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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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fukier
Gallente Federation
#1421 - 2013-04-10 22:34:22 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
What if, for the Hyperion, instead of having a bonus to armor repair amount per level, it had a reduction in armor repair cap use per level?

Get out!


it would not have to be instead it would have to be added to...

this is how i would make the bonus look like

7.5% to armor repair repair amount, increase in heat amount bonus and reduction in cap activation per level.

that makes the armor rep 37.5% better reduce the cap activation cost of a large armor rep II to 250 and with heat turned on will increase rep amount by 13.75% and reduce activation time by 15%

lets do a mock up:

a hyperion with a laar and a larII with a dcu II a reactive armor hardener and two energy adaptive II with two aux rigs and one nano rig with a off grid legion and the implants =

with 1962 dps tank from the AAR and 1162 dps from the lar II

so thats 3124 dps tank from a costly but awe inspiring hyperion...


if they did that to the rep bonus the bonus would be actually useful!
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Rysis Vyvorant
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#1422 - 2013-04-10 22:35:08 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Rysis Vyvorant wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I'm still not sold on the Dominix changes to the bonus. Was there no other options on the table CCP Rise??

It would be nice to see other options, and several have been brought up by players, I can't say that I like this Dominix any better than current or better than the Armageddon.


The new Domi is inferior to the current one. If there were replacement mods for the mids that the OTL use to occupy then the ship might have some merrit. Right now you have a bonus that really adds nothing for close range and could be useful for sniper fits if it also had a control range bonus.


The tracking buff helps ogres hit cruisers, but it still cannot catch them, dual DNC will help with that.
A Control range boost is a must, 25% is a absolute minimum 50% would be the perferd


I agree, a 50% drone control range is a must. Add this and then we are looking at a decent drone boat. I would like more drone mods though to help enchance the ship.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1423 - 2013-04-10 22:35:21 UTC
fukier wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
What if, for the Hyperion, instead of having a bonus to armor repair amount per level, it had a reduction in armor repair cap use per level?

Get out!


it would not have to be instead it would have to be added to...

this is how i would make the bonus look like

7.5% to armor repair repair amount, increase in heat amount bonus and reduction in cap activation per level.

that makes the armor rep 37.5% better reduce the cap activation cost of a large armor rep II to 250 and with heat turned on will increase rep amount by 13.75% and reduce activation time by 15%

lets do a mock up:

a hyperion with a laar and a larII with a dcu II a reactive armor hardener and two energy adaptive II with two aux rigs and one nano rig with a off grid legion and the implants =

with 1962 dps tank from the AAR and 1162 dps from the lar II

so thats 3124 dps tank from a costly but awe inspiring hyperion...


if they did that to the rep bonus the bonus would be actually useful!


Also, broken.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1424 - 2013-04-10 22:37:40 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
As for the Hyperion, I've often wished that a blaster boat could have a bonus to MWD in the form of cap use reduction and sig bloom reduction. The greatest problem with blaster boats is always getting into range for the purpose of actually firing their awesomely high DPS, ridiculously short range weapons. Reduce their damage bonus to 5%, substitute a sig bloom bonus of -50%. Or perhaps give it a bonus to afterburner speed.


kinda pointless for a combat ship that has huge sig radius and is slow like a brick...

now if it was an attack ship...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Zu'ferna
Astral Horizons
#1425 - 2013-04-10 22:38:11 UTC
Roime wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

Aren't Dominix missing a slot? All other ships have 19, while Dominix only have 18.

By design. Drone ships have 1 less slot.


This is somewhat justified on double-damage bonused hulls, but not on purely drone-oriented ships. Dominix could now well have it's missing slot back.

Another way to fix this would be to extend drone bonus to all drone effects, to actually make the mythical "drone utility" a reality. Halve ECM drone base strength while you are at it. This would also differentiate the Domi and Geddon, one would be a true drone boat, other a nasty ghetto Bhaal.

Also, I see no reason to not extend the native drone control range of Domi now to better suit it's sentry drone role.





I defiantly agree, turning the Dominix into a true drone boat with it's bonus affecting utility drones, and/or extending native control range by 50% would be great, and defiantly differentiate from the Geddon. Someone else mentioned Archon vs Thanatos drone bays, buffing the Domi's bay would fit, Gallente are intended to be the leaders in drone warfare aren't they?

With it's current bonus all that's been done is freed up mid slots from omni tracking links, and cut down gun damage. While the Geddon is the new neut Domi.

fukier
Gallente Federation
#1426 - 2013-04-10 22:38:11 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
fukier wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
What if, for the Hyperion, instead of having a bonus to armor repair amount per level, it had a reduction in armor repair cap use per level?

Get out!


it would not have to be instead it would have to be added to...

this is how i would make the bonus look like

7.5% to armor repair repair amount, increase in heat amount bonus and reduction in cap activation per level.

that makes the armor rep 37.5% better reduce the cap activation cost of a large armor rep II to 250 and with heat turned on will increase rep amount by 13.75% and reduce activation time by 15%

lets do a mock up:

a hyperion with a laar and a larII with a dcu II a reactive armor hardener and two energy adaptive II with two aux rigs and one nano rig with a off grid legion and the implants =

with 1962 dps tank from the AAR and 1162 dps from the lar II

so thats 3124 dps tank from a costly but awe inspiring hyperion...


if they did that to the rep bonus the bonus would be actually useful!


Also, broken.


elaborate...

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1427 - 2013-04-10 22:46:41 UTC
fukier wrote:

elaborate...


The reason the rep bonus is considered bad is not its stats. It is positively great for active tanking.

The reason is that its analogue (resist bonus) benefits both active and buffer tanks. The active tank bonus should be replaced by something that does the same - not buffed to the point that it is frankly absurd for active tanks.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1428 - 2013-04-10 22:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: fukier
Akirei Scytale wrote:
fukier wrote:

elaborate...


The reason the rep bonus is considered bad is not its stats. It is positively great for active tanking.

The reason is that its analogue (resist bonus) benefits both active and buffer tanks. The active tank bonus should be replaced by something that does the same - not buffed to the point that it is frankly absurd for active tanks.


yeah thats already understood...

the easy way to fix it is to allow the bonus to extend to RR...

but ccp said no way jose... which made me a sad sad panda...

so... if not making it a bonus that scales to fleets i would prefer to make the bonus sick for solo-small scale pvp like 15 ships and less...

and i used an extream high setup just to show the potential...

of grid boosting will be nerfed at some point so good by legion

plus the implants are stupid expensive and even with that it only lasts 3 min due to heat damage but it can still be shut off by nuets...

edit: plus you do know that as the hyperion stands today its doing 2901 dps tank with that setup which is only 223 dps tank different... so does that mean you think the current 7.5% is absurd?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
androch
LitlCorp
#1429 - 2013-04-10 22:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: androch
domi needs a facelift now that all it does is launch drones.. it needs to look more carrier like, right now all it looks like is a flying turd
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1430 - 2013-04-10 23:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
fukier wrote:
yeah thats already understood...

the easy way to fix it is to allow the bonus to extend to RR...

but ccp said no way jose... which made me a sad sad panda...

so... if not making it a bonus that scales to fleets i would prefer to make the bonus sick for solo-small scale pvp like 15 ships and less...

and i used an extream high setup just to show the potential...

of grid boosting will be nerfed at some point so good by legion

plus the implants are stupid expensive and even with that it only lasts 3 min due to heat damage but it can still be shut off by nuets...

The *current* Hyperion can already tank more than what an Oneiros will make a *current* Abaddon tank.

People see logi ships as OP or at least as formidable force multipliers, yet a armor rep bonus allow the Hyperion to have an integrated personal logi with far more survivability than the logi ship in question. In small gang, this bonus is invaluable, but as logi rep amount don't show on eft, people don't have anything to compare to I guess, and as the bonus is hard to make working and still vulnerable to neutralizers, HATE...

Of course, that bonus don't scale up really well, but I think the Hyperion now have enough to make for this (10% damage bonus, utility high, 7th low slot...) It's sad it had to lose the 8 guns for this, but nevermind.

For the Megathron though, it's really sad ; people really don't have any clue about what we could have had. Such blindness puzzle me.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1431 - 2013-04-10 23:14:56 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

For the Megathron though, it's really sad ; people really don't have any clue about what we could have had. Such blindness puzzle me.


Dude, we just got fleet megathrons. No idea what you're complaining about.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1432 - 2013-04-10 23:22:53 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
fukier wrote:
yeah thats already understood...

the easy way to fix it is to allow the bonus to extend to RR...

but ccp said no way jose... which made me a sad sad panda...

so... if not making it a bonus that scales to fleets i would prefer to make the bonus sick for solo-small scale pvp like 15 ships and less...

and i used an extream high setup just to show the potential...

of grid boosting will be nerfed at some point so good by legion

plus the implants are stupid expensive and even with that it only lasts 3 min due to heat damage but it can still be shut off by nuets...

The *current* Hyperion can already tank more than what an Oneiros will make a *current* Abaddon tank.

People see logi ships as OP or at least as formidable force multipliers, yet a armor rep bonus allow the Hyperion to have an integrated personal logi with far more survivability than the logi ship in question. In small gang, this bonus is invaluable, but as logi rep amount don't show on eft, people don't have anything to compare to I guess, and as the bonus is hard to make working and still vulnerable to neutralizers, HATE...

Of course, that bonus don't scale up really well, but I think the Hyperion now have enough to make for this (10% damage bonus, utility high, 7th low slot...) It's sad it had to lose the 8 guns for this, but nevermind.

For the Megathron though, it's really sad ; people really don't have any clue about what we could have had. Such blindness puzzle me.


making the bonus apply to include a reduction in cap will help out a ship thats already tight on cap to start with...

add the bonus to make heat better will add an added level to survivability... remember heat will add 10% as it stands with what i am proposing is making that 13.75% at lev V...

it wont op the bonus... what it will do is make it worth using the bonus...

though i think we are looking at it the wrong way... instead of boosting rr to include the ship bonus... how about we casterate RR and add some stacking penalty...

make RR sig radius affected so that way a capital RR will do hardly any repair to a frig... that way only a bs will get full potential RR from a tech II logi ship... if you are in a smaller ship you have to get smaller kinds of rr...

that way a tech I logi frig will rr a frig better then a tech II logi cruiser...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
TheFourteenthTry
Unicorn Balls
#1433 - 2013-04-10 23:38:00 UTC
I do like the Hyperion. Although the cap use reduction to armor reps would have been nice, and maybe less OP then giving it more drone versatility and more pew pew action. I do like the idea of less turrets and a utility, so in general nice fix. I am considering keeping my Hyperion even more now as my pve boat, and my even fit a blaster beast variation for some pvp fun too.

Mega. YES YES YES that is awesome, Ammo cost is gonna double though :D

Biggest issue is now with the Domi...

What is special about this ship now? (1500+ dps was special... and also very op)
seems like nothing much, drone damage and bandwidth capabilities are too close to the new and epically improved Arma. Just because its a space potato doesn't mean it should be neglected. it does have the tracking advantage, which although can be great in comparison to arma at applying the dps from drones. It is definitely not as flashy. Really doesn't need anything to make it OP, just a little something to give it some separation from the Arma. increased drone bay, is a decent suggestion. The tracking bonus most favors sentries (which take many m3's), and sentries have a lot of versatility to capitalize on in that class of drone. It could even get a sweet little armor rep, or even crazier a remote armor rep bonus (either in the form of reduced cap need, or like a 5% boost to local reppers)

Thoughts only thoughts. I have to say the whole ship rebalance has been a lot of fun.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1434 - 2013-04-10 23:41:49 UTC
to add to the idea of a RR nerf.

small RR will now have a sig radius of 35m

a medium 130m

a large 400m

capital 2500m

so if sig radius is > than target ship sig = a % in reduced affectiveness of RR

so if you have a large RR trying to rep a cruiser then you would take 130(sig radius of a mauler)/400 = 0.325 which means that large RR is now only 32.5% effective...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1435 - 2013-04-10 23:52:09 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Dude, we just got fleet megathrons. No idea what you're complaining about.

I'm not complaining, but we did have a fleet ship with the Hyperion in the first iteration, and it was better because of more effective turrets, more alpha and more tank. But because there was a "armor rep bonus" on it, people just discarded it for fleet job as if this was the worse aberration in the universe. But fine : people wanted the Megathron to be an amarrian fleet ship, we got it. I only think it's sad considering we are talking about gallente ships in this thread.

What's funny is that the Dominix have the same problem : people seem to prefer their drone ship as an amarr one, but they want it to be gallente and green.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1436 - 2013-04-11 00:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Dude, we just got fleet megathrons. No idea what you're complaining about.

I'm not complaining, but we did have a fleet ship with the Hyperion in the first iteration, and it was better because of more effective turrets, more alpha and more tank. But because there was a "armor rep bonus" on it, people just discarded it for fleet job as if this was the worse aberration in the universe. But fine : people wanted the Megathron to be an amarrian fleet ship, we got it. I only think it's sad considering we are talking about gallente ships in this thread.

What's funny is that the Dominix have the same problem : people seem to prefer their drone ship as an amarr one, but they want it to be gallente and green.


It's not an "Amarrian fleet ship" when Caldari and Minmatar do it better than the Amarr.

Unless you for some reason think only Amarr armor tank? Because before the changes, Caldari and Minmatar could shield tank at the fleet level, but only Amarr could armor tank. This fixed the problem. If the Mega gets the CPU boost it so desperately needs, it will be on the same level as the other three races.

Also, I'd like to point out that iteration 1 of the Hyperion was not really fleet capable, as the ship didn't have a damage bonus competitive with Minmatar to make up for the wasted bonus, and it has always had issues fitting rails.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1437 - 2013-04-11 00:03:32 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:


It's not an "Amarrian fleet ship" when Caldari and Minmatar do it better than the Amarr.
.


hmm what if large beams were not ****?

would this still be true?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1438 - 2013-04-11 00:06:17 UTC
This iteration of the Hyperion does fine as a fleet ship.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1439 - 2013-04-11 00:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
fukier wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:


It's not an "Amarrian fleet ship" when Caldari and Minmatar do it better than the Amarr.
.


hmm what if large beams were not ****?

would this still be true?


No, because the thing the Abaddon does better than the other two current fleet battleships is extreme damage + tracking in a smaller range envelope. Scorch more than makes up for the general shittiness of beams, it is the single best ammo in EVE.

Amarr has its niche, doing one thing better than any other race in fleets. Minmatar and Caldari are just more flexible when it comes to engagements.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1440 - 2013-04-11 00:07:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Andski wrote:
This iteration of the Hyperion does fine as a fleet ship.


I agree. He was talking about the previous one. This time it got a PG boost, better damage bonus, and more fitting flexibility.

10% damage bonus with a good slot layout. It is exemplary.