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EVE's ever growing ISK inflation cost rates.

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Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-04-11 13:00:19 UTC
ships are still to cheap seeing how easy it is to replace them and how easy it is to make isk.
Frying Doom
#42 - 2013-04-11 13:25:10 UTC
Djana Libra wrote:
ships are still to cheap seeing how easy it is to replace them and how easy it is to make isk.


The biggest problem with inflation is actually to do with money you previously made.

Say you earned a million isk, for which you can buy for example an iteron III (Honestly I don't know the price atm) now if you do not continue to earn more isk, via whatever, in 12 months time you will not be able to buy that ship.

Inflation decreases the value of money previously earned, unless it is rolled into a commodity that is subsequently effected by inflation.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Haulie Berry
#43 - 2013-04-11 13:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Frying Doom wrote:
Inflation is caused by an increase in the supply of money.



While there is some inflation in Eve, it's not what's responsible for the increase in prices you're prattling on about.

Mineral prices are up because mineral supply is down.

Inflationary price increases would yield an increase in prices across the board. We're mostly seeing price increases where the bulk of the cost is in minerals.

Looked at T3 prices lately?

You're completely ignoring some extremely huge changes in the supply/demand curve, so your position is ultimately a naively informed one.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#44 - 2013-04-11 13:33:37 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Three words:

Player Driven Economy.



Yes but try buying a 150-300 mil ship unfitted no less, when you're a new player who doesn't know how to make any ISK. I've explained this to new players I've met and was almost apologetic about the high costs. I think alot of T1 ships have very expensive to very ridiculous costs.


If they can't afford it they aren't ready for it.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-04-11 13:34:33 UTC
And some aren't ready even if they can afford it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
flakeys
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-04-11 13:40:19 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
With the summer expansion not that far away, the EVE economy is going to take a serious hit.

With Ship prices climbing all the time and the ship skill rebalance will make already expensive ships in much higher demand.

What's going to be done to adjust this? Will ship building costs go down to compensate or general money making things in EVE from bounties to rewards go up?

First time I bought a Charon it cost 680 mil, a raven about 100 mil. Ah the good old days Haha.




If you want to lower the prices then ask CCP to nerf iskmaking not improve it.


If this doesn't make sense to you then you don't quite understand basic economics.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Frying Doom
#47 - 2013-04-11 13:43:19 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Inflation is caused by an increase in the supply of money.



While there is some inflation in Eve, it's not what's responsible for the increase in prices you're prattling on about.

Mineral prices are up because mineral supply is down.

Inflationary price increases would yield an increase in prices across the board. We're mostly seeing price increases where the bulk of the cost is in minerals.

Looked at T3 prices lately?

You're completely ignoring some extremely huge changes in the supply/demand curve, so your position is ultimately a naively informed one.

Actually in a game environment like eve where they have changed the supply of minerals (removing gun mining, altering mining barges) will have a large effect on mineral prices so no one good or set of goods are specific to inflation, which is why in countries they measure inflation over a large number of items. And if you look at minerals as a whole they have always trended upwards over time, excluding the last few months.

And at the end of the day I will except what Dr. Eyjólfur Guðmundsson said on the matter last year, that it was a concern and that they needed to find new isk sinks.

So my naivety is backed by an economist, whats your position backed by?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
flakeys
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-04-11 13:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Haulie Berry wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Inflation is caused by an increase in the supply of money.



While there is some inflation in Eve, it's not what's responsible for the increase in prices you're prattling on about.

Mineral prices are up because mineral supply is down.

Inflationary price increases would yield an increase in prices across the board. We're mostly seeing price increases where the bulk of the cost is in minerals.

Looked at T3 prices lately?

You're completely ignoring some extremely huge changes in the supply/demand curve, so your position is ultimately a naively informed one.


People are comparing it to how long it takes for a newb to get ship X or Y etc .


If you've played eve from around the start you'd know T1 ships are MUCH faster obtained now even with the huge increase of purchase cost.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Frying Doom
#49 - 2013-04-11 13:49:19 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Inflation is caused by an increase in the supply of money.



While there is some inflation in Eve, it's not what's responsible for the increase in prices you're prattling on about.

Mineral prices are up because mineral supply is down.

Inflationary price increases would yield an increase in prices across the board. We're mostly seeing price increases where the bulk of the cost is in minerals.

Looked at T3 prices lately?

You're completely ignoring some extremely huge changes in the supply/demand curve, so your position is ultimately a naively informed one.


People are comparing it to how long it takes for a newb to get ship X or Y etc .


If you've played eve from around the start you'd know T1 ships are MUCH faster obtained now even with the huge increase of purchase cost.

Don't remind me, it took so long to get a cruiser.

But the up side was you thought it was something special when you finally got it Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
flakeys
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-04-11 13:50:29 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Inflation is caused by an increase in the supply of money.



While there is some inflation in Eve, it's not what's responsible for the increase in prices you're prattling on about.

Mineral prices are up because mineral supply is down.

Inflationary price increases would yield an increase in prices across the board. We're mostly seeing price increases where the bulk of the cost is in minerals.

Looked at T3 prices lately?

You're completely ignoring some extremely huge changes in the supply/demand curve, so your position is ultimately a naively informed one.


People are comparing it to how long it takes for a newb to get ship X or Y etc .


If you've played eve from around the start you'd know T1 ships are MUCH faster obtained now even with the huge increase of purchase cost.

Don't remind me, it took so long to get a cruiser.

But the up side was you thought it was something special when you finally got it Smile



Yet you took it for a spin into null without a blink ... Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Frying Doom
#51 - 2013-04-11 13:56:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
flakeys wrote:
Yet you took it for a spin into null without a blink ... Blink

Actually I took it into lo-sec and someone was kind enough to show me the error of my ways, but I did learn that being pod killed was a fast way back home.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#52 - 2013-04-11 14:14:06 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
EVE has never had a high retention rate.

It has a very high retention rate for those who enjoy it, and those are the ones who matter.


60% of the time it works every time!

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Kyra Quinn
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-04-11 14:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyra Quinn
Ken 1138 wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Three words:

Player Driven Economy.



Yes but try buying a 150-300 mil ship unfitted no less, when you're a new player who doesn't know how to make any ISK. I've explained this to new players I've met and was almost apologetic about the high costs. I think alot of T1 ships have very expensive to very ridiculous costs.



I have no idea on how much, if at all, inflation there is but I can tell you that new players aren't necessarily poor or in need of "cuddling". I make some 500-600 mil per week, I could make more but I generally just stop bothering once I reach 500.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#54 - 2013-04-11 14:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Ken 1138 wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Three words:

Player Driven Economy.



Yes but try buying a 150-300 mil ship unfitted no less, when you're a new player who doesn't know how to make any ISK. I've explained this to new players I've met and was almost apologetic about the high costs. I think alot of T1 ships have very expensive to very ridiculous costs.



What you SHOULD have explained was the first rule of eve: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
flakeys
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-04-11 14:28:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Yet you took it for a spin into null without a blink ... Blink

Actually I took it into lo-sec and someone was kind enough to show me the error of my ways, but I did learn that being pod killed was a fast way back home.Lol


First raven took me 2 months .. after i got it out of the oven i thought it would be fun to see what null was about and dived into ecp-8 .... i enjoyed my raven for 2 hours Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Haulie Berry
#56 - 2013-04-11 14:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Quote:
Actually in a game environment like eve where they have changed the supply of minerals (removing gun mining, altering mining barges) will have a large effect on mineral prices so no one good or set of goods are specific to inflation, which is why in countries they measure inflation over a large number of items. And if you look at minerals as a whole they have always trended upwards over time, excluding the last few months.

And at the end of the day I will except what Dr. Eyjólfur Guðmundsson said on the matter last year, that it was a concern and that they needed to find new isk sinks.

So my naivety is backed by an economist, whats your position backed by?


What he said and what you said are only loosely related.

This is a common feature of the Eve Online chicken-little whinge post.

Unlike your post, his fanfest talk very specifically included the supply/demand curve shifts in addition to money supply (as well as other factors, like speculation).

His conclusion was, "Yeah, we'll continue to keep an eye on things."

Your conclusion was, "AMG the Eveconermy is gunna asplode!!11!1!"
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-04-11 15:05:28 UTC
There is a giant white elephant in the Odyssey Announcement calls Spacescape that talks about a full rebalance of all regions from high to null and change to industrial resources.

Tell me what that means, and MAYBE we can speculate as to possible market effects post Odyssey.


Until we get at least a hint what CCP is talking about with this Spacescape stuff, I have NO IDEA what June will bring.



Come on CCP! We're waiting!
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-04-11 15:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
ISD Gallifreyan wrote:
CCP talked last year about being concerned with inflation, however.

Tons of new isk is being generatrd through NPC bounties and mission rewards.
There are not enough isk sinks in the game to combat this.

When your ship explodes, the only isk to leave the game is the isk paid for the manufacturing slot (which is negligible)

Isk sinks currently include War dec costs, expired insurace fees, broker fees, market taxes (not corp tax), office rental, ship repair, locator agents. Etc.

The only way to combat inflation in eve is to increase these sinks or come up with new ones.


This is not entirely true.

You could reduce inflation by adding more sinks, but you could reduce inflation by having more players who invariably buy and sell more products which in turn speeds up the rate of current isk sinks with taxes and broker fees.

Also having more players also means more insurance purchases (which are sinks over time) and more war decs which sink money of course.

Alternatively, having more players will result in some of those players being material side production as more people become miners producing more minerals effectively driving down prices.

Or you could just discourage missioning and encourage mining resulting in less isk being generated and more material wealth being created.

Anyways, I don't see inflation being as bad as some people make it out to be. And most economists agree that inflation is preferable to deflation where prices fall and people produce less.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Frying Doom
#59 - 2013-04-11 15:52:27 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Quote:
Actually in a game environment like eve where they have changed the supply of minerals (removing gun mining, altering mining barges) will have a large effect on mineral prices so no one good or set of goods are specific to inflation, which is why in countries they measure inflation over a large number of items. And if you look at minerals as a whole they have always trended upwards over time, excluding the last few months.

And at the end of the day I will except what Dr. Eyjólfur Guðmundsson said on the matter last year, that it was a concern and that they needed to find new isk sinks.

So my naivety is backed by an economist, whats your position backed by?


What he said and what you said are only loosely related.

This is a common feature of the Eve Online chicken-little whinge post.

Unlike your post, his fanfest talk very specifically included the supply/demand curve shifts in addition to money supply (as well as other factors, like speculation).

His conclusion was, "Yeah, we'll continue to keep an eye on things."

Your conclusion was, "AMG the Eveconermy is gunna asplode!!11!1!"

You seemed to have missed the bit where he explains there are trillions of isk entering the market every month, and him saying they need more isk sinks.

As to "AMG the Eveconermy is gunna asplode!!11!1!" I think we can safely say only you would say something that stupid.

I was stating that the extra cost of slots at NPC facilities would be good for the economy, and the fact that it made sense for the people who are risking hundreds of millions of isk, if not billions for their refining, research and manufacturing to have their manufacturing being on par with NPC facilities. When I say on par I mean that NPC facilities cost slightly more per slot than POS facilities as you are risking nothing and you only pay for them on a per use basis.

So can you actually form an argument that does not just sound like a toddler that lost its wallypop.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#60 - 2013-04-11 15:54:27 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Anyways, I don't see inflation being as bad as some people make it out to be. And most economists agree that inflation is preferable to deflation where prices fall and people produce less.

On that I must agree inflation of 1-3% PA is the preferable range. Deflation is almost never preferable.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!