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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#761 - 2013-04-09 15:32:53 UTC
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
And ill ask again. What fleet format could form gallent's BS (useful format)? Could you answer? :)
Its not a balance that gallent's BS is for small\solo scale pvp only.

There is already sentry drones doctrines.

For blasters and railguns, it's a bit more complicated, and that may not fit in the current meta, but is it a reason to turn gallente ships into amarr, caldari or minmatar ones ? Besides, the 8/4/7 Hyperion would have been fine following an amarr doctrine.

But as I said, gallente relly on high utility, which mean mid slots with EWAR.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#762 - 2013-04-09 15:34:08 UTC
Lina Theist wrote:
Remove two turrets from the dominix and give it 20% damage bonus to drones. It's still pretty much the same dominix as it stands now.

Posting this again because drones:

Remove 10% damage/HP per level
Add +1 drone/+25mbit per level.

Make the domi a real drone boat.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#763 - 2013-04-09 15:35:45 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Lina Theist wrote:
Remove two turrets from the dominix and give it 20% damage bonus to drones. It's still pretty much the same dominix as it stands now.

Posting this again because drones:

Remove 10% damage/HP per level
Add +1 drone/+25mbit per level.

Make the domi a real drone boat.



Dominix used to give more than 5 drones at spaec in the past. But that was changed because it strained the server too much. I dobut they will make any ship ever again be able to deploy more drones ( carriers not withstanding)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#764 - 2013-04-09 15:35:51 UTC
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
After sleeping on it:
1. Hey how about giving the Mega it's 8th turret slot so that it can be the fleet ship we all want?[
2. CCP is just screwed with the active repping Hyperion. So, do what you want with it. Give the 8th turret slot to the Mega, and keep this ship in its tiny little niche of "I active rep until I get nueted out or blobbed" so that legion boosting, drug addicts can have fun while playing station games.

Its not a solution. Nobody care about how many dps u have if u cant deal it. How u will be able to damage somthing what that range?
Rails are for fleets. Mega has tracking bonus.


Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#765 - 2013-04-09 15:39:31 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Lina Theist wrote:
Remove two turrets from the dominix and give it 20% damage bonus to drones. It's still pretty much the same dominix as it stands now.

Posting this again because drones:

Remove 10% damage/HP per level
Add +1 drone/+25mbit per level.

Make the domi a real drone boat.



Dominix used to give more than 5 drones at spaec in the past. But that was changed because it strained the server too much. I dobut they will make any ship ever again be able to deploy more drones ( carriers not withstanding)

I was under the impression that drones are treated as a single entity when focused on a single target now, so this really shouldn't be an issue, especially since you can turn drone models off.
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#766 - 2013-04-09 15:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Lina Theist wrote:
Remove two turrets from the dominix and give it 20% damage bonus to drones. It's still pretty much the same dominix as it stands now.

Posting this again because drones:

Remove 10% damage/HP per level
Add +1 drone/+25mbit per level.

Make the domi a real drone boat.



Dominix used to give more than 5 drones at spaec in the past. But that was changed because it strained the server too much. I dobut they will make any ship ever again be able to deploy more drones ( carriers not withstanding)


That was almost 10 years ago. Technology has more than compensated in the mean time. Maybe time to revisit? Also I think retaining the hp bonus/level would be needed.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#767 - 2013-04-09 15:40:35 UTC
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
Its not a solution. Nobody care about how many dps u have if u cant deal it. How u will be able to damage somthing what that range?
Please, look at minmatar, caldari or amarr line up if you want godlike damage projection.

And ill ask again. What fleet format could form gallent's BS (useful format)? Could you answer? :)
Its not a balance that gallent's BS is for small\solo scale pvp only.

New Dominix reaches (optimal km/falloff km):
Warden: 112.5/30
Bouncer: 90/42
Curator: 78/24
Garde: 45/12
And that is without any modules fitted whatsoever.

Now, they have pulled the Mega again, but I bet that when it comes again it will be with the same core concept of being able to shield or armour making even blaster range ridiculous (TE nerf not that hard). With a couple of TE's and a rig or two it should easily be able to cover the medium range.
Otherwise there is the once mighty rail Mega, the one that existed before tier3 BS were introed and transformed all fleets into Abaddon blobs Big smile
Combine with the MJD and the insta-hit probes (YMMV) and range becomes much less of an issue than the ability to operate at full power close in while still covering that 100km sphere .. all races are getting that ability as a lot of copy/paste seems to have snuck into the dev process Big smile
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#768 - 2013-04-09 15:41:02 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Lina Theist wrote:
Remove two turrets from the dominix and give it 20% damage bonus to drones. It's still pretty much the same dominix as it stands now.

Posting this again because drones:

Remove 10% damage/HP per level
Add +1 drone/+25mbit per level.

Make the domi a real drone boat.



Dominix used to give more than 5 drones at spaec in the past. But that was changed because it strained the server too much. I dobut they will make any ship ever again be able to deploy more drones ( carriers not withstanding)

I was under the impression that drones are treated as a single entity when focused on a single target now, so this really shouldn't be an issue, especially since you can turn drone models off.



its a SERVER side issue, not client. And when they changed that the sever performance changed a LOT.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
mama guru
Yazatas.
#769 - 2013-04-09 15:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: mama guru
Dominix changes are fantastic. Please give me 0.9 tracking gardes at 70k. Drones might actually be viable in a fleet after this.

Hyperion and Mega?

+1 Low for the hype because it's **** . -1 mid and +7.5% tracking.

+1 mid for the mega -1 high. +7.5% rep bonus.

There. I fixed gallente. you can thank me later.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Havegun Willtravel
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
#770 - 2013-04-09 15:43:10 UTC
Morning Rise,

Thanks for keeping up with the feedback. Hopefully your revisions will be innovative.

"As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta."

A couple of things I would really like to get across.

'' When they work '' - they don't really. That's why the hype is mostly unused and will continue to be. Also why the proph is X times more popular than the Myrm.

"That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." This I really want an explanation to please.

Dragoon -> Proph -> Geddon. When looking for ways to innovate new game play styles and freshen up the mix with variety there doesn't seem to be an issue with Amar. However, if you play Galente you're effectively being told that an old legacy bonus that's never really worked well, still doesn't work very well. but maybe will get better is being hung around your neck Do or Die.

Ten years ago someone decided that Amar were armor tankers and gave them the two best bonus's you could ever ask for. Resists and Armor Hitpoints. Galente were also supposed to be armor tankers but someone seemed to think that DPS tanking with Blasters would make up for squishy tank. It hasn't in the least.

Add to this the fact that Galente across the board have lower pg and cap with the worst optimal and fall off and it's not hard to figure out why they've failed to have an impact or gain the popular following that other races have.

This is our chance to finally even things out but you're failing dismally to break the mold or forge a new direction. Instead we're being told that we're stuck with bad old legacy mechanics while other people move forward in new directions. This just isn't acceptable.

Armor Hitpoints would differentiate us as a tank philosophy. It would probably still make us second place to resists But, we could fit fewer plates and at least be fast enough to apply our myopic dps in more situations.

I don't want to be handcuffed to an old failed legacy anymore. I want innovation. I want to see solutions in action not promises that stuff that doesn't work might not be so bad later maybe.

Tiericide was supposed to open the door to new things. Lets see them please.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#771 - 2013-04-09 15:43:34 UTC
At least in this thread SOME people liked the changes. On minmatar thread basically no one liked them and the first adjustments are here. Go figure.

But good luck to the megatron and dominix and hyperion lovers, hope you guys can get decent ships... even if not all races can.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Slumberg
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#772 - 2013-04-09 15:46:03 UTC
Please leave the megathron alone, and bonus the hyperion in a way that makes them a viable fleet doctrine. Anything but the local rep bonus.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#773 - 2013-04-09 15:47:21 UTC
Havegun Willtravel wrote:
Morning Rise,

Thanks for keeping up with the feedback. Hopefully your revisions will be innovative.

"As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta."

A couple of things I would really like to get across.

'' When they work '' - they don't really. That's why the hype is mostly unused and will continue to be. Also why the proph is X times more popular than the Myrm.

"That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." This I really want an explanation to please.

Dragoon -> Proph -> Geddon. When looking for ways to innovate new game play styles and freshen up the mix with variety there doesn't seem to be an issue with Amar. However, if you play Galente you're effectively being told that an old legacy bonus that's never really worked well, still doesn't work very well. but maybe will get better is being hung around your neck Do or Die.

Ten years ago someone decided that Amar were armor tankers and gave them the two best bonus's you could ever ask for. Resists and Armor Hitpoints. Galente were also supposed to be armor tankers but someone seemed to think that DPS tanking with Blasters would make up for squishy tank. It hasn't in the least.

Add to this the fact that Galente across the board have lower pg and cap with the worst optimal and fall off and it's not hard to figure out why they've failed to have an impact or gain the popular following that other races have.

This is our chance to finally even things out but you're failing dismally to break the mold or forge a new direction. Instead we're being told that we're stuck with bad old legacy mechanics while other people move forward in new directions. This just isn't acceptable.

Armor Hitpoints would differentiate us as a tank philosophy. It would probably still make us second place to resists But, we could fit fewer plates and at least be fast enough to apply our myopic dps in more situations.

I don't want to be handcuffed to an old failed legacy anymore. I want innovation. I want to see solutions in action not promises that stuff that doesn't work might not be so bad later maybe.

Tiericide was supposed to open the door to new things. Lets see them please.

Pretty much

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#774 - 2013-04-09 15:55:39 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
New Dominix reaches (optimal km/falloff km):
Warden: 112.5/30
Bouncer: 90/42
Curator: 78/24
Garde: 45/12
And that is without any modules fitted whatsoever.

Listen, I know they only let you fly Amarr ships in PIE so you may not be aware of this, but even if a sentry drone has the optimal to reach that far, it can't fire outside your drone control radius. Since the Dominix gets no bonus to drone control range, the effective range of any sentry drone is hard-capped in the ~60km area unless you fit a control range module.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#775 - 2013-04-09 16:03:53 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Lina Theist wrote:
Remove two turrets from the dominix and give it 20% damage bonus to drones. It's still pretty much the same dominix as it stands now.

Posting this again because drones:

Remove 10% damage/HP per level
Add +1 drone/+25mbit per level.

Make the domi a real drone boat.



Dominix used to give more than 5 drones at spaec in the past. But that was changed because it strained the server too much. I dobut they will make any ship ever again be able to deploy more drones ( carriers not withstanding)
Wasn't this changed in the Red Moon Rising expansion of 2005? Are you meaning to say that in 8 years (of technology time), there haven't been any improvements that would allow a single ship to be able to field 10 drones? How does the server cope with slowcats, then? Having the Domi (vs all the ships fielding 10) surely isn't going to impact the server so significantly with the same problems experienced EIGHT years ago. Is CCP still running Pentium processors?

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Rukhsana Uxor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#776 - 2013-04-09 16:03:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Rails are for fleets. Mega has tracking bonus.

And there is always amarr with beams that more effective.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#777 - 2013-04-09 16:09:12 UTC
Havegun Willtravel wrote:
Morning Rise,

Thanks for keeping up with the feedback. Hopefully your revisions will be innovative.

"As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta."

A couple of things I would really like to get across.

'' When they work '' - they don't really. That's why the hype is mostly unused and will continue to be. Also why the proph is X times more popular than the Myrm.

"That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." This I really want an explanation to please.

Dragoon -> Proph -> Geddon. When looking for ways to innovate new game play styles and freshen up the mix with variety there doesn't seem to be an issue with Amar. However, if you play Galente you're effectively being told that an old legacy bonus that's never really worked well, still doesn't work very well. but maybe will get better is being hung around your neck Do or Die.

Ten years ago someone decided that Amar were armor tankers and gave them the two best bonus's you could ever ask for. Resists and Armor Hitpoints. Galente were also supposed to be armor tankers but someone seemed to think that DPS tanking with Blasters would make up for squishy tank. It hasn't in the least.

Add to this the fact that Galente across the board have lower pg and cap with the worst optimal and fall off and it's not hard to figure out why they've failed to have an impact or gain the popular following that other races have.

This is our chance to finally even things out but you're failing dismally to break the mold or forge a new direction. Instead we're being told that we're stuck with bad old legacy mechanics while other people move forward in new directions. This just isn't acceptable.

Armor Hitpoints would differentiate us as a tank philosophy. It would probably still make us second place to resists But, we could fit fewer plates and at least be fast enough to apply our myopic dps in more situations.

I don't want to be handcuffed to an old failed legacy anymore. I want innovation. I want to see solutions in action not promises that stuff that doesn't work might not be so bad later maybe.

Tiericide was supposed to open the door to new things. Lets see them please.
So well said that I am at a loss for words. Well done, sir.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Orion Wolff
Fukushima Industries
#778 - 2013-04-09 16:20:09 UTC
Havegun Willtravel wrote:
Morning Rise,

Thanks for keeping up with the feedback. Hopefully your revisions will be innovative.

"As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta."

A couple of things I would really like to get across.

'' When they work '' - they don't really. That's why the hype is mostly unused and will continue to be. Also why the proph is X times more popular than the Myrm.

"That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." This I really want an explanation to please.

Dragoon -> Proph -> Geddon. When looking for ways to innovate new game play styles and freshen up the mix with variety there doesn't seem to be an issue with Amar. However, if you play Galente you're effectively being told that an old legacy bonus that's never really worked well, still doesn't work very well. but maybe will get better is being hung around your neck Do or Die.

Ten years ago someone decided that Amar were armor tankers and gave them the two best bonus's you could ever ask for. Resists and Armor Hitpoints. Galente were also supposed to be armor tankers but someone seemed to think that DPS tanking with Blasters would make up for squishy tank. It hasn't in the least.

Add to this the fact that Galente across the board have lower pg and cap with the worst optimal and fall off and it's not hard to figure out why they've failed to have an impact or gain the popular following that other races have.

This is our chance to finally even things out but you're failing dismally to break the mold or forge a new direction. Instead we're being told that we're stuck with bad old legacy mechanics while other people move forward in new directions. This just isn't acceptable.

Armor Hitpoints would differentiate us as a tank philosophy. It would probably still make us second place to resists But, we could fit fewer plates and at least be fast enough to apply our myopic dps in more situations.

I don't want to be handcuffed to an old failed legacy anymore. I want innovation. I want to see solutions in action not promises that stuff that doesn't work might not be so bad later maybe.

Tiericide was supposed to open the door to new things. Lets see them please.


This is so well said. Pretty much nailed the failed Gallente doctrine.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#779 - 2013-04-09 16:23:08 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Rails are for fleets. Mega has tracking bonus.
And there is always amarr with beams that more effective.

Rate of Fire bonus and in return remove a couple drones. Big smile In the end, the Gallente BS hull should be applying more dps at any given range because the Gallente tanks (EHP, sig radius, you name it) suck donkey balls. That would give them their defining feature that people could use in fleets.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#780 - 2013-04-09 16:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Can someone point to the Gal ship that's useful in fleets?

With these changes there's even less chance of megas been welcomed alongside abaddons. A mega without 2 maga stabs is useless. To do that now you have to use 1 plate, which seems to give it an even worse tank then it currently has.


5% rof bonus + 1 mag stab = 5% dmg bonus + 2 mag stab

Now u have 1 more mid slot for or web or the track comp, which means that 5% rof + 1 mag stab dps better applied than the old fit. And on top of that u get the same tank, better cap, speed and agility. Stop whining.

Incorrect, and if you'd paid a bit more attention to the thread, rather than insulting everyone (including people who have 7 years more experience than you... ) then you'd know this is incorrect:

7*1.25*1.47 = 12.9 turrets (current, with two mag stabs)
7/0.75*1.23 = 11.5 turrets (proposed, with RoF bonus and one mag stab)

On top of this it loses a heavy drone, with Ogre II's thats another -63 DPS.


The solution, is simple; increase ROF bonus to 7.5% assuming it's still losing a heavy drone. You could of course keep it the same by removing a low slot and giving it a 10% damage bonus without changing the drone bandwidth:

7*1.5*1.23 = 12.9

Looking forward to what these new discussions (that Rise eluded to earlier) lead to.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293