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More NPC's - Randomly Generated Modular Content

Author
Stegas Tyrano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-06 13:59:40 UTC
+1 I particularly like the idea of having random NPC's that will dynamically present a person with a mission. It's much better to have this then what is currently in place, i.e. dock, press button, receive mission. The current mission system is really poor.

Herping your derp since 19Potato - [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2403364][Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts[/url]

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#22 - 2013-04-06 16:34:32 UTC
+1

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#23 - 2013-04-07 16:41:30 UTC
randomly generated modular content

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Zero Vigilant
Adamantine Corporation
#24 - 2013-04-07 16:51:31 UTC
+1
El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#25 - 2013-04-07 19:42:34 UTC
Faulx wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
...because it is just immersion.

Like... a chronical... and certainly no one wastes any time on those... (Chronical Portal).

Daichi Yamato wrote:
keep in mind, this is an MMO PvP sandbox game. not a single player or even co-op game. do not rely on NPC's for ur content, u should be making it urself.

Having NPCs that take actions in the game doesn't stop this from being a Player Sandbox. It just gives players a pre-built "Sand Castles" to play in... or knock over. *edit: ...or build on...

Zan Shiro wrote:
What he is getting at. Eve is player run. NPC's don't put on shows for us, we make our own shows. It just so happens pvp is where this stands out better.

Yes... NPCs certainly don't put on shows for us (and players certainly have no influence in them):

Sakuuvestaa LE
Battle for Caldari Prime
Algogille LE
Minmatar Unity LE
Evaulon LE
Ohkunen LE
Example Sansha LE
Elder Fleet fluff
Seyllin Event
Ect....

Basically this thread is advocating the same thing just automated.


:)
Luc Chastot
#26 - 2013-04-07 22:07:53 UTC
I can't think of any bad that increased immersion would do to the game, honestly.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#27 - 2013-04-08 12:45:04 UTC
Exactly!

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#28 - 2013-04-08 14:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
yeah, mining, trading and exploration are all competitive. that makes it PvP. even ur wallet balance is PvP because ur competing with other ppl for buying power. it is that which then leads to inflation. however, it is so abstract its understandable that most ppl wouldn't class it as such.

Faulx wrote:

Like... a chronical... and certainly no one wastes any time on those... (Chronical Portal).


butt hurt much?
i like chronicles and i read them too. but do u realise how little of the entire eve experience they make up? so little that i've never spoken about them in game. i'm under the impression that only a small amount of the player base reads them. CCP abraxas is the main writer for chronicles, and this is his main job within CCP. other chronicles written by other devs are like side projects, other chronicles might be outsourced work. their creation does not take from in game development. implentations like the OP's suggestions would take major dev time up.

Faulx wrote:

Having NPCs that take actions in the game doesn't stop this from being a Player Sandbox. It just gives players a pre-built "Sand Castles" to play in... or knock over. *edit: ...or build on...

thats fine...i was just wondering why we needed it. why not kick over or build on other players' sand castles instead? at least they would react like individuals rather than robots, and it would be far more interesting just for that.

Faulx wrote:

Yes... NPCs certainly don't put on shows for us (and players certainly have no influence in them):

Sakuuvestaa LE
Battle for Caldari Prime
Algogille LE
Minmatar Unity LE
Evaulon LE
Ohkunen LE
Example Sansha LE
Elder Fleet fluff
Seyllin Event
Ect....

Basically this thread is advocating the same thing just automated.


are all these events where devs (human players) took on control of the ships? if what ur asking is something more automated, then the AI would have set behaviour. they wont think like u or i, they would never adapt like human players, they would become predictable and boring. Incursions were very cool, until u knew exactly how they behaved and could run them so easily it becomes a grind. the same thing would happen with anything that depends on NPC AI.

immersion is fine, but why cant u join a navy faction and play the navy ship hunting pirates?
why cant u and ur friends be the mining expedition? and have to defend urselves from other players?
surely that would be more immersive. why such dependance on NPC's?
most ppl in eve dnt think of the game with a pre-built universe and history, they think of it as an environment where the players make themselves the story.
Eve's history is the delve wars, historical scams, the jita protest, burn jita, hulkageddons and other such PLAYER events

MC Tortuga
goons
Burn Jita
Dronelands war
R+K Clarion Call
First ever combat titan kill
Hulkageddon

edit-
Delve war?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#29 - 2013-04-09 10:41:42 UTC
You sure are against having more interesting NPC's aren't you daichi?

There seems to be more players who are for dynamic content than against, I have more than a few friends who don't play because there's nothing for them to explore, with modular/dynamic content PvE (something you are saying doesn't exist) would be more interesting and instigate more actions/reactions, as an example a while ago the arek jaalen site one was attacked, the players who wanted to defend the site had no means to because the content isn't in place to allow it, had the aggressors been suspect flagged however (something which is new) things would have been different.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#30 - 2013-04-09 12:10:10 UTC
Loki Feiht wrote:
You sure are against having more interesting NPC's aren't you daichi?

There seems to be more players who are for dynamic content than against, I have more than a few friends who don't play because there's nothing for them to explore, with modular/dynamic content PvE (something you are saying doesn't exist) would be more interesting and instigate more actions/reactions, as an example a while ago the arek jaalen site one was attacked, the players who wanted to defend the site had no means to because the content isn't in place to allow it, had the aggressors been suspect flagged however (something which is new) things would have been different.



NPC's arent interesting, even ur idea is boring, but thats opinion.

dynamic content? u mean entities with preset behaviour that spawn at the role of a dice? thats not dynamic. it does not adapt and it does not change. it is just randomly selected preset spawns. once u've seen every spawn, each one after it will be identical. Incursion spawns are 'dynamic', even mission spawns can change, but u'll hardly notice. sleeper spawns in WH space will spawn more battleships if u bring a carrier into the site, but of course we know that already and can predict it in such a way that it isn't a surprise, or even threatening. the only thing that raises ur heart beat and actually makes u start paying attention in a WH is an unknown PLAYER on D-scan.

i'm not against adding content, even NPC content, save for when i think dev time could be better spent.

if u could tell me the actions/reactions that this idea could lead to that cannot be already better achieved through player interactions then i may change my mind.

as for ur alek jaalen site, it was so crucial to the game, i dnt even know what it is. and neither do the vast majority of players. a quick google search of 'alek jaalen eve' shows how insignificant it is. the players more interested in such content are a minority because this IS a PvP based MMO sand box game. its not really designed around ppl who want to team up with their friends and shoot NPC's. it prefers players to team up with their friends and shoot other players. in contrast to the alek jaalen search, google 'delve war' 'hulkageddon' or 'burn jita; without even adding in 'eve' and look at what u get. ur friends might have the right idea by just not playing a game that they know isnt for them.

most players probably realise this thread is going no where and skipped it over. i've been trying to point that out, and why, but meh...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-04-09 12:39:28 UTC
Loki Feiht wrote:
You sure are against having more interesting NPC's aren't you daichi?

There seems to be more players who are for dynamic content than against, I have more than a few friends who don't play because there's nothing for them to explore, with modular/dynamic content PvE (something you are saying doesn't exist) would be more interesting and instigate more actions/reactions, as an example a while ago the arek jaalen site one was attacked, the players who wanted to defend the site had no means to because the content isn't in place to allow it, had the aggressors been suspect flagged however (something which is new) things would have been different.



The entire idea is impossible.
The closest you'd come to interresting NPCs would be if they ran gang links, started repping each others, had massive active tanks so you'd have to go all pvpish on them.

However EVEs already got it, it's called pvp.
Eve is centered around PVP. I think it'd be interresting to start with, but once you've done it a few times it'd become just as boring as regular content. It'd have to be in a constant development to increase difficulty along side with good loot to make it worth it.
Not only that but you'd have to grab fleets to counter it, so it'd be like incursions.

What you're asking for is playing against bots in a mmo that's based around PVP.
Join a big nullbear alliance and go pvp there, that's what you're basically asking for. I'm sorry that you have to interact with other players, to get an excitement in eve. Do like the rest of us do.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 

Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#32 - 2013-04-09 23:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Feiht
Exactly what would dev time be better spent on? The Apocrypha expansion has been one of their best with changes to exploration coming in the Odyssey expansion.

A small example is you probe and run a combat site in highsec, the expedition dialogue comes up and you are given 3 leads

1. follows a pirate to lowsec (chain of events which depending on choice could take you to 0.0) chance for good loot
2. a pirate to highsec (chain of events which may lead to lowsec) chance for mediocre loot
3. follows a neutral npc (chain of events possibly leading to chance to aid npc or to kill it, gain suspect flag if you kill it+ (site becomes visible on overview) standings gain/loss+chance of average loot)

PvE on the whole is a very 'static' affair with a high percentage of the player base ratting, running missions or anomalies within a very tiny cluster of systems with exploration and PvP being good reasons to move around and even then a lot of players focus their PvP in a very small cluster of systems, with exploration this isn't usually the case. Exploration expeditions usually come in chains but no choices, storyline missions could at least follow the trend, even the illusion of choice would break gameplay up considerably and add to the already present skinner box of eve but more importantly would get players moving around the universe in search of better rewards.

In short, the more players moving around the more chance for player interaction.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#33 - 2013-04-10 01:54:53 UTC
Loki Feiht wrote:


In short, the more players moving around the more chance for player interaction.


thats what u pin ur idea on? that the more players there are moving around the more they will interact?
i'd like to see what evidence u have that would suggest players dnt move around already. day to day PvP may consist of roaming ur 'hunting grounds'. But if the rewards are worth it, PvP'ers can, and do, travel anywhere. freighters haul from one end of the galaxy to the other. epic arcs send u from one place to the next running missions WITH choices, random spawns and varying degrees of loot etc etc.

If u think PvE is static, then do some PvP. rather than just jumping into a WH for half an hour, take a risk and explore into the depths of WH space. why dnt u explore WH's more and deeper and see where the sandbox takes u rather than pre-set storylines? take on other WH dwellers and reap the rewards from them.

or is there something u like about predictably riskless enemies that behave more like loot pinata's than credible threats?

if apocrypha was a good expansion, ive been told Crucible was the best received expansion CCP have ever made. because it wasn't about trying to bring new parts to the game, it was about fixing existing parts of the game, balances and little tweaks. it was basically a tune up of eve rather than an expansion. at the moment we are undergoing a complete ship rebalance, module tweaks, user interface tweaks and so many other things right now. and far more pressing matters than little bits of immersion are sov mechanics, drones AI, war dec mechanics, local as perfect intel, moon goo in hi-sec, POS UI. take ur bloody pick!

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-04-10 06:20:01 UTC
Loki Feiht wrote:
Exactly what would dev time be better spent on?


Pos, overview, Balancing ships. There's a bunch of stuff that needs fixing.
Check this link, they were talking about it yesterday... They don't wanna make PVE focused content because it most likely mean you're doing it alone.

http://da.twitch.tv/ccp/b/388692587

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 

El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#35 - 2013-04-10 15:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
I personally like the idea of more npc's and yeah, from my experience people do tend to do all their pve/pvp in the same group of systems, ive come across loads of people whos kb's just show the same system for pages and pages, I think its only a tiny minority of players who actually travel

btw daichi, your idea of w-space doesn't sound at all like my experience living in them

also I watched that yesterday but will watch it again, soundwave said he wanted more meaningful gameplay so someone who runs missions every day could have have more of an impact space and the area around him being more interesting than just agents you get missions from

I do agree that i'd like to see a lot of other things worked on, especially drone ai/ui but npc contents always a bonus, my income comes mostly from trading, I enjoy pvp and exploration but find any sort of grinding extremely boring, so I dislike sov, missions etc
maciek9
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#36 - 2013-04-10 21:09:02 UTC
awsome idea

+1
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#37 - 2013-04-10 23:25:07 UTC
El Geo wrote:


btw daichi, your idea of w-space doesn't sound at all like my experience living in them



watQuestion

so ur not more likely to run into better sites and other players if u have a semi-nomadic life in WH's than if u just jump in for a half hour, run a single site and then leave again because u dnt want to be out of hi-sec for an undeterminate amount of time?

seems logical to me that spending days or weeks in WH's means u can explore more WH's and run more sites. this should inevitably lead to more interactions with other players and finding better sites. maybe u get lucky in ur half hour, but u reduce ur chances by simply hopping in for half an hour and then leaving before u get noticed by other players. or at least thats how it has worked in my experience.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#38 - 2013-04-11 11:11:22 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
El Geo wrote:


btw daichi, your idea of w-space doesn't sound at all like my experience living in them



watQuestion

so ur not more likely to run into better sites and other players if u have a semi-nomadic life in WH's than if u just jump in for a half hour, run a single site and then leave again because u dnt want to be out of hi-sec for an undeterminate amount of time?

seems logical to me that spending days or weeks in WH's means u can explore more WH's and run more sites. this should inevitably lead to more interactions with other players and finding better sites. maybe u get lucky in ur half hour, but u reduce ur chances by simply hopping in for half an hour and then leaving before u get noticed by other players. or at least thats how it has worked in my experience.


So you've never lived in w-space yet you feel you have the experience to talk about it? Well done.....
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#39 - 2013-04-11 11:15:36 UTC
Anyway, more NPC's!!!!

~ Secret Navy/concord/corporation bases (signatures) where you can get navy/lp store items drop from new officers and with choices to leave alone/help or destroy (which obviously gives you a suspect flag)

Yay \o/

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#40 - 2013-04-11 13:47:27 UTC
El Geo wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
El Geo wrote:


btw daichi, your idea of w-space doesn't sound at all like my experience living in them



watQuestion

so ur not more likely to run into better sites and other players if u have a semi-nomadic life in WH's than if u just jump in for a half hour, run a single site and then leave again because u dnt want to be out of hi-sec for an undeterminate amount of time?

seems logical to me that spending days or weeks in WH's means u can explore more WH's and run more sites. this should inevitably lead to more interactions with other players and finding better sites. maybe u get lucky in ur half hour, but u reduce ur chances by simply hopping in for half an hour and then leaving before u get noticed by other players. or at least thats how it has worked in my experience.


So you've never lived in w-space yet you feel you have the experience to talk about it? Well done.....


if u could be more specific and quote the part where i wasw talking like some WH guru it might help. cause right now i have absolutely no ******* idea about what ur bashing ur chest about.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs