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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1361 - 2013-04-10 19:18:39 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Hyperion vs. Megathron.

Self quoting ftl, but the potential solution is to make the Hyperion the "attack BS" and Megathron the "combat BS". Adjust baseline speed and tanking stats accordingly.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1362 - 2013-04-10 19:28:41 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
In what way is proposed Megathron better than the proposed Hyperion?

Hyperion:
Better fitting stats. Check
Better baseline tank all around. Check
7 m/s slower than Mega. Hey, at least something is better for the Megathron.

5th mid = tracking computer/tracking speed. 30% tracking bonus. Check. Better tracking. There goes the Megathron bonus.

dps from Drones: 125 more dps from 2x Ogres II's. Check.
9 effective turrets vs 8.75. Check
One more utility high slot. Check

If Hyperion has no mag stabs, and Mega has one mag stab: 792 dps vs 815 dps. This difference could be accounted for with the launcher high slot of the Hyperion.

So, overall, Hyperion crowds into the Megathron space way too much. Why should I fly the Megathron? Not for rails. Other race's BS are clearly superior.

What is the Megathron's niche?

Edit: I think CCP is in a tough spot here. They clearly don't want to make the Megathron a good fleet ship by making it good with railguns (CPU...), and active repping bonuses suck, so they're left with two overlapping BS. Either Hyperion will be nerfed back to irrelevance, or it will crowd out the Megathron's engagement envelope. This is supposed to be about tiericide, but the Megathron has not been boosted to appropriate power level.

Mega has rate of fire bonus so that is more like 7x1.33 = 9.31 turrets.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1363 - 2013-04-10 19:29:22 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Tennessee Jack wrote:


If the bonuses are equivalent to 8 high slots.. could care less. We get more use off having mids and lows than we have having highs in these situations.

They're not. 8*1.25 = 10. 6*1.5 = 9, 7*1.25 = 8.75. Yikes.



Mega has a 5% rof bonus which works out to more than 25% basic damage bonus. I don't know the exact figure but I blieve the effective "damage donus" from a 25% rof bonus is actually more like a 33% damage bonus.

With that in mind the mega has 7 x 1.33 effective turrets which = 9.3

I'm sure that's more or less correct but please look into it further for me
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1364 - 2013-04-10 19:29:56 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Tennessee Jack wrote:


If the bonuses are equivalent to 8 high slots.. could care less. We get more use off having mids and lows than we have having highs in these situations.

They're not. 8*1.25 = 10. 6*1.5 = 9, 7*1.25 = 8.75. Yikes.

Wrong.
25% ROF = +33% dps increase.

So: 1.33*7 = 9.31 for the Megathron.

and 1.5 *6 = 9 for the Hyperion

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1365 - 2013-04-10 19:32:02 UTC
The drones make up the difference on the Hype, but neither has enough DPS at this point to make up for the deficiencies in the ships themselves.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1366 - 2013-04-10 19:36:45 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

They ninja bumped up the Dominix PG to 10k, and reduced the Armageddon PG to 13.5k.

As was pointed out earlier there is limited uses for that extra power grid with such a tight control range.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1367 - 2013-04-10 19:40:05 UTC
Hyperion vs Megathron

Base speed/agility: Megathron
Base Targeting Range/Resolution: Megathron
Signature: Megathron
Turret Damage: Megathron
Max Resists: Megathron

EHP: Hyperion
Active tanking: Hyperion
Max DPS: Hyperion
Utility: Hyperion

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1368 - 2013-04-10 19:40:46 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
The drones make up the difference on the Hype, but neither has enough DPS at this point to make up for the deficiencies in the ships themselves.


Nah, the Hype has more than enough DPS for having that much utility, but the Mega could use a smidge more.
Nabuch Sattva
The Green Cross
The Skeleton Crew
#1369 - 2013-04-10 19:42:59 UTC
Ok!! Much better second pass on the gallente line. Thanks Rise. Keep it up!

Love the way the hype is looking.

On the Mega, i think swapping to a 7/5/7 layout, would be better. Keeping the shield variety viable as well as more options for the armor version.

That would make 2 Gal BSs with the same slot layout, but with very different play styles.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1370 - 2013-04-10 19:43:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Hyperion vs Megathron

Base speed/agility: Megathron
Base Targeting Range/Resolution: Megathron
Signature: Megathron
Turret Damage: Megathron
Max Resists: Megathron

EHP: Hyperion
Active tanking: Hyperion
Max DPS: Hyperion
Utility: Hyperion



Essentially. I can honestly see the Megathron becoming a fleet ship too. The slot layout, tracking bonus and RoF bonus all make this ship very good at long range fleet ops of ye olde days. The Talos only beats it in mobility as the Mega will have range and the ability to survive getting alpha'd.

Edit: The Dominix does show enormous potential in that long range fleet role. If only sentry drones would orbit you and the fact that switching to Heavy drones when fighting at close range is a very viable option things could get very interesting. The only issue with the Dominix is simply the silly Armageddon right now
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1371 - 2013-04-10 19:51:56 UTC
OK, will adjust.
1056 dps for Megathron(1 mag stab), 956 dps for Hyperion + 36 for HAM = 990 dps.

We're down to 7 m/s and 66 more dps for "equivalently fit" Megathron vs Hyperion. Is that enough of a separation, or is Hyperion invading Megathron's niche too much?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1372 - 2013-04-10 19:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

They ninja bumped up the Dominix PG to 10k, and reduced the Armageddon PG to 13.5k.

As was pointed out earlier there is limited uses for that extra power grid with such a tight control range.

Such as an extra Heavy Energy Nuetralizer on the Domi perhaps?

Edit: Not saying that's great, but at least the Domi is starting to invade the Geddon's space like the Geddon has invaded the Domi's space.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1373 - 2013-04-10 19:55:01 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
OK, will adjust.
1056 dps for Megathron(1 mag stab), 956 dps for Hyperion + 36 for HAM = 990 dps.

We're down to 7 m/s and 66 more dps for "equivalently fit" Megathron vs Hyperion. Is that enough of a separation, or is Hyperion invading Megathron's niche too much?



I think the fact that the Hyperion steps on the toes of the Megathron in terms of mobility is actually intended. Gallente blaster boats after all are supposed to air towards being attack ships. The Megathron has the beauty of being a good combat or attack BS too.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1374 - 2013-04-10 19:58:51 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Hyperion vs. Megathron.

Self quoting ftl, but the potential solution is to make the Hyperion the "attack BS" and Megathron the "combat BS". Adjust baseline speed and tanking stats accordingly.


THIS is just logical... look at the hyperion its a giant thruster... the fact it is not the attack bs is just odd.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1375 - 2013-04-10 19:59:01 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:

They ninja bumped up the Dominix PG to 10k, and reduced the Armageddon PG to 13.5k.

As was pointed out earlier there is limited uses for that extra power grid with such a tight control range.

Such as an extra Heavy Energy Nuetralizer on the Domi perhaps?

Edit: Not saying that's great, but at least the Domi is starting to invade the Geddon's space like the Geddon has invaded the Domi's space.

Are walking about the Dominix or the Armageddon? To use the optimal bonus one does not need the extra grid, for close range the grid was not really needed. Hold for neutron blasters which are still way to tight to fit.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#1376 - 2013-04-10 20:02:29 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


Hyperion:

Here's the new and improved Hyperion. Based off of your feedback, this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6, while doubling its damage bonus from 5% per level to 10%. It also gains a larger drone bandwidth and bay, a utility high, and keeps its much-needed mid slot.

If anything, I'm worried this is too strong, but it should be an extremely fun ship to use. Hope you guys approve.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Large Hybrid Turret damage
+7.5% Armor Repair amount

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L(+1); 6 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG(+250), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 7500 / 8000 / 8500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 175(+75)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 485


Oh god. Dat ship. Loses a bit in damage, gains in flexibility, tank, and practical damage. I... I love you CCP Rise.

Quote:

Megathron:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M, 8L(+1); 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 15500 PWG, 570 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-50) / 75(-50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)


Hmmmm..... I like it, I think.

Quote:

Dominix:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)


I'm still a sad panda over this. I'm really hoping you leave the Navy Domi alone with the Hybrid + Drone damage bonus.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#1377 - 2013-04-10 20:08:47 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Tennessee Jack wrote:


If the bonuses are equivalent to 8 high slots.. could care less. We get more use off having mids and lows than we have having highs in these situations.

They're not. 8*1.25 = 10. 6*1.5 = 9, 7*1.25 = 8.75. Yikes.

Wrong.
25% ROF = +33% dps increase.

So: 1.33*7 = 9.31 for the Megathron.

and 1.5 *6 = 9 for the Hyperion


WRONG! According to CCP Rise it is 50% the dps increase ;-)
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#1378 - 2013-04-10 20:09:51 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Major Killz wrote:
Armageddon is will still be better than the Dominix solo or in large engagements. Why just shoot sentries when you can shoot lasers and sentries? I cant wait to try it out solo. Def does things I've wanted the Dominix to be able to do solo. As for the Megathron. We will see, but I feel I would rather use it with an active tank than the hype for near 2 times the cost. Not to say the hype is not good. I just like to watch my bank v0v
- killz

They ninja bumped up the Dominix PG to 10k, and reduced the Armageddon PG to 13.5k.



Interesting. That would solve some issues when comparing the to vessels. I can still put together a solid setup for fleet engagements with omnidirectional tracking links and adequate defenses.

As far as solo. I would be best served using 1 auxiliary armor repair and alot of buffer. I would still be able to engage pilots who were furthur away as well as close. The Dominix has always had that as a weakness but neutralizers and lasers can fix that.

To bad. I really wanted to see your team at CCP fail and get fired. Call me a C*NT but I like to see people fail and get hurt v0v. Makes me feel better about my lonely and miserable life. Too bad Roll


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1379 - 2013-04-10 20:10:13 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Tennessee Jack wrote:


If the bonuses are equivalent to 8 high slots.. could care less. We get more use off having mids and lows than we have having highs in these situations.

They're not. 8*1.25 = 10. 6*1.5 = 9, 7*1.25 = 8.75. Yikes.

Wrong.
25% ROF = +33% dps increase.

So: 1.33*7 = 9.31 for the Megathron.

and 1.5 *6 = 9 for the Hyperion


pretry sure drone bay makes up the difference...

plus the alpha on the hype is much better then the mega...

not saying alpha on blasters is much... but hey its something
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1380 - 2013-04-10 20:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: fukier
Liang Nuren wrote:

Dominix:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)

I'm still a sad panda over this. I'm really hoping you leave the Navy Domi alone with the Hybrid + Drone damage bonus.

-Liang


navy domi?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.