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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
#1181 - 2013-04-10 11:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Aideron
Why not make the Megathron into a combat BS and the Hyperion an attack BS?

Consider:
*The Megathron with a utility high, good dronebay (beautifully modeled on the hull I might add), more capacitor, more fittings and more ehp plus double rate of fire and tracking gun bonuses (no wasted hull bonus in gangs with RR) would make a good combat battleship even with only 7 lows and would be more in keeping with the classic ship role.

While the Hyperion uses active reps so it's doesn't need as much raw hp, plus it uses active tanking rigs rather than trimarks which suits an attack battleship better due to the higher overall speed. It's 8 turrets and 8/5/6 layout allows it to both do a mean active armour tank and a shield dps gankboat. Active tanking is more suitable for small gangs and solo where the increased agility of an attack designation would be appreciated.

I don't think these current changes are that bad in regards to gameplay, but they are aesthetically unsatisfying. We'll have a Megathron with an impressive looking dronebay that has barely has any drones, and an awkward looking Hyperion with 6 turrets and 8 mounts.

You changed the Vexor and the Thorax roles around once already, consider doing the same here.

Another question: What does a turret fitted armour dominix do with six mid slots given that it doesn't really need any omnidirectional tracking links? Why not give the Dominix a different second bonus (rather than tracking & optimal) and just let players fit omnis if they want that?
Zu'ferna
Astral Horizons
#1182 - 2013-04-10 11:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zu'ferna
While I love the Dominix changes and want the bonus to stay, I have one thing to say... Armageddon is the new Dominix. You took one of the Dominix's primary uses, and gave the bonus to the Armageddon. Ugh.

Don't fly the Mega or Hyperion so no input on them other than something needs to be done to the Hyperion. I think I've only ever seen two in space.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1183 - 2013-04-10 11:48:19 UTC
God damn it, why did you put the megas utility high to a low slot? Please put it on the mids, please please please. It doesn't need more lows, it needs another mid. The problem with the previous changes was taking away the low for a mid. Taking the high and putting it on the mid would be much better.

Hype change is finally good, it'll still diaf to tier 3 bc's x 3, but at least it'll do it in style.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

Blanche Lee
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1184 - 2013-04-10 11:53:29 UTC
Shocked I think previous Megathron is good, attack and defense, and so on conform to the characteristics of gallente, also not especially well in the actual performance and the bad.
So there is no changes necessary.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#1185 - 2013-04-10 11:53:44 UTC
Lovely changes, going to train into Hyperion after Proteus is maxed out in every corner. Bear
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#1186 - 2013-04-10 11:55:39 UTC
Johnny Aideron wrote:
Why not make the Megathron into a combat BS and the Hyperion an attack BS?

Consider:
*The Megathron with a utility high, good dronebay (beautifully modeled on the hull I might add), more capacitor, more fittings and more ehp plus double rate of fire and tracking gun bonuses (no wasted hull bonus in gangs with RR) would make a good combat battleship even with only 7 lows and would be more in keeping with the classic ship role.

While the Hyperion uses active reps so it's doesn't need as much raw hp, plus it uses active tanking rigs rather than trimarks which suits an attack battleship better due to the higher overall speed. It's 8 turrets and 8/5/6 layout allows it to both do a mean active armour tank and a shield dps gankboat. Active tanking is more suitable for small gangs and solo where the increased agility of an attack designation would be appreciated.

I don't think these current changes are that bad in terms oif gameplay, but they are aesthetically unsatisfying. We'll have a Megathron with an impressive looking dronebay that has barely has any drones, and an awkward looking Hyperion with 6 turrets and 8 mounts.

You changed the Vexor and the Thorax roles around once already, consider doing the same here.

Another question: What does a turret fitted armour dominix do with six mid slots given that it doesn't really need any omnidirectional tracking links? Why not give the Dominix a different second bonus to tracking & optimal and just let players fit omnis if they want that?


tank bonus = combat variant.
tracking = attack variant.

hyperion cant be attack battleship with tanking bonus
Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#1187 - 2013-04-10 11:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tennessee Jack
Split on the changes myself. Will have to look at it.

Trying to come to this answer.

I have Gallente BS to 5. Have the BS's come far enough that I no longer have to train Amarr BS to 5.

The Dominix still needs something. Dunno what but it needs something.

The new Mega and Hyperion.. dunno yet.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1188 - 2013-04-10 11:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

Aren't Dominix missing a slot? All other ships have 19, while Dominix only have 18.

By design. Drone ships have 1 less slot.

Then make it 5/5/8 for god's blessing.
Or 5/6/7, if you want more utility, than tank or damage.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

JamesCLK
#1189 - 2013-04-10 11:57:37 UTC
I want that Mega in so many ways right now...

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
#1190 - 2013-04-10 11:58:50 UTC
Shpenat wrote:


hyperion cant be attack battleship with tanking bonus


But it's only a tank bonus if you actually use an active tank with it. You might use it as a fast shield gankboat, or a small gang/solo fast battleship with the active tank in place of RR, which seem to suit an attack role. If used in a larger fleet it will simply be fitted with a passive tank and recieve remote reps so it won't, in that context, have a tank bonus at all.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1191 - 2013-04-10 12:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
Well this all looks fairly interesting and certainly appreciate CCP addressing the concerns laid out. Overall these look fairly solid though we'll have to see how it all works out once they come out on Sisi.

1) Hyperion looks much better. While pound for pound it may be a bit stronger compared to other BS's, I think its ok due to the way its used in small gangs and its lack of mobility make this a fine trade off. How often you ever see a BS 1 v 1 anyways? So overall I look forward to using it. At the end of the day when its active tanked its dps is rather weak and having to use small guns makes it still very niche. The shield tanked version may be a bit of an issue, but those die pretty quick anyways with that paper tank.

2) The Mega. Wow, 8 bottom slots. Interesting. Though I'm not sure how it will pan out but I suspect its not going to be as uber as people think due to fitting space but I haven't worked it out yet so I could be wrong. For those complaining about the bump to the Mega's speed and making it too fast, especially in comparison to the Mael, this fit obviously plays to buffer armor and once you throw those 3 tri-marks and plates on its still a slow cow. And its DPS projection is still weak made worse with the drone reduction. I'll reserve judgement until I can start playing with all the fittings but I think the APOC will be the boat of choice. Insane range and Mega tracking with Scorch. The tracking is what really made the Mega sweet. APOC is now just OMG awesome. By the way it cracks me up when people use void as the ammo to talk DPS. At least when you do please note range and tracking speed of your guns when you do so. A boat can have a million DPS in this game and it doesn't matter a whiff if it cannot apply it effectively.

3) Domi... very torn. I mean the whole RR Domi thing can be fun and with sentries it will be cool, but if your going to spend the isk, why not just alpha stuff in Mael's? They are all going to cost the same and once you put all those ridiculously expensive sentries into a Domi it will probably be the most expensive overall to fit (just guessing.) and none of the draw backs. I guess for killing structures this will be a good boat? Seems more PVE oriented really. meh.
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1192 - 2013-04-10 12:05:43 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.


Stop being bad and fit c-type adaptives
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1193 - 2013-04-10 12:07:00 UTC
ZOMG That Megathron is the sexiest thing I've ever seen in eve ever! TY TY TY TY TY! :D

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1194 - 2013-04-10 12:07:15 UTC
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.


Stop being bad and fit c-type adaptives

Don't balance a ship around dead space, faction and officer mods.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1195 - 2013-04-10 12:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Askulf Joringer
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.


Stop being bad and fit c-type adaptives

Don't balance a ship around dead space, faction and officer mods.


Yeah, lets not balance a ship around available content... With this argument, we may as well balance everything with t1.

If you're having cpu issues, just like the mega and geddon have had in the past, go and fit a c-type adaptive instead of a t2 eanm. It pretty much solves the problem. If you're afraid of risking a "cheap" dead space module then go ahead and fit a co-proc.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1196 - 2013-04-10 12:10:27 UTC
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.


Stop being bad and fit c-type adaptives

Don't balance a ship around dead space, faction and officer mods.


Yeah, lets not balance a ship around available content... With this argument, we may as well balance every with t1.

If you balance the ship around dead space, faction and officer mods then the ship has to use them to be effective, and that sets an unacceptable barrier for vets vs. noobs.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

JamesCLK
#1197 - 2013-04-10 12:11:02 UTC
Something just occurred to me...
Would a mass reduction role bonus for Attack Battleships be out of place?

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1198 - 2013-04-10 12:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Askulf Joringer
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.


Stop being bad and fit c-type adaptives

Don't balance a ship around dead space, faction and officer mods.


Yeah, lets not balance a ship around available content... With this argument, we may as well balance every with t1.

If you balance the ship around dead space, faction and officer mods then the ship has to use them to be effective, and that sets an unacceptable barrier for vets vs. noobs.


except that isk has nothing to do with being a vet or noob and a c-type dead space adaptive takes less SP to use than a t2 eanm. c-type adaptive has been a stable cpu saving module since like forever. It has nothing to do with vet vs noob, stop being bad.
David Kir
Hotbirds
#1199 - 2013-04-10 12:13:43 UTC
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.


Stop being bad and fit c-type adaptives

Don't balance a ship around dead space, faction and officer mods.


Yeah, lets not balance a ship around available content... With this argument, we may as well balance every with t1.



Exactly!
I want my Guristas Shuttle balanced around the Rattlesnake!
Oh, true, and my Rifter balanced with the Moros!

Oh come on, fitting C-types should not be a prerequisite to being able to properly fit a ship.

Deadspace/faction/officer modules are the icing on the cake, not the wheat it's made with...

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1200 - 2013-04-10 12:14:34 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Askulf Joringer wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.


Stop being bad and fit c-type adaptives

Don't balance a ship around dead space, faction and officer mods.


Yeah, lets not balance a ship around available content... With this argument, we may as well balance every with t1.

If you balance the ship around dead space, faction and officer mods then the ship has to use them to be effective, and that sets an unacceptable barrier for vets vs. noobs.


Well then use a T2 ANP, christ