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Why risk versus reward doesn't matter
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#701 - 2013-04-09 23:00:03 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
But there's a risk he won't whine in local, or send you angry emails, or sperg to CCP about how evil you are and how they should totally reimburse him his ship.

And "payday" isn't necessarily just isk, although that's the most common definition.


I said, there is the risk there won't be tears in local. But there is always the reward you know that you caused a loss.

Unless you utterly fail at ganking, then the loss is a 100% certain fact.

I suppose the whole risk versus reward thing is objective.

You can always obtain self congradulating rewards for little or no risk.

[edit]

Kind of like posting on the forums.

Yes, you said that there's the risk there won't be tears, but you also said, multiple times, that there's no risk, because the outcome is certain. It's not absolutely certain, you could miscalculate the amount of DPS you have, vs the tank he has.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the only way you can remove any and all risk from the equation while ganking, is to give no fucks and aim to just get your ship blown up quicker than it would take you to self destruct. And even then there's the minute chance that you're "locked out" of hisec because your sec status is so low that faction police'll come gunning for you (or maybe everyone can shoot you without penalty if you're below -5 iirc).

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#702 - 2013-04-10 14:59:14 UTC
Alekksander Geinesa wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
But there's a risk he won't whine in local, or send you angry emails, or sperg to CCP about how evil you are and how they should totally reimburse him his ship.

And "payday" isn't necessarily just isk, although that's the most common definition.


I said, there is the risk there won't be tears in local. But there is always the reward you know that you caused a loss.

Unless you utterly fail at ganking, then the loss is a 100% certain fact.

I suppose the whole risk versus reward thing is objective.

You can always obtain self congradulating rewards for little or no risk.

[edit]

Kind of like posting on the forums.



Agreed...


but let me attempt to define:

Risk is the cost you have to pay if you fail. Regardless of what your reward is, risk is always the cost of failing.

The cost of an attempt at failing, is just the investment.

In high sec ganking your cost is the ship you want to use to gank, the risk is not getting your "payday" and your reward is your "payday"

However you define the words in " " is up to you.. some times you feel like a nut some times you don't


He gets it.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#703 - 2013-04-10 16:17:33 UTC
So when he says what I've been saying all along, he "gets it", while when I say it, it's "inane metaphors".

Got it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alekksander Geinesa
Divine Mortals
#704 - 2013-04-10 16:28:16 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
So when he says what I've been saying all along, he "gets it", while when I say it, it's "inane metaphors".

Got it.



If you can not explain it simply you do not understand it... your posts even made me feel like you didn't grasp it.......
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#705 - 2013-04-10 16:57:33 UTC
Alekksander Geinesa wrote:
but let me attempt to define:

Risk is the cost you have to pay if you fail. Regardless of what your reward is, risk is always the cost of failing.

The cost of an attempt at failing, is just the investment.
…and when you combine the cost and the probability you get a risk.

Quote:
In high sec ganking your cost is the ship you want to use to gank, the risk is not getting your "payday" and your reward is your "payday"
…and as part of that total risk, you have to calculate the risk of ship loss. No matter what, it still is a risk.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#706 - 2013-04-10 17:45:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Alekksander Geinesa wrote:
but let me attempt to define:

Risk is the cost you have to pay if you fail. Regardless of what your reward is, risk is always the cost of failing.

The cost of an attempt at failing, is just the investment.
…and when you combine the cost and the probability you get a risk.

Quote:
In high sec ganking your cost is the ship you want to use to gank, the risk is not getting your "payday" and your reward is your "payday"
…and as part of that total risk, you have to calculate the risk of ship loss. No matter what, it still is a risk.



Your argument is the letter "A" is no different than the letter "B" because they are both letters.

Never mind the fact the letter "A" means something different than the letter "B".

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alekksander Geinesa
Divine Mortals
#707 - 2013-04-10 20:01:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Alekksander Geinesa wrote:
but let me attempt to define:

Risk is the cost you have to pay if you fail. Regardless of what your reward is, risk is always the cost of failing.

The cost of an attempt at failing, is just the investment.
…and when you combine the cost and the probability you get a risk.

Quote:
In high sec ganking your cost is the ship you want to use to gank, the risk is not getting your "payday" and your reward is your "payday"
…and as part of that total risk, you have to calculate the risk of ship loss. No matter what, it still is a risk.



You are incorrect, but I feel like you know this and you are just trying to troll through people with various tip toes and loop holes of words....
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#708 - 2013-04-10 23:23:16 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mining permits are already a thing, and have been for a while now, how did you miss the threadnaughts and whinefests about the New Order?

It's not up to CCP to increase the cost of entry, it's down to us, the players to put such things in place. It's already been done in nullsec, maybe it's time it came to highsec.


Because those "permits" don't matter when CONCORD gets involved...?

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#709 - 2013-04-11 00:30:55 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mining permits are already a thing, and have been for a while now, how did you miss the threadnaughts and whinefests about the New Order?

It's not up to CCP to increase the cost of entry, it's down to us, the players to put such things in place. It's already been done in nullsec, maybe it's time it came to highsec.


Because those "permits" don't matter when CONCORD gets involved...?

I have seen the New Order permitting system in action and it is actually quite hysterical.

But I would prefer to have an actual permitting system in hi-sec, with flagging if someone mines without one. This would lead to the "do I attack the flagged miner or does he have a Tornado waiting to warp in?" It would also be nice to see someone flagged in open space rather than all the ones playing station games.

Note that this would and would not be risk versus reward. There is no actual extra reward for risk (not buying a permit) in regards to mining, but could be if applied differently. It would however be cost for benefit in all cases.
cytheras wrath
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#710 - 2013-04-11 01:01:29 UTC
CCP, Make Piracy in High sec based off factions!

Letter of Marque

enjoy!