Player Features and Ideas Discussion

After having read through every post in the thread for the proposed Minmatar battleship changes, it seems pretty much every post is unhappy with the current trend of making the Minmatar ships heavier and boosting their signature radius, and generally taking away the unique essence of the Minmatar ships which many pilots have enjoyed for many years thus far.

CCP Rise has asked the community for help on balancing the ships, and so I've decided to make this thread with a proposal from the Minmatar BS pilot community.

I have taken the essence of what many players seemed to have been unhappy with in the current proposals, and come up with a rough draft of perhaps an alternative concept which would please many more players. Obviously these proposals are quite crude compared to a full on balance review which could be carried out by CCPs internal staff, but I think it would help if we, the players, helped by giving an idea of the concept and general rough draft of what we would like to see.

The main focus of the proposal below is to switch the roles of the Tempest and the Typhoon as many felt the respective ships had been pigeon holed into the wrong roles, and therefore enabling both ships to maintain a degree of their original versatility and uniqueness, whilst at the same time bringing them in line with the rest of the tiericided ships.

I will update the proposals below with feedback received in this thread and hopefully it may be of some use to CCP Rise and the balance team. I have boldened any changes which deviate from the proposals made by CCP Rise.


Tempest:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG, 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6900 (-100) / 6900 (-400) / 6500 (-300)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 (+10) / .11 (-0.1) / 101050000 / ??
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 350 (-10)


Typhoon:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher explosion velocity

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets, 5 launchers (-1)
Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500 / 6000 / 6000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1087s / 4.97
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11 / 103600000 / 15.8
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 (+25) / 200 (+100)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 330[/quote]


I can imagine fitting the Typhoon proposed above something like this

[Typhoon, Typhoon]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

100MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Hobgoblin II x10
Ogre II x6


The torp launchers put out 826 dps at max skills, the unbonused autos would put out an extra 111 dps, then unbonused heavy drones an additional 317.

This way the Typhoon still can fully utilise all 3 weapon systems, including a decently sized drone bay, and does not simply become and armoured Raven.

Looks quite fun to fit and fly, and still maintains a good use for all 3 weapons systems if required. That is pretty cookie cutter though, I'm sure the ship engineers could come up with something much better.

My idea was to align the Tempest towards more of the fast attack role as I think in its current form it is more suited towards that role than any other minmatar BS. Hence I reduced the HP increases and gave it a much greater speed tank and agility. I thought a tracking bonus would best compliment this concept, and I felt using just the two standard bonuses may cause it to be a little weak compared to the buffs other tier 2 BS's are getting.

But certainly I will remove the tracking bonus if that is the consensus, I'll wait for a few more too agree before making any changes though. If removed then do you not think it would need anything extra to compensate and bring it into line with other tier 2 BS's?



Good idea, although the Typhoon was always defined into the armor tanking role, making it able to fit either tank would be a nice addition.

The reason I slowed the Typhoon down in these changes is because I gave it quite a big increase in it's HP, as the consensus seemed to be that the Tempest should be the fast attack BS and the Typhoon should be the big heavy hitting brick. Personally I think increasing its speed without a HP nerf would make it too OP, but I will change if that is the general consensus.

But again, I think it seems everyone agrees the Typhoon should become the odd duck in the line up being the only ship able to fit dual weapon systems effectively. I think if CCP is insistant on not allowing this, then it should become a heavy hitting missile brick ship with a large drone bay for utitliy, and leave the fast attack role to the Tempest.

Ill wait for a few more replies though and begin to make changes.

Yes, I was thinking along the lines of a falloff bonus also. Will update with these two bonuses then after receiving a few more responses.

That would be possible, although it seems as though CCP Rise is going to return the Tempest to an attack battleship now like the Typhoon, so it looks as though we now have two attack battleships to work with.

Currently I've put 5 turrets and 5 launchers on the iteration above, although will change after we see the new updated proposals from CCP Rise if they need further improvement. Also Drone bay on the Typhoon has been expanded as I think everyone seems to agree a much large drone bay is necessary.

Also the only issue would be that modifying the bonuses as you mention would require 3 bonuses, I couldn't include projectile tracking and explosion velocity on the same line.

BTW, can we all agree that if they return to a 5/5 split that the 7/5/7 slot layout is awesome?

No problem, I'm just trying to do my bit for the minmatar BS community as I don't want to see them sucked soulless by the tiericide treatment.

It looks as though we have already averted the major issue which was the Tempest changes, so thanks very much to CCP Rise for that. We are now looking at two possible Attack BSs with the Tempest and the Typhoon. When I created those two proposals above I designed the Typhoon with the heavier combat role in mind, although now it seems with two attack BSs allowed, there is a little more room to play with.


Yes, definitely agreed here. Now you have the option of two utility slots, or to fit them instead with a secondary weapon system. The extra mid slot allows a shield tank, with lots of damage mods in the lows, or a really nice armour tank with some utility in the mid slots.

I'm going to hold out for the new proposals for CCP Rise before making anymore changes as it seems the paradigm has shifted if we are allowed two fast attack BS's. But any more ideas will be updated to the initial post after this.

I've always seen the Typhoon as a speedy battering-ram, covered in armour-plates.

I find it odd that they haven't copied their ideas for the Fleet Scythe on this ship: Freedom to fit all it's highs with missiles and/or projectiles.

The drones Nerf is a bad, bad thing.

The real whine is in the missile. Don't like split weapons? Now you get pure missile boat. The tongue in cheek Winmatard whine on "OP Caldari missiles" is now back with a vengeance.