron back to what it became famous for, you need to remember what dethroned it in the first place. Over the years there were many indirect nerfs that hit the Megathron such as: Speed nerfs, web nerfs, boosts in other races, etc. all changes that left the mega in worse and worse shape over time. While all these changes were being brought into the game, the Mega was never compensated for all the negative impacts that would affect it's performance. Ideally these compensation would have taken place while all the nerfs took place, but we know that did not happen. So now lucky you, has to deal the mess that you didn't even create. Good luck, keep your chin up.Blink

My version of what I'd like to see.

Megathron:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed
+10% Stasis Webifier effectiveness per level (Would bring back the old 90% effect at max level. Allowing blasters to actually hit their targets properly)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 15500 PWG, 590 CPU(+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6250(+39) / 6750(+109) / 7350(-150)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 135(+20) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-25) / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)

This version provides the needed speed boost to actually get on target and apply the DPS. The added armor HP boost gives it a buffer to stay alive while it gets there, as well as making it a more viable choice for larger fleet doctrines.

The one thing I'm not certain on is the high and mid slot swap. Given the new ROF bonus it will be draining cap quite fast making a cap injector mandatory. Thus making an extra mid essential for any chance of cap stability, but the 5 mid slots opens the door for some odd shield setups.


That would be a vindicator.

Edit a point range bonus instead of tracking on the other hand.....
Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1556 - 2013-04-11 16:23:41 UTC
I wouldn't be mad at losing it. Its only a few billion.

Although, yeah, ECM is a pain in the ass.
Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1557 - 2013-04-11 16:33:25 UTC
Fleet Sentry Domi

650 DPS at 80KM with Garde II's and 586 DPS at 130KM with Bouncer II's.

That will likely be used in fleets on a regular basis if it stays as it currently is.

Gallente ships at the moment are looking like they are going to be much more useful in fleets. It is about time they got some love really...

[Dominix, Sentry]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II ?
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II ?
Large YF-12a Smartbomb ?

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1558 - 2013-04-11 16:37:22 UTC
Shingorash wrote:
Fleet Sentry Domi

650 DPS at 80KM with Garde II's and 586 DPS at 130KM with Bouncer II's.

That will likely be used in fleets on a regular basis if it stays as it currently is.

Gallente ships at the moment are looking like they are going to be much more useful in fleets. It is about time they got some love really...

[Dominix, Sentry]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II ?
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II ?
Large YF-12a Smartbomb ?

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5


Fleets move, you know. Constantly.

Sentry ships that aren't carriers are losing their DPS every time they do an on-grid warp. Not viable to be completely frank. No one fights standing still.
Ninavask
Alexylva Paradox
#1559 - 2013-04-11 16:41:42 UTC
No no no no. Eight guns on Hyperion or gtfo. I don't care if you have to take away drones for it to be balanced, Hyperion is a gunship not an aircraft carrier.

Dr. Ninavask Revan

Colonist

Alexylva Paradox

The views above are the opinions and beliefs of Dr. Ninavask and do in no way reflect on his employeers or associates at the time of posting.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1560 - 2013-04-11 16:48:28 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Shingorash wrote:
Fleet Sentry Domi

650 DPS at 80KM with Garde II's and 586 DPS at 130KM with Bouncer II's.

That will likely be used in fleets on a regular basis if it stays as it currently is.

Gallente ships at the moment are looking like they are going to be much more useful in fleets. It is about time they got some love really...

[Dominix, Sentry]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II ?
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II ?
Large YF-12a Smartbomb ?

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5


Fleets move, you know. Constantly.

Sentry ships that aren't carriers are losing their DPS every time they do an on-grid warp. Not viable to be completely frank. No one fights standing still.

Almost seems like the Dominix could use some extra done bay so it it loses some drones it wont be crippled, and some control range so it can use railguns in the high slots rather than a bunch of DLAs.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.