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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente First post
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fukier

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,205

#861 - 2013-04-09 20:36:17 UTC

Marlona Sky wrote:

Prometheus Exenthal wrote:

Pattern Clarc wrote:

*Sigh*

Prom thinking about balance purely in the 1 vs 1 arena again.

38km neuts will be a big deal and will make the geddon a very popular ship, when combined with new beam apocs or abaddons - you could probably leave your loki/rapier/huggin at home. The bonuses have just too much synergy and relevance in this current game and pretending that it's no big deal, and that you should just bumble through and that you suck if you can't make it work is annoying as hell.

I'm not saying it won't be popular, I'm saying it won't be as amazing as many people are implying.
In the grand scheme I'd be VERY surpised if Battleship fighters really care about some heavy neuts with 12km more range.

Smaller ship classes already avoid the 25km heavy neut danger zone like the plague, and the same can be said for dealing with any Recons. The latter being ships that are far more threatening in a roaming fleet than a fleet BS will ever be.

The day I start seeing people regularly roaming around in gangs with BS in them again, is the day I will applaud CCP.
As far as FLEET situations go, 38km means nothing to a battleship.

It really boils down to risk aversion. Why bring a BS when you can bring something far more agile and better speed to turn avoid an actual fight with an almost identical damage profile?

yeah seriously when did the nano nerf get reversed and it made sense to roam in bs's...

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.

fukier

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,205

#862 - 2013-04-09 20:38:04 UTC

X Gallentius wrote:

fukier wrote:

from a 0.0 ratting perspective the domi is better...

In what sense? I've never had an issue hitting rats with drones.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

better optimal range and tracking means higher chance to hit...

specially on those pesky npc hacs...

garde II will be much better now on the domi...

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.

Prometheus Exenthal

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 822

#863 - 2013-04-09 20:38:51 UTC | Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal

Pattern Clarc wrote:

*Battleship fighters* won't - but i'm sure t1/t2 logistics, HIC's and tacklers will. :/

The mere fact that a BS has neut bonuses (and unbonused highs on the domi to boot) will generally guarantee MORE neuts, fist ******* active tanking further. From my point of view, that's the grand scheme of things.

For HICs, they're kinda used to being neuted to ****. Someone doing so from slightly further out isn't really a deal breaker.
They're used to tackle capital ships ffs.

For light tacklers (namely interceptors) it does pose a bit of an issue on paper, but we do still have the EAF class that needs reworking. In the meantime there are Recons and those god forsaken link bonuses.

For T2 logistics, they shouldn't care. They stay out at a greater distance.

Saying the geddon is detrimental to active tanking like saying the Tempest is guilty of the same thing.
The cap being removed is the same. The levels of tank and damage are similar. The only difference is 12km and tunnel vision people seem to be stuck with.

And the roaming BS comment was saying that geddons WOULDNT be a threat to roaming gangs and such because very very few people fly around in Battleships. If they were, then CCP would have done some magic, hence my applause.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

X Gallentius

Black Eagle1

Likes received: 2,982

#864 - 2013-04-09 20:41:04 UTC

fukier wrote:

X Gallentius wrote:

fukier wrote:

from a 0.0 ratting perspective the domi is better...

In what sense? I've never had an issue hitting rats with drones.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage
better optimal range and tracking means higher chance to hit...
specially on those pesky npc hacs...
garde II will be much better now on the domi...

Again, never had a problem. In any case, we're at "sniper domi" and shooting npc hacs. Anything else?

Everything else goes in favor of the Geddon.

Ranger 1

Ranger Corp

Vae. Victis.

Likes received: 6,345

#865 - 2013-04-09 20:41:18 UTC

Quote:

One last thing to mention: Personally, I really think sentry drones should move some, even if its only to return to bay. We need to talk some more about this internally and look at ways it can actually be implemented, but a change to this effect could have a very positive impact on the Dominix and I don't think its a very unrealistic goal.

That would be very helpful.

Either move only when told to return to bay...

Or...

Always attempt to return to orbit when not actively firing... but when firing are always stationary...

Or my favorite...

Always stay in a loose formation around your ship (if they can keep up with you) even while firing.... with no ability to move independantly towards the enemy. The always attempt to stay right beside you, which makes picking them up during or after an engagement a lot easier.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

fukier

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,205

#866 - 2013-04-09 20:49:13 UTC

X Gallentius wrote:

fukier wrote:

X Gallentius wrote:

fukier wrote:

from a 0.0 ratting perspective the domi is better...

In what sense? I've never had an issue hitting rats with drones.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage
better optimal range and tracking means higher chance to hit...
specially on those pesky npc hacs...
garde II will be much better now on the domi...

Again, never had a problem. In any case, we're at "sniper domi" and shooting npc hacs. Anything else?

Everything else goes in favor of the Geddon.

yes from a ratting pov its better as it will apply more dps...

hitting elite frigs and cruisers in a current domi is a pain and you usually have to recall and launch light drones to shoot stuff wich slows you down... not with the new domi as its tracking is extreamly good... which means less lightly hits and more wreaking blows...

try this out once it hits sisi... pretty sure you will get more isk per tick on a ratting domi then on the geddon...

i already said that 40km and less the geddon is better for close range pvp... i mean i cant wait for the nueting sentry geddon!

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.

Pattern Clarc

Citeregis

Likes received: 604

#867 - 2013-04-09 20:49:26 UTC | Edited by: Pattern Clarc

Prometheus Exenthal wrote:

Saying the geddon is detrimental to active tanking like saying the Tempest is guilty of the same thing.
The cap being removed is the same. The levels of tank and damage are similar. The only difference is 12km and tunnel vision people seem to be stuck with.

And the roaming BS comment was saying that geddons WOULDNT be a threat to roaming gangs and such because very very few people fly around in Battleships. If they were, then CCP would have done some magic, hence my applause.

The whole point of this rebalance as I see it is to give battleships a bit of a refresh and obviously that will make them more popular.

The Tempest is guilty, so were old school Canes and in this instance, introducing a cheap, bonused neuting hull will certainly increase energy neutraliser proliferation - making you'll face neuts more often or have more neuts to contend with per engagement.

I mean, this trend shouldn't be up for dispute.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

David Kir

Hotbirds

Likes received: 489

#868 - 2013-04-09 20:49:28 UTC

Doctor Ape MD wrote:

Marlona Sky wrote:

David Kir wrote:

I think you people are overestimating the geddon.

The true OP ship, in m opinion, is the apoc.

Great tracking, incredibly good dps projection (scorch be blessed), good speed and agility.

Gonna have a blast flying it :D

Scorch really needs a nerf bad.

Scorch is one of the few things keeping lasers competitive with projectiles.

600 constant dps at 60 km, without range mods.
Neither the Megathron or the Tempest can compete with that kind of damage projection.
We yet have to see how will Raven and Typhoon work out, once BS missiles get rebalanced, but i can see the apoc being quite an opponent.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.

luredivino

Infinite Point

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 61

#869 - 2013-04-09 20:50:07 UTC

I threw some 800mm autocannons on the dominix to see what the change would do to the ship. The 2nd bonus allows you to use the navy dominix fit on the regular dominix since you don't need the extra mid for the tracking link. You lose about 100 dps and significant range, but you can fit a stronger tank and don't lose cap from guns.

[Dominix, dominix]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Garde II x5

1100 dps
1200 dps kin/therm tank
cap lasts 3.5 minutes

Would still like extra control range.

Casual Slackers 5
Moretic Casual Slackers Likes received: 5	#870 - 2013-04-09 20:51:35 UTC I love the change to the domi and I hate it... yes it losses the hybrid bonus and gains some drone love. thats all ok... but I'd like to see more powergrid and drone control range bonus + drone bay increase. maybe this 3000 km per BS skill lvl +25 drone bay ( maybe even 50? ) 500 powergrid

fukier

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,205

#871 - 2013-04-09 20:52:02 UTC | Edited by: fukier

Ranger 1 wrote:

Quote:

you know what i found out if you are warping away but told your drones to return to the bay and you enter warp... you dont loose controll of the drones and they apear in distant space...

why cant you just have drones automatically move to distant space instead loosing controll when you warp off?

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.

X Gallentius

Black Eagle1

Likes received: 2,982

#872 - 2013-04-09 20:55:25 UTC

fukier wrote:

i already said that 40km and less the geddon is better for close range pvp... i mean i cant wait for the nueting sentry geddon!

No worries, I'm just whining at this point. It seems the Amarr don't like their new Geddon anyways. So my suggestion to CCP is to give the Dominix the powergrid and neuting bonus of the proposed Geddon. We'll be happy. They'll be happy. Everything will be great.


fukier Gallente Federation Likes received: 1,205	#873 - 2013-04-09 20:57:21 UTC luredivino wrote: wtf fittings. i dont get it... your space rich but no tech II rigs? `At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.`

Jonas Sukarala

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 309

#874 - 2013-04-09 21:06:47 UTC

one solution to the drone control range is to change sentry control range to make more sense why would you need 100km plus control range when its sitting next to the ship?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change? ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Rysis Vyvorant

Shadow Legion X

Seriously Suspicious

Likes received: 12

#875 - 2013-04-09 21:07:02 UTC

luredivino wrote:

So you get a bonus to tracking and range for drones but you can not use the range. This is exactly why it is ****!

Shpenat

Ironman Inc.

Transgress

Likes received: 74

#876 - 2013-04-09 21:07:27 UTC

Unless there is some serious change in armor tanking the proposed hyperion is really in deep trouble. As active armor tanking is viable only in small gangs you need full tackle and mwd on active armor tanking ships. You run your mwd to get close asap and tackle. Then you really want to be be cap stable (or injected cap stable) with mwd off, tackle, guns and tank on.

Lets have a look at ships which can do this, using double rep fit.

Myrmidon: No problem fitting 2 medium cap boosters with full tackle. Can run without cap using guns. Behaving fine.
Brutix: With dual rep fit it will have ion in high. With full tackle it has only single cap booster. It is not cap stable with guns+tackle+reps. But it has utility high which when fited with nos makes it cap stable (Granted nos is bit meh).
Hyperion: With dual LAR fit needs to downgrade to half electrons. When mwd is off, full tackle, guns and reps running it is NOT CAP STABLE EVEN WITH 2 META 4 LARGE CAP BOOSTERS. In other words, single cap booster is impossible. Also since you are in small gang you really want full tackle. Wth current setup its doable. With proposed, no way.

I can think of 2 solution:

Swap the role for megathron and hyperion. The hyperion will be 8/5/6 with nice speed, 5% damage and 7,5% tracking. The Megathron will get 7/5/7 (6 turrets, 1 launcher) 10% damage bonus, 7,5% rep bonus, 125/125 drone bay. Base speed should be lower than of hyperion. I guess many people will be pissed about this change.
Give the active rep bonus to dominix. It would be like Myrmidon with 6/5/7 slot layout, 375/125 drone bay, Same bonuses as myrmidon. Mega an hype will then be focused on blasters with different second bonus.

erittainvarma

Fistful of Finns

Likes received: 47

#877 - 2013-04-09 21:22:06 UTC | Edited by: erittainvarma

The only thing I don't like 8/5/6 Megathron, is that now shield tanking nano megathron isn't surprising anymore :(

Shield mega has been absolutely funniest ship I have ever flown, especially with well hidden booster loki. Oh the people reactions when they first come poking with "faster ships" and when they try to run megathron just keep following until they die. Killing frigates with neut + kite has been hilarious also.

What ever the final Megathron stats will be, I hope it keeps it quite good base speed and agility, tracking bonus and one utility high slot.

Ranger 1

Ranger Corp

Vae. Victis.

Likes received: 6,345

#878 - 2013-04-09 21:25:47 UTC

Rysis Vyvorant wrote:

luredivino wrote:

So you get a bonus to tracking and range for drones but you can not use the range. This is exactly why it is ****!

I've probably missed it, but what will the range of the Garde II be with the proposed Domi?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Moretic

Casual Slackers

Likes received: 5

#879 - 2013-04-09 21:27:27 UTC

Jonas Sukarala wrote:

one solution to the drone control range is to change sentry control range to make more sense why would you need 100km plus control range when its sitting next to the ship?

Correct if I am wrong but the control range part of sentrys is actuall targeting..

As in if you have drone control range of 65km and ship targeting is 100km and rat is 80km then the sentry wont be able to fire on the rat until such time it comes within 65km...

Ranamar

Nobody in Local

Deepwater Hooligans

Likes received: 89

#880 - 2013-04-09 21:29:03 UTC

Jonas Sukarala wrote:

one solution to the drone control range is to change sentry control range to make more sense why would you need 100km plus control range when its sitting next to the ship?

Because you need to have control range out to the target in order to assign your drones to attack it. Yes, it's dumb, but that's how it works.

Alternatively, you might be able to assign your sentry drones to assist a frigate that's closer to the target and just sit around being a drone bunny. I'm not sure how sentry drones handle that if they're shooting outside your control range.

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