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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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McCreary075
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1461 - 2013-04-11 03:17:11 UTC
Zu'ferna wrote:
androch wrote:
domi too ugly..appearance needs fixing


No way! I love my space boot!


The best name for the Dominix I've heard over the years is 'The 'Forehead Fortress'.

I think the designers were watching Futurama when they designed the Dominix way back in the day.
http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/images/e/e4/Dwayne.jpg
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1462 - 2013-04-11 05:19:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Agility does matter on a BS as does speed. With the built in tracking the TE will help that little bit more and low slot ECCM is still good to have.

The high slot is something we can live without but if you really want it then the hype is probably more to your taste now.


Nanos on armor bs? Speed without acceleration and agility? No, they don't really matter, every ship still runs circles around you.

Both tracking and ECCM would be better in the mids.

Yeah, Hype is much better atm. There is zero reason to choose a Mega over a Proteus, it doesn't do anything that the Proteus wouldn't do better. There used to be - a heavy neut.

This latest version of Mega is a failure. Intention was to make it attack battleship, but it got the slot layout of a fleet ship. Yet it doesn't have the tank for fleets or meaningful hull bonus for them, nor the dps at competitive ranges.

Good slot layouts for an attack battleship:

7+1 / 4 / 7 (right, Mega wasn't broken)
7+1 / 5 / 6
7 / 5 / 7

Bad slot layout for attack battleship:

7 / 4 / 8

.
Cari Cullejen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1463 - 2013-04-11 05:20:17 UTC
Until you fix armor tanking please leave the megathron alone, I'll never be able to get into another shield fleet again...

What are you looking for here? Read the post!
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1464 - 2013-04-11 05:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Roime wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Agility does matter on a BS as does speed. With the built in tracking the TE will help that little bit more and low slot ECCM is still good to have.

The high slot is something we can live without but if you really want it then the hype is probably more to your taste now.


Nanos on armor bs? Speed without acceleration and agility? No, they don't really matter, every ship still runs circles around you.

Both tracking and ECCM would be better in the mids.

Yeah, Hype is much better atm. There is zero reason to choose a Mega over a Proteus, it doesn't do anything that the Proteus wouldn't do better. There used to be - a heavy neut.

This latest version of Mega is a failure. Intention was to make it attack battleship, but it got the slot layout of a fleet ship. Yet it doesn't have the tank for fleets or meaningful hull bonus for them, nor the dps at competitive ranges.

Good slot layouts for an attack battleship:

7+1 / 4 / 7 (right, Mega wasn't broken)
7+1 / 5 / 6
7 / 5 / 7

Bad slot layout for attack battleship:

7 / 4 / 8


Actually, with 7 / 4 / 8, the new mega has better DPS at mid ranges than any fleet ship but an Abaddon, competitive mid-long range DPS only eclipsed by the Rokh, and everything necessary to tank like the best of them except a little more CPU. Without that CPU, it can have a tank equal to a Rokh's EHP with an inferior resist profile, or a perfectly balanced resist profile with about 7k EHP less than a Maelstrom.

Give the ship 600 base CPU and it will be an excellent fleet ship. The slot layout is the entire reason it can - with the wasted utility high (yes, wasted), it can't compete.

The thing about utility highs is they only apply to certain kinds of PvP. None of the items you could fit there matter outside about 25km range, except for a cyno, which is not something game breaking. The only fits that use that highslot are the ones fitting neuts for brawling (RRs are a waste in today's game). The thing about brawling megas is they benefit quite a bit from 8 lows - absurd gank or very solid tank become options, whereas before a mega couldn't fit a solid tank, only a decent one, without gimping its DPS. And honestly, megas tend to deplete their target's tank before they deplete its cap.

7 / 5 / 7 makes it a lot harder to justify a mega in a fleet - even if it got its 600 CPU, you're giving up a magstab for a tracking comp. This means it stops competing with the Mael and Abaddon in midrange (DPS plummets) and is just an inferior armor Rokh.

8 / 4 / 7 changes nothing from the current game, and keeps the ship completely unable to compete at all.

This is a good slot layout. The Hyperion gained a utility high to boot - there is still a ship that can blaster brawl with 7 lows, 5 mids and a heavy neut. Except now it has an even bigger tank. Because they chose to put the Hyperion in this role, it becomes a ship that might just be fleet viable as well - because of that massive base armor HP, it doesn't need to stack 2 plates to get to the 120-130k EHP range.

In short, there is still a heavy neuting blaster brawler, and Gallente just gained 2 potential fleet doctrine candidates. This is a win win, don't even try to complain dude.
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#1465 - 2013-04-11 05:32:07 UTC
Can I bribe you to 'pretend' to have 8 turrets on the model if full 6 turret modules even if they don't do anything >.>?

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Terianna Eri
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1466 - 2013-04-11 05:47:55 UTC
RIP Shield DPS Dominix. Please leave the Navy Dominix alone. Excited for Hyperion change. Megathron seems like it might be overkill.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1467 - 2013-04-11 06:41:52 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:


Actually, with 7 / 4 / 8, the new mega has better DPS at mid ranges than any fleet ship but an Abaddon, competitive mid-long range DPS only eclipsed by the Rokh, and everything necessary to tank like the best of them except a little more CPU. Without that CPU, it can have a tank equal to a Rokh's EHP with an inferior resist profile, or a perfectly balanced resist profile with about 7k EHP less than a Maelstrom.

Give the ship 600 base CPU and it will be an excellent fleet ship. The slot layout is the entire reason it can - with the wasted utility high (yes, wasted), it can't compete.


Well it fails at it's intended role, which is not large fleets, and even for those it's not the best option. I hope you notice that you are thinking "if it could fit both tank and gank at the same time, then it would be third or fourth best option for LR slugging fleets", when the ship was intended to be fast blaster boat.

Anyway, I guess I just have to accept the fact that the small gang option is now Hype, not really complaining, I like it as much as the Mega.

Funny though how it turned out- the ship intended for fleets ends up a PVE boat with less dps, attack battleship ends up being a rail ship, and the worst BS in EVE currently becomes actually viable active armor tanker instead of just less broken Lol






.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1468 - 2013-04-11 06:42:11 UTC
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
Amended Megathron does not look right. It should not and cannot have 8 lows.

It's a slow arsed blaster boat. Why does it not have a falloff bonus?


Slot layout would be better as something like 8-5-6 rather than proposed 7-4-8 and give it falloff and tracking bonus's.

Why not give it the ability to fit prop, scram, web, cap injector and utility med? Let someone try to shield tank it. You have Armor tanking Minmatar ships so why not a shield Gallente?




Use the extra low slots and fit modules to boost your falloff.

If you want to shield tank a blaster boat with falloff bonuses, fly a Rokh.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1469 - 2013-04-11 06:56:00 UTC
Roime wrote:
Intention was to make it attack battleship, but it got the slot layout of a fleet ship


I think you are mistaken at this point. Everybody in the thread wanted one gallente BS that can be competetive in fleets, hence the new megathrone. It is also fast and can be used for other things too, which is a bonus.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1470 - 2013-04-11 07:05:25 UTC
McCreary075 wrote:
The best name for the Dominix I've heard over the years is 'The 'Forehead Fortress'.

I think the designers were watching Futurama when they designed the Dominix way back in the day.
http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/images/e/e4/Dwayne.jpg


I always thought it looked like Johnny Bravo. For important comparative purposes.
Moretic
Casual Slackers
#1471 - 2013-04-11 07:06:34 UTC
Tennessee Jack wrote:
fukier wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

Dominix:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)

I'm still a sad panda over this. I'm really hoping you leave the Navy Domi alone with the Hybrid + Drone damage bonus.

-Liang


navy domi?

Seems there turning the old ships into the new Navy Ships (least the good old ship's).

The Domi needs something. I can't quite figure out what the heck its missing, but it is missing something. There has been talk about an updated Dominix model. I'm thinking that would help.. well it would help a ton ( A refresh on the spacepotato, spacecow, rottensneaker, floatingturdmobile would help ).

Fitting wise... I guess the question is that no one has really fit out a "Pure" droneboat, and used it to great success. The main question that I can figure is... well what do we do with the highslots, they have no bonus. THe armageddon is getting both a Neut range bonus, plus its high slots can fit any weapon system (getting equal launcher and turret hard points). Yes it is unbonused but it gains flexibility like the Prophecy. I'm fine with that.

The Dominix does need something. I believe It needs a bonus to the Microwarp Drive speed of drones. It needs a way to get Heavy Drones moving fast enough to warrant their deployment. The Algos has it as a role bonus.

Algos
Role bonus:
25% bonus to drone microwarpdrive speed

That might do it. It would give the Dominix the option to deploy as a sentry platform, or to muscle its way into 40+ and closer range and use its highslots for rails/blaster mix as well as giving the Heavy Drones more movement they need to deploy out and be effective (Rather than the heavy drones spending 20 to 40 seconds MWD over to the ship to go blow it up.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% and Drone microwarpdrive speed.
+10% Drone Damage, Drone hitpoints, Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed

That would probably do it. Though I'm not totally sure heavy's even having 25% more mwd speed would be enough for them (for mediums and lights, definetly, but heavies...).


or better yet, instead of mwd speed give drone control range...
Moretic
Casual Slackers
#1472 - 2013-04-11 07:08:16 UTC
Shingorash wrote:
Tennessee Jack wrote:
fukier wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

Dominix:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)

I'm still a sad panda over this. I'm really hoping you leave the Navy Domi alone with the Hybrid + Drone damage bonus.

-Liang


navy domi?

Seems there turning the old ships into the new Navy Ships (least the good old ship's).

The Domi needs something. I can't quite figure out what the heck its missing, but it is missing something. There has been talk about an updated Dominix model. I'm thinking that would help.. well it would help a ton ( A refresh on the spacepotato, spacecow, rottensneaker, floatingturdmobile would help ).

Fitting wise... I guess the question is that no one has really fit out a "Pure" droneboat, and used it to great success. The main question that I can figure is... well what do we do with the highslots, they have no bonus. THe armageddon is getting both a Neut range bonus, plus its high slots can fit any weapon system (getting equal launcher and turret hard points). Yes it is unbonused but it gains flexibility like the Prophecy. I'm fine with that.

The Dominix does need something. I believe It needs a bonus to the Microwarp Drive speed of drones. It needs a way to get Heavy Drones moving fast enough to warrant their deployment. The Algos has it as a role bonus.

Algos
Role bonus:
25% bonus to drone microwarpdrive speed

That might do it. It would give the Dominix the option to deploy as a sentry platform, or to muscle its way into 40+ and closer range and use its highslots for rails/blaster mix as well as giving the Heavy Drones more movement they need to deploy out and be effective (Rather than the heavy drones spending 20 to 40 seconds MWD over to the ship to go blow it up.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% and Drone microwarpdrive speed.
+10% Drone Damage, Drone hitpoints, Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed

That would probably do it. Though I'm not totally sure heavy's even having 25% more mwd speed would be enough for them (for mediums and lights, definetly, but heavies...).


If only there was battleship sized drone control units...!

Yes please :D
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1473 - 2013-04-11 07:20:24 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Roime wrote:
Intention was to make it attack battleship, but it got the slot layout of a fleet ship


I think you are mistaken at this point. Everybody in the thread wanted one gallente BS that can be competetive in fleets, hence the new megathrone. It is also fast and can be used for other things too, which is a bonus.


Read the OP again, making Mega the fleet ship was clearly not CCP's intention.

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1474 - 2013-04-11 07:23:47 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
McCreary075 wrote:
The best name for the Dominix I've heard over the years is 'The 'Forehead Fortress'.

I think the designers were watching Futurama when they designed the Dominix way back in the day.
http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/images/e/e4/Dwayne.jpg


I always thought it looked like Johnny Bravo. For important comparative purposes.


Domi has a pope hat. http://www.austinrocky.org/photos/08252007/content/bin/images/large/IMG_9264.jpg

.
zerquse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1475 - 2013-04-11 07:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: zerquse
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

I think this would be better:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone MWD Speed and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

so all drones get a buff, not just sentrys
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1476 - 2013-04-11 07:41:01 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Use the extra low slots and fit modules to boost your falloff.

If you want to shield tank a blaster boat with falloff bonuses, fly a Rokh.


You mean a Deimos, a blaster ship that actually has a falloff bonus?

Falloff bonuses are great for blaster boats and I agree that the Mega should have one instead of the tracking bonus.
Rukhsana Uxor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1477 - 2013-04-11 07:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rukhsana Uxor
Roime wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Agility does matter on a BS as does speed. With the built in tracking the TE will help that little bit more and low slot ECCM is still good to have.

The high slot is something we can live without but if you really want it then the hype is probably more to your taste now.


Nanos on armor bs? Speed without acceleration and agility? No, they don't really matter, every ship still runs circles around you.

Both tracking and ECCM would be better in the mids.

Yeah, Hype is much better atm. There is zero reason to choose a Mega over a Proteus, it doesn't do anything that the Proteus wouldn't do better. There used to be - a heavy neut.

This latest version of Mega is a failure. Intention was to make it attack battleship, but it got the slot layout of a fleet ship. Yet it doesn't have the tank for fleets or meaningful hull bonus for them, nor the dps at competitive ranges.

Good slot layouts for an attack battleship:

7+1 / 4 / 7 (right, Mega wasn't broken)
7+1 / 5 / 6
7 / 5 / 7

Bad slot layout for attack battleship:

7 / 4 / 8


Let me say clear.

7-4-8 layouts give you pretty good tank+dps+speed+range. If i want use mega in massive fleet fight i will put MWD, MJD, TC and cap boos in mid, 2 plates, 2 eanm, 1 dc, 1-2 magstab and 1-2 TE (if my fleet dont need MJD i will fit 2 TC and 1 TE and will have optimal+fallow MORE than rokh has even with 2 TE). This mega will have ~1km\s with MWD on, 700-800 dps at 0-30km and half of that at 30-60km. With blasters. I also could use rails (with 1 co-op in 1 low slot, becuase it 8 now).

Please leave this days where few people fly solo\small-scale pvp with mega. Now hyper will do that role much better (7-5-7+175 dronebay+active armor tank). I see a lot of opportunity with new Mega in fleet fights.
49125
Growing Old Disgracefully
#1478 - 2013-04-11 07:42:06 UTC
Please do something more for the Domi (beyond PG). You're pushing it into a specialization that it is already capable of providing. Not only that, but with the range increase on every sentry type why would anyone need to bother with speed bonused scouts (as one of the few relevant sniper mids)? The enemy would either be sentry-able, or in scout range with bonused tracking. If they leave that range, recall and drop sentries.

Just not seeing it. ?

.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1479 - 2013-04-11 07:51:24 UTC
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
Roime wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Agility does matter on a BS as does speed. With the built in tracking the TE will help that little bit more and low slot ECCM is still good to have.

The high slot is something we can live without but if you really want it then the hype is probably more to your taste now.


Nanos on armor bs? Speed without acceleration and agility? No, they don't really matter, every ship still runs circles around you.

Both tracking and ECCM would be better in the mids.

Yeah, Hype is much better atm. There is zero reason to choose a Mega over a Proteus, it doesn't do anything that the Proteus wouldn't do better. There used to be - a heavy neut.

This latest version of Mega is a failure. Intention was to make it attack battleship, but it got the slot layout of a fleet ship. Yet it doesn't have the tank for fleets or meaningful hull bonus for them, nor the dps at competitive ranges.

Good slot layouts for an attack battleship:

7+1 / 4 / 7 (right, Mega wasn't broken)
7+1 / 5 / 6
7 / 5 / 7

Bad slot layout for attack battleship:

7 / 4 / 8


Let me say clear.

7-4-8 layouts give you pretty good tank+dps+speed+range. If i want use mega in massive fleet fight i will put MWD, MJD, TC and cap boos in mid, 2 plates, 2 eanm, 1 dc, 1-2 magstab and 1-2 TE (if my fleet dont need MJD i will fit 2 TC and 1 TE and will have optimal+fallow MORE than rokh has even with 2 TE). This mega will have ~1km\s with MWD on, 700-800 dps at 0-30km and half of that at 30-60km. With blasters. I also could use rails (with 1 co-op in 1 low slot, becuase it 8 now).

Please leave this days where few people fly solo\small-scale pvp with mega. Now hyper will dothat role much better (7-5-7+175 dronebay+active armor tank). I see a lot of opportunity with new Mega in fleet fights.


Blasters dont work in fleets, i explain why in detail on page 25. That said, rail mega does 600 dps from guns at 40km, and can hit to 140km
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1480 - 2013-04-11 07:51:46 UTC
Where is my single-repped kiting mega? There it is! \o/

Leave those 8 lows! I want to slap a MWD on and show some people how you can kite in a active-armor-tanked battleship once there is a nano and an overdrive fitted! Though I'd willingly neglect one of the turret highs for yet another mid, needs two webs :P