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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente First post
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Rysis Vyvorant

Shadow Legion X

Seriously Suspicious

Likes received: 12

#821 - 2013-04-09 17:53:15 UTC | Edited by: Rysis Vyvorant

X Gallentius wrote:

Rysis Vyvorant wrote:

I am really struggling to see how. Drones never had an issue hitting in the first place.

Higher dps sentries will be able to hit at engagement ranges associated with BS fights in null sec.

Great but you are still losing dps and you are losing versatility. On top of that you can not even really take advantage of a sniper fit - or at least one that would not be out done by any turret boat or even the Geddon.

If they add drone control range then we can start talking but Gallente have really lost their niche.

Marlona Sky

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 5,978

#822 - 2013-04-09 17:55:10 UTC

I like the idea of a mega that can go armor or shield. If the utility slot was moved to the mid instead of taking from the low 7(7)/5/7 layout be better? I think it would do its job better for the role.

The hype might do better with the new layout of 8(8)/4/6 if the armor repair bonus was increased to 10% like the Incursus once had. Larger reps would mean the need for the dual cap injection would be less manditory.

The Domi would be better as a utility ship if the drone and damage bonus was increased to +15%, remove a turret or two and increase the drone bay by 125m3 and give it a +1 to drones launched instead of the proposed optimal range and tracking bonus.

Just my thoughts.

Marxzo Andoun

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 20

#823 - 2013-04-09 17:57:17 UTC | Edited by: Marxzo Andoun

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Kyo Avanta wrote:

Askulf Joringer wrote:

If dropping a gun bonus for another drone bonus is considered "Exciting" by ccp, I can only imagine how boring their "boring" is...

Player: "Uh but what about using blasters as a close range brawler??"

CCP: "Nope!"

When did it lose this option?

Ok I've seen this too much. Yes, you can ignore any ship's bonus and get it to perform inadequately in other roles you try to shoehorn it into. Can we move on now?

Omnathious Deninard

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 3,623

#824 - 2013-04-09 18:01:08 UTC

Marxzo Andoun wrote:

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Kyo Avanta wrote:

Askulf Joringer wrote:

If dropping a gun bonus for another drone bonus is considered "Exciting" by ccp, I can only imagine how boring their "boring" is...

Player: "Uh but what about using blasters as a close range brawler??"

CCP: "Nope!"

When did it lose this option?

Ok I've seen this too much. Yes, you can ignore any ship's bonus and get it to perform inadequately in other roles you try to shoehorn it into. Can we move on now?

The ships bonus was not +1 turret hard point per level, the total affected damage loss is around 150dps with blasters.
quit whining that this ship is useless and pull your head out of where the sun doesn't shine, the functionality of the ships has not gone down at all, the only change is that sentry and heavy drones will be able to hit better with out the need to plug in 2 omnidirectional tracking links.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Josef Djugashvilis

Likes received: 3,578

#825 - 2013-04-09 18:02:36 UTC | Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis

This is by some considerable distance, the best thread I have seen for quite some time in Eve.

Opinions are rationally expressed and well argued.

Very little of the, 'you're stupid' nonsense.

I have managed to learn quite a bit about the various Gallente Battleships which I never knew before.

The whole thread is a credit to all the players involved.

Edited for spelling mistake Oops

This is not a signature.

Askulf Joringer

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 57

#826 - 2013-04-09 18:07:39 UTC

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

You're bad, and you should feel bad. An explanation is beyond you so you don't get one.

Marxzo Andoun

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 20

#827 - 2013-04-09 18:11:09 UTC | Edited by: Marxzo Andoun

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Marxzo Andoun wrote:

Ok I've seen this too much. Yes, you can ignore any ship's bonus and get it to perform inadequately in other roles you try to shoehorn it into. Can we move on now?

There is no reason to brawl with this Domi, no reason to choose it over the other half dozen BS that have better survivability and damage (with bonus to match!).... I'm not even going to be so repetitive in mentioning that certain Amarr ship in comparison.

And loss of this function/role is only one of several.

Kyo Avanta

Legendary Asset Management

Likes received: 11

#828 - 2013-04-09 18:14:56 UTC

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

A 25% loss to blaster dps isn't irrelevant. And like Marxzo Andoun said you can always force a ship to be fit whatever way you like, but losing the explicit ship bonuses has a major affect on the overall performance and versatility of a ship. Also, you seemed to clearly ignore my second point that the Neut Domi is no longer a relevant option since the Armageddon is by far and away superior in this regard. The superiority of the Geddon is based on the fact that it now has such a strong set of nueting bonuses, but then again, like you said - apparently ship bonuses don't matter. Maybe I should start fitting my Megathron with Light missiles... because you know.. why the hell not?

smoking gun81

Doomheim

Likes received: 23

#829 - 2013-04-09 18:15:05 UTC

Roime wrote:

Why do people keep mentioning battleship sniping like it was actually something you can do in this game

No idea like I have no idea why people keep sharing their fittings.
Fittings are unique ( or at least they should be ) and i'm dam tired of hearing that " just fit two EANM's and a damage control " jesus Christ no clue what so ever.

While you are at it CCP just reduce the calibration points on all ships 225 over the standard 400 ( 350 for shiny pirate ships ) then we can all rest easy knowing that the only rigs that matter are HP buff or resist rigs.

Askulf Joringer wrote:

Getting a little defense there eh? Try running a Dual rep Hyperion with a single cap booster bro, it's not stable. You want a dual rep setup to work with a single injector then the cap consumption of Large reppers is going to have to be reduced.

OMG their has to be a consequence for your actions so obviously no you are not going to be stable ( however 2 x LAR's = 800 GJ over 15 seconds standard over the 10 seconds your injector cycles so if you are not shooting you can be stable injecting cap 800's ) you want to shoot MWD point and so on then something has to suffer.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

There is already sentry drones doctrines.

I love the way people are throwing that word around these days totally removes yourself from the tricky task of coming up with a fitting of your own might aswell just take fitting advice from the thread and have done with it everyone flying quad 1600 plate domi's no reason for diversity in a game like eve right ?????

Montevius Williams wrote:

Gallente ships are generally the worst ships in game. So what do we do with the best Drone boat in class? Nerf it and make the Amarr drone boat better.

Ammar victor... CCP have made it quite clear to me from the first load of changes published that they are aiming for every race to use every thing in the game. I thought I would never see the day where an ammar ship had launchers like the proposed geddon.
Can I has a tach mega please thank you.

Absolute absurdity.....

all in all i'm very depressed with these changes leave the bandwidth of the mega and the low slot layout alone take the utility high away if you are going to change anything like that but versatility dictates leave it there for them people that make more use of it than just a neut.

Who would think a BS fleet would want to call in capital ships without the need for yet another ship to swell the ranks and before you all start how well do frigs and recons hold up against being a primary target ???

You screw over the diversity of eve and the power my vengeance will be furious.

Cambarus

The Baros Syndicate

Likes received: 358

#830 - 2013-04-09 18:22:45 UTC

Berial Inglebard wrote:

You seem to be correct here. However, I'm still failing to see that, if an abaddon is, at max level post odessy, resisting 20% more damage AFTER all other resist are calculated, how does that make it "far worse" than a hyperion that would receive a 37.5% boost to received remote reps? Yes, I get that the hyperion would have lower EHP, making it more vulnerable to alpha. That's the point of the change I proposed.

Incoming/local reps on a 20% resist bonused hull are 25% more effective. The argument is that the extra incoming/local reps on a 37% bonused hull wouldn't be enough of a difference to offset the advantage that the resist bonused ships get in the form of bigger buffers.

That said, to compare it to what we have now, the 5%/level resist bonus makes reps 33% more effective, so the difference between them and active tank bonuses are nearly non-existent.

X Gallentius

Black Eagle1

Likes received: 2,982

#831 - 2013-04-09 18:27:43 UTC | Edited by: X Gallentius

smoking gun81 wrote:

You screw over the diversity of eve and the power my vengeance will be furious.

Leave it alone. The vengeance is already OP, and is the best active tanking frig in the game. (poor gallente... can't even do their own active tanking thing right) Big smile

.

And yes, the point that Amarr are the preferred armor tanking race ( active, passive, and remote) in Eve is being made here.


Marlona Sky State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 5,978	#832 - 2013-04-09 18:27:52 UTC 3 Also increase the drone bandwidth on the Hype to 125m3 and give it and the Mega more drone bay room.

av ra

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 26

#833 - 2013-04-09 18:36:46 UTC

Marlona Sky wrote:

100% agree with these ideas. +1. Additionally, leave the Navy versions of the Domi and Mega completely unchanged save for the base stats that need to change.

Soridar Ravencroft

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 38

#834 - 2013-04-09 18:55:26 UTC

These changes for Gal ships are nearly laughable. Gal ships are beat out in most every way by the 3 other races when it comes to BSs. Amarr hold the nuet and tank areas, Caldari has the EWAR BS, Minmatar has the speed and firepower, but Gal has close range brawlers that get owned by the rest.

Personally, I DO NOT CARE (and I would say most others agree) that there are plans for drone fixes and such. It does not exist until it is in game, and designing a ship with "future plans" as a focus is very poor planing. We all know that "future plans" end up taking forever, never turn out like they are intended and often don't match up with things designed before the final iteration is completed. So please for the love of all that is good don't do this.

The Domi is at best a "utility" BS, and this should be expanded rather than changed. The Logi Domi has always been stated as part joke and part truth. I don't see why this can't actually expanded on. This would give Gal a niche BS, and one which makes perfect since. It is after all a "mini carrier" and has the versatility of such.

CCP says that it listens to its players, are driven by what the players are looking for. The changes being proposed are nowhere near what the players want, they do not match up with the other races, and in the end only serve to even further separate Galente BSs from the other 3 races.

Jonas Sukarala

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 309

#835 - 2013-04-09 19:07:19 UTC

CCP Rise any plans on reducing sentry drone training time? more so T2 sentry drones which takes many months of training when you consider you have to train other things as a young pilot as you progress through the ships i think the vexor is the earliest ship you can use a decent amount of sentries on which is rather useful for shooting POS's with the whole ammo issue and all.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change? ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

tasman devil

Puritans

Likes received: 86

#836 - 2013-04-09 19:08:52 UTC

CCP Rise wrote:

I must say, you guys do have a theatrical flair.

Look its 10pm and I'm trying to keep caught up on this, but I promise tomorrow we will go back through this Gal lineup and see if we can resolve some of the frustration.

I know I tried to lay out our intentions in the OP, but I want to lay it out again, just to make sure we're on the same page. I understand that many of you here aren't satisfied so we'll go back over it tomorrow and look at our options. In the mean time maybe this will help.

In the Megathron and the Hyperion, we had two ships that more or less shared some space. They were both armor focused blaster brawlers. The mega was armor focused because of its slot layout - but it had increased utility from one extra high slot and a larger drone bay, and also had an easier time applying damage because of the tracking bonus. Then we had the Hyperion which was bonused to look more like a heavy brawler - focused completely on damage and tank, because of having no utility high, less drones, and a tank focused bonus instead of tracking.

In my personal experience, I felt both ships came up short because they didn't play to their strengths enough. The mega seemed like it wanted to be more like a tempest, less concerned with tank, more focused on utility. A heavy tackler, a hit and run ship (MJD), a ship that could move fast and gank if supported. People tended to run light armor tanks (2 plates 2eanms 1dcu 2 mag stab) as the basic setup, but sometimes tried active setups which usually used more lows for tank. The hyp on the other hand always had almost all lows dedicated to tanking because of only having 6, and so its damage struggled to compete (unless it was some kind of shield fit).

The plan here was to fill in both ships' strength. The hyp would provide more power in pure tank and dps by having an extra low for mag stab or TE or resists, and it would sacrifice some utility. The mega would have more utility, again, playing to its strength - and the increased damage from turrets would make up for the lost low somewhat.

I can see many of you don't agree, and thats fine. I want you guys to love these ships so we're going to spend some time going over feedback and see what looks like a good direction to go.

I think if at all possible, we'd like to keep the armor rep bonus on the Hyperion. Its just too late in the ship line to toss out Gallente's signature tank bonus, despite the fact that many of you might want us to.

We are willing to consider many of the suggestions so far. Rolling another bonus into the rep bonus (like rep cap use) could be possible, changing the slot allocation, and adjusting fittings to give it more room are all on the table.

Thanks for the feedback, it won't be ignored.

Nice to see your comment, but please ... with sugar on top: go over the Amarr line too!!

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...

Maximus Andendare

Stimulus

Rote Kapelle

Likes received: 930

#837 - 2013-04-09 19:18:35 UTC

tasman devil wrote:

Nice to see your comment, but please ... with sugar on top: go over the Amarr line too!!

I'm not sure what you expect him to "go over" on--the Amarr are the clear winners of this balance pass by a wide margin.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

tasman devil

Puritans

Likes received: 86

#838 - 2013-04-09 19:23:24 UTC

Maximus Andendare wrote:

tasman devil wrote:

Nice to see your comment, but please ... with sugar on top: go over the Amarr line too!!

I'm not sure what you expect him to "go over" on--the Amarr are the clear winners of this balance pass by a wide margin.

yeah, because they have been turned into Gallente...

Just take a look at the Armageddon, it is now a Dominix / Bhaalghorn hybrid that resembles the Typhoon.

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...


smoking gun81 Doomheim Likes received: 23	#839 - 2013-04-09 19:29:35 UTC tasman devil wrote: CCP Rise wrote: The mega would have more utility, again, playing to its strength - and the increased damage from turrets would make up for the lost low somewhat. So neut, nos and cyno don't fall into the realms of utility ????? I know that's only three mods but the rest of you can guess what the others are...


X Gallentius Black Eagle1 Likes received: 2,982	#840 - 2013-04-09 19:29:41 UTC 1 tasman devil wrote: yeah, because they have been turned into Gallente... on steroids.

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