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WH "Coalitions" Blobs, Blue Lists, and bob.

First post First post
Author
Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2013-04-10 15:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Indo Nira
Tecear wrote:
These huge blobs were always inevitable... we all knew this would happen, more and more people have been drawn into wormhole space, specifically upper class wormholes in the past year. It is only human nature to team up with others to defend a common belief, no one can stop that. Wormhole space is at a crossroads, do the leaders of w-space want to allow their corporations/alliances/coalitions to evict people who give goodfites and leave only groups who use 15 guards, multiple webbing lokis, and a few blap dreads? The day that all the groups who are not capable of fielding these numbers are evicted, is the day that wormhole space, or classical wormhole space will die.

There is still multiple ways of preventing this from happening, there needs to be less evictions and less log on traps and more good fair fights.

Just my opinion.



mmm... forum ate my post.

So how are you gonna make sure the fights stay fair? Give out free intel to your enemies? Tell 10 of your corp / alliance members to pos up while 20 of you have a brawl with some 'frienemies'?

eve and fair don't go together. Plus my view on evictions is that when you're enemy's backs are against a wall, they become more dangerous, but that's not always the case.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2013-04-10 15:38:12 UTC
Upset, not upset. Mad or not, its all irrelevant, this thread is tons of fun. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why Polarized. is trying to put a spin on this eviction, is there some sort of beauty pageant they are trying to win? Big smileBig smile
TunaKross
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2013-04-10 15:39:17 UTC
Guys, just stop. This pointing fingers is just going in circles. This is just getting embarrising for the Wh community.

The reason why eve is so great is because it is a sandbox. That means you can do what you want to do. That means if you want to team up with other corporations and kick another corporation in the butt then good! If you don't like it, then good aswell!

Wormhole coalitions and blue lists are here to stay.


After Bitten attempted a eviction of Artic Light not long ago we got to know these coalition matters first hand. We came in alone with no blues and no batphones but yet we were facing a massive coalition on the second day already. We wanted no part of that so we just decided to jump out and leave the system. Simple!

After we came back to Mira (our home wormhole) we had good discussion about how wormhole space is becoming and where these blue lists/coalitions where heading and if there were any way to turn this evolution around.

Our conclusion was that we would have more chance of getting into Jessica Alba's pants then having any effect on wh coalition and blue lists.

Point being, if people are complaining about these coalitions/blue lists then just put some ambition in building your corp to take things on your own and dont take part in the coalitions. If not then that is just equally fine as this is a sandbox.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#124 - 2013-04-10 15:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Indo Nira wrote:


mmm... forum ate my post.

So how are you gonna make sure the fights stay fair? Give out free intel to your enemies? Tell 10 of your corp / alliance members to pos up while 20 of you have a brawl with some 'frienemies'?

eve and fair don't go together. Plus my view on evictions is that when you're enemy's backs are against a wall, they become more dangerous, but that's not always the case.



If only wormholes had mass limits, some kind of upper limit to the amount of ships/shiptypes that could go through it.

It might be a longshot, but I suppose we would petition CCP.


The decision to "blob" is a personal one, and not some sort of unavoidable circumstance.

The blue lists, or more accurately "bluegrey" lists will always happen. to be cliche what matters is when they are blue, to when they are grey.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-04-10 15:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Indo Nira
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Indo Nira wrote:


mmm... forum ate my post.

So how are you gonna make sure the fights stay fair? Give out free intel to your enemies? Tell 10 of your corp / alliance members to pos up while 20 of you have a brawl with some 'frienemies'?

eve and fair don't go together. Plus my view on evictions is that when you're enemy's backs are against a wall, they become more dangerous, but that's not always the case.



If only wormholes had mass limits, some kind of upper limit to the amount of ships/shiptypes that could go through it.

It might be a longshot, but I suppose we would petition CCP.


The decision to "blob" is a personal one, and some sort of unavoidable circumstance.


But they don't have that mass limit right now. You can ask for that and it might actually happen, cause as far as i'm aware wormholes are pretty much the same as when they were released, and i do think a change is in order, because the situation has changed since then. But that's not the case right now and the OP asks about what you can do NOW.

And yeah the decision to blob is a personal one, one that is allowed for anyone to make. As you can decide to self destruct ships inside a pos shield.

I don't have to respect an 'honour' code if I didn't take it up myself. As Tuna said, this is a sandbox, and you can't tell me how to play this game.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-04-10 15:58:57 UTC
Bronya Boga wrote:

We saw Red alliance the other day :/


And so what, we will burn each other to the ground while we watch our loot prices drop, we'll watch gas prices drop, and T3 sales/mods will fall.

I am not an industry type person, I hate PvE and all that manufacturing stuff... but it doesn't take one to know that we fly our deadspace dreads, faction T3s, and multi-billion ships because we are able to expo and raise the ISK.

Supply and demand. These coalitions would prefer to supply themselves, it reduces costs. If we continue to allow it we will lose fights. People won't fight as much because losing a ship will set them back a long time (it's not just raising the isk for a ship but the logistics of bringing one in).

The null bear sects of coalitions have a lot of power, time, and resources to do this. They have people devoted to manufacture to support their machines. More than any of us can match once they figure it all out.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-04-10 16:01:19 UTC
Indo Nira wrote:

But they don't have that mass limit right now. You can ask for that and it might actually happen, cause as far as i'm aware wormholes are pretty much the same as when they were released, and i do think a change is in order, because the situation has changed since then. But that's not the case right now and the OP asks about what you can do NOW.

And yeah the decision to blob is a personal one, one that is allowed for anyone to make. As you can decide to self destruct ships inside a pos shield.

I don't have to respect an 'honour' code if I didn't take it up myself. As Tuna said, this is a sandbox, and you can't tell me how to play this game.


How did you miss that sarcasm? Every wormhole has a mass limit.

so when you share a static or roll into another entity, you have a limited composition, even with a c5/c6 hole. This is where you make the decision between having a fight up to 45/45 per side, or seed in multiple roles to double or triple the number.

That's the decision one makes, and the reflection on what they want. You want a blobfest? spend days seeding.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2013-04-10 16:04:04 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Indo Nira wrote:

But they don't have that mass limit right now. You can ask for that and it might actually happen, cause as far as i'm aware wormholes are pretty much the same as when they were released, and i do think a change is in order, because the situation has changed since then. But that's not the case right now and the OP asks about what you can do NOW.

And yeah the decision to blob is a personal one, one that is allowed for anyone to make. As you can decide to self destruct ships inside a pos shield.

I don't have to respect an 'honour' code if I didn't take it up myself. As Tuna said, this is a sandbox, and you can't tell me how to play this game.


How did you miss that sarcasm? Every wormhole has a mass limit.

so when you share a static or roll into another entity, you have a limited composition, even with a c5/c6 hole. This is where you make the decision between having a fight up to 45/45 per side, or seed in multiple roles to double or triple the number.

That's the decision one makes, and the reflection on what they want. You want a blobfest? spend days seeding.



3bil hole = at least 200 cruisers
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-04-10 16:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Indo Nira wrote:

3bil hole = at least 200 cruisers


Need mass for return trip (who wants to spend the next 3 hours rolling out from the static they just closed themselves into?), and potential for escalation.

Also, account for possible enemy movement through the hole.

this is why escalation happens (and Bob yes I love when it does).

You have 10 guardians? Let's throw an Archon in. Oh they brought a dread? Bring a Bhaal. Suddenly those 200 cruisers aren't possible.


c'mon now we're not min/maxing. Most of us will escalate with a capital when it's a good fight.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2013-04-10 16:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Indo Nira
Vincent Gaines wrote:

Need mass for return trip, and potential for escalation.

Also, account for possible enemy movement through the hole.



OK, you can't commit to a fight cause you need to run in case of bad things happening, you are tlost after all. The people who had a coalition with TALUN last year with a total of about 1.2k members and still needed nullsec help to try fend off an invasion.

Also i don't need to account for 'possible enemy movement' when i ROLLED INTO THEM.
Also i rounded up the mass / cruiser to about 20 when in fact it's more like 15-16.
ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#131 - 2013-04-10 16:39:45 UTC
Greetings

As this is a friendly reminder to keep the pyramid posting and rants to a minimum. Might I suggest that if you are posting on a thread for the plus one-hundred post, you take a moment to read the original post as this might help focus the topic back on to the original post. This goes a long way to keep things on track.

On On

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#132 - 2013-04-10 16:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Indo Nira wrote:
[
OK, you can't commit to a fight cause you need to run in case of bad things happening, you are tlost after all. The people who had a coalition with TALUN last year with a total of about 1.2k members and still needed nullsec help to try fend off an invasion.

Also i don't need to account for 'possible enemy movement' when i ROLLED INTO THEM.
Also i rounded up the mass / cruiser to about 20 when in fact it's more like 15-16.


I point out your mistakes, you start trying to reach for insults Roll

It's not running, it's called "I don't want to spend hours flying back to my hole after a fight that may or may not happen."

We have intentionally closed holes behind us to commit. Not one time since August have I ever been in a fleet fight that has run as you describe it. However if you call disengaging and backing through a hole when the fight goes south..well hell I can recall plenty of times Exhale or any other entity has done that.

I recall many times rolling into Exhale and nobody bothered to fleet up either.

So stop with the insults, you make yourself and your alliance look bad.


Keeping this back on topic, many things are done to prevent a huge buildup. To be honest though once numbers become too high people will just not bother. In your case, if TL has 30 people online and you roll in with 200 T3s, we wil ask for an even fight. If you say no, tell me exactly why we, or anyone else for that matter, would just willingly sacrifice our ships (and likely pods?)

It was said earlier by one of you Polarized people- this game isn't meant to play fair. You can make the decision to, or decide not to. It's not about honor it's about making wise decisions.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

SojournerRover
Explorer Corps
#133 - 2013-04-10 18:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: SojournerRover
As in the immortal words of Rodney King!
Cant we all just get along?

DJ was just the latest that ticked them off and you will never change the blues, Hell they are all blue even if they say they are not.
So live with it or move.

LOL

Oh by the way, I suck at diplomacy!

[b][u]ROVER[/u] (REDRUM)[/b]

Torshawna
Dutch Rudder Trading Company
#134 - 2013-04-10 19:50:34 UTC
SojournerRover wrote:


Oh by the way, I suck at diplomacy!


So far you are doing pretty good in this thread! ;)
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2013-04-10 20:01:59 UTC
I have a question for everyone:

Should the major wormhole alliances sign some sort of non intervention pact to help govern invasions/evictions?

Effectively this would mean if one alliance invaded another wormhole, the defenders would be "breaking the rules" if they batphone for help.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#136 - 2013-04-10 20:12:14 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I have a question for everyone:

Should the major wormhole alliances sign some sort of non intervention pact to help govern invasions/evictions?

Effectively this would mean if one alliance invaded another wormhole, the defenders would be "breaking the rules" if they batphone for help.

This would get broken in an eyebeat, and someone would get delicious tears harvested out of it.

Trying to make anything formal is likely to result in delicious tears.
Torshawna
Dutch Rudder Trading Company
#137 - 2013-04-10 20:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Torshawna
Rek Seven wrote:
I have a question for everyone:

Should the major wormhole alliances sign some sort of non intervention pact to help govern invasions/evictions?

Effectively this would mean if one alliance invaded another wormhole, the defenders would be "breaking the rules" if they batphone for help.


And what if someone unintentionally rolled into the system? Would you then expect them not to get involved?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2013-04-10 20:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
don't answer questions with questions mate. If you have a comment, make it Blink
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#139 - 2013-04-10 20:24:54 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I have a question for everyone:

Should the major wormhole alliances sign some sort of non intervention pact to help govern invasions/evictions?

Effectively this would mean if one alliance invaded another wormhole, the defenders would be "breaking the rules" if they batphone for help.


When I was in 2nd grade, I got into an argument with another boy. It was interrupted with the end of recess. Later on that day he came to me with a few of his friends with a cute handwritten "contract" to fight at the neighborhood playground the following day (it was a Friday).

I asked him to hold it while I signed, and when he turned to put the paper against the wall I grabbed the back of his head and slammed it into the aforementioned wall. He fell and I started kicking him in the stomach until his friends pulled me off.


tl;dr: No.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Torshawna
Dutch Rudder Trading Company
#140 - 2013-04-10 20:41:09 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
don't answer questions with questions mate. If you have a comment, make it Blink


It was a legitimate question to your proposal. But, since it seems you don't want to answer my question, what Vincent said.