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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#681 - 2013-04-09 13:21:05 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Here, finally!
At least someone competent finally acknowledged sentries ~could~ be overpowered.
If you dudes spent more time doing PVP instead of super-blobbing, you'd already had a solid working doctrine.


We've already done a Navy Domi Sentry fleet and this was before these changes. So uh. What are you talking about?
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#682 - 2013-04-09 13:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
I think what people are most upset with about the Domi is that it's completely lost it's versatility.

- Close range brawler? - quite diminished in this capacity

- Neut domi? - utterly inferior

- Sniping sentry Domi? - Domi could do this before. Why would we care that we have extra mid-slots free from needing OTL II now when we don't need the mid-slots for extra tank as a sniper, and we also don't need tackle slots as a sniper?

- Dropping sentries and chugging in to be an inferior brawler? The Domi is slower than ever as well which makes this an awkward proposition. Is our fleet supposed to wait for us to mosey over and scoop up our sentries every new battle? Are we expected to abandon them? We can kiss them goodbye every scatter as well. Not to mention even with mobile sentry retraction the Domi would now be inferior in this role.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#683 - 2013-04-09 13:24:37 UTC
Roime wrote:
Giving sentry drones 5000m scoop range would make them much usable without breaking the whole concept of stationary drones...

Would go in a completely different direction, give them a slow'ish travel speed and have them 'pack up' (ie. no longer shooting) and move towards controller when recalled .. maybe even deploy in same manner so that one can send them to set up anywhere within control range (think platforms in Homeworld 2).

People are begging for a drone UI/Control overhaul, so might as well go all the way Big smile
Roime wrote:
But why aren't sentry Domis OP now? You can get the same range and tracking currently.

Because you don't .. that bonus is replacing the large gun bonus. It will become a very viable sentry sniper, especially since we recently got a low slot and rig option to boost drone damage .. going to be nasty as hell.
Will be godly in brawls as well, since range+tracking allows you to use heavies to swat even frigs .. can almost do so now with an assortment of drone mods .. again, nasty as hell.

But it is destructible dps, so wouldn't slap the OP moniker on it just yet.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#684 - 2013-04-09 13:25:02 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Nah drone boats in large scale pvp sux! Other ships are much more better only because of 1 reason, u cannot move if u get sentries out.

Do you have reading comprehension problems?
Once again: you CAN move, if you chose to.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#685 - 2013-04-09 13:25:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi again Gallente friends!

We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.

Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.

Thanks again for the input!


I really, really liked your first iteration of the Mega and Hype so I hope you're not mistaking "affectionate hysteria" with "possible gamebreaking"? Will be looking forward to see what you've come up with...
And about the other threads you really should look at the scorpion and the Rokh and take a serious look at the attack battlecruisers again ;-)
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#686 - 2013-04-09 13:26:05 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Can someone point to the Gal ship that's useful in fleets?

With these changes there's even less chance of megas been welcomed alongside abaddons. A mega without 2 maga stabs is useless. To do that now you have to use 1 plate, which seems to give it an even worse tank then it currently has.

Was a useable fleet Gal BS really out of the question?

Also making the Mega more like a pest was funny, cause the pest is only ever used on mass as throw away cap ganking ships cause in fleets there useless.

Giving the BS's new roles is nice, but not even giving the Gal BS a fleet member is sad. Small gang ganks sure. But ganks are in no way fun for more then 20 seconds. I want a Gal BS that will live more then 20 seconds into a fleet fight.

Please remove the useless extra high slot on the mega and return it to the low slot. Mega doesn't need a neut on it. It needs 7 lows.


The Dominix is suppose to be used in FLEETS. The proposed Mega will be used in smaller scale warfare. I may be wrong but the new Mega will be going 1300 - 1400m/sec properly fitted and will have the EHP of 3 - 4 Talos. Depending on the setup even more effective EHP with an ASB.

I am sure many know of the close range NAga setups with blasters with around 40k EHP and having the same effective damage mitigation of a Guardian with 4 large tech 2 reps. I'm fairly sure a fleet od 30 Megathrons with that damage projection and 80kEHP and massive damage but mobility intact will not be ignored. They will be able to engage close range and Sh!t damage or kite at range and skirmish.

EXAMPLE
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
EM Ward Field II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


- killz



The Dominix is arguably the best solo tech 1 battleship for PVP at present. It is not a fleet-only boat.

I came VERY close to defeating a four-person gang solo in a Domi recently - an Astarte, an Oneiros, a Proteus and an Enyo. The Astarte engaged me as bait, and I had it in deep structure with me at 80% armor before the Oneiros reps landed. Even then I quickly had the logi neuted out and had the Astarte at low armor before popping.

Had the Oneiros landed 5 seconds later, I'd have popped the Astarte, caught the Proteus, forced the Enyo and Oneiros from the field and then popped the Proteus in a 140m Domi fit. As it was I only failed to escape because the Oneiros had an unusual (and smart for their gang) fit with a long point.

So yeah, the Domi is not just a fleet boat.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#687 - 2013-04-09 13:30:56 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

Here, finally!
At least someone competent finally acknowledged sentries ~could~ be overpowered.
If you dudes spent more time doing PVP instead of super-blobbing, you'd already had a solid working doctrine.


We've already done a Navy Domi Sentry fleet and this was before these changes. So uh. What are you talking about?

I know you did. Was it success? If yes - why dont we see that doctrine anymore? If not - why dont you improve that?
Gary Goat
XDC-UK
#688 - 2013-04-09 13:31:03 UTC
Interesting changes, I cant say I like them all.

Megathron: The good

I like the direction you're going with the megathron. Its faster and has more utility whilst retaining the blaster damage thanks to the rof bonus compensating for the loss of a low. The loss of a heavy drone hurts and seems a bit unnecessary. Also a bit more cap or cap regen would be nice to negate the increased cap use from the new bonus.

Hyperion: The bad

The hyperion has always been a meh ship in my eyes. It was previously gimped by the limited low slots and its always been extremely cap hungry to the point that you need 2 cap injectors due to 8 turrets + at least 2 large reps to get the most from its bonuses. With the new changes you gain some tank at the expense of a mid slot that would have been used for extra tackle (to counter the bad tracking) or extra cap injector (to counter the stupendous cap usage). Different slot layout, same problems. The rep bonus just has too many negatives to make it feasible on a battleship that needs to feed 8 high slots.

Dominix: The Ugly

The domi has always been a versatile boat and maybe the most versatile ship in the entire game. You never really knew how it was going to be fit until you engaged it which was its saving grace really, it also had great adaptability in the ever changing meta of eve online. The geddon has now taken away its role as a neuting drone boat (one of its best roles for small gangs) and the loss of the hybrid bonus has killed it in PVE and large fleets (although it was never very good in fleets anyway). The new domi looks like a bigger myrmidon without the tanking bonus which makes the myrmidon good. Maybe it should be the ship with that rep bonus instead of the hyp?
YuuKnow
The Scope
#689 - 2013-04-09 13:31:13 UTC
Was their any plan to give each race an EWAR Bship like the scorpion? The EWAR of the Caldari Bships (Scop) is pretty much instan pawned in fleet fights as its paper-thin and always primary-ed. Perhaps it would be better for each race to have a partial EWAR bship (but not be completely bonused toward only EWAR).

For example. give the mega or hyperion a mild sensor damp or warp scrambler bonus.

yk
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#690 - 2013-04-09 13:32:14 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Nah drone boats in large scale pvp sux! Other ships are much more better only because of 1 reason, u cannot move if u get sentries out.

Do you have reading comprehension problems?
Once again: you CAN move, if you chose to.


No u cant move! If u chose to move than u are a moron. Because u dont do dps or u are left without the drones if u move. Meanwhile the enemy fleet is pounding on you, even more if u stay still, and i ve seen better ehp boats than the domi too.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#691 - 2013-04-09 13:35:00 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The Dominix is arguably the best solo tech 1 battleship for PVP at present. It is not a fleet-only boat.

I came VERY close to defeating a four-person gang solo in a Domi recently - an Astarte, an Oneiros, a Proteus and an Enyo. The Astarte engaged me as bait, and I had it in deep structure with me at 80% armor before the Oneiros reps landed. Even then I quickly had the logi neuted out and had the Astarte at low armor before popping.

Had the Oneiros landed 5 seconds later, I'd have popped the Astarte, caught the Proteus, forced the Enyo and Oneiros from the field and then popped the Proteus in a 140m Domi fit. As it was I only failed to escape because the Oneiros had an unusual (and smart for their gang) fit with a long point.

So yeah, the Domi is not just a fleet boat.
You'll still be able to do this : you get more hp, more capacitor, and your drones will apply their dps better. Your gun dps loss is not that terrible.

As for the comparison with the Armageddon, indeed this one is better at pure neutralizing, but the mid slot is still of a very good value to the Dominix.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#692 - 2013-04-09 13:35:07 UTC
I see you removed the suggested Megathron changes. May I ask politely that you do not remove a low slot for an additional mid slot? I mean, I'm fine with gaining a mid slot on the Mega, but I'd rather lose the utility high instead and don't lose a low slot.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#693 - 2013-04-09 13:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
YuuKnow wrote:
Was their any plan to give each race an EWAR Bship like the scorpion? The EWAR of the Caldari Bships (Scop) is pretty much instan pawned in fleet fights as its paper-thin and always primary-ed. Perhaps it would be better for each race to have a partial EWAR bship (but not be completely bonused toward only EWAR).

For example. give the mega or hyperion a mild sensor damp or warp scrambler bonus.

yk

Eventually they said they might make new BS to add e-war BSes

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#694 - 2013-04-09 13:39:22 UTC
Hyperion:

Personally I would have reduced the number of turrets to 6 and given it a 10% damage bonus + and extra heavy drone. Then moved a high to a low leaving a 7 - 5 - 7 layout. This would probably have fixed a large number of problems the Hyperion faces but that's just me.

Megathron:

I would have given this ship an extra turret and reduced drones to 50 M/Bit (5 Mediums). Then left the slot layout as is and reduced the mass of the ship and slightly lowered EHP (even though most people have said a big problem with BS's is that they aren't tough enough compared to CBC's). Attack ships should be ganky and agile. Also 8 turrets work well in fleet ops.

Dominix:

Not sure I like your changes. The new Armageddon essentially relegates the neut Domi to oblivion. I think the biggest problem with drone ships as fleet ships currently is how difficult it is to fit drone upgrades to your ship and how poor they can sometimes be. Also, the fact sentries can't return to drone bay and must be scooped is a big problem too. However you are addressing these issues by considering to allow sentry drones to return under their own propulsion.
I think you may need to reconsider the Armageddon's neut range bonus in the other thread. It is extremely powerful and makes the Baalgorn look silly. I would prefer, if it is your intention, to give the geddon a tracking disruptor bonus whilst keeping it's new drone bonus and push it into the Disruption battleship (DBS) role but that is for the other thread.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#695 - 2013-04-09 13:39:42 UTC
Change dominix drone damage bonus to 15% per level. All problems solved I think. And it keeps as THE DROEN Boat, cotnrary to the armageddon.. that stays with the pseudo drone boat role.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Geraltd
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#696 - 2013-04-09 13:40:32 UTC
MukkBarovian wrote:
You guys are complaining about a 50% optimal range and tracking bonus! WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?

BECAUSE CONTROL RANGE != Optimal != Lock <= 60KM
OMG!!!
And when you will fit all the crap in all sloles for this little bastards you will look like this guy
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#697 - 2013-04-09 13:41:46 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:

Because you don't .. that bonus is replacing the large gun bonus. It will become a very viable sentry sniper, especially since we recently got a low slot and rig option to boost drone damage .. going to be nasty as hell.
Will be godly in brawls as well, since range+tracking allows you to use heavies to swat even frigs .. can almost do so now with an assortment of drone mods .. again, nasty as hell.

But it is destructible dps, so wouldn't slap the OP moniker on it just yet.


So Domi is no longer a great brawler (still Ok, but we will be laughed at for doing so with current bonus), Neut domi is dead and to boot lost the Gallente claim as the premiere drone boat race.

The Domi has gained: Freeing up mid-slots from OTLs we used to use for this role because....
we needed the midslots for tackle as a sniper... no wait.
we needed the midslots for more shield tank as a sniper... hmm, that's not right.

Okok! We are super happy because we have traded all this so we can pay hundreds of millions on a BS to track and swat people who payed tens of millions to buy frigates! ......
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#698 - 2013-04-09 13:41:49 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
I see you removed the suggested Megathron changes. May I ask politely that you do not remove a low slot for an additional mid slot? I mean, I'm fine with gaining a mid slot on the Mega, but I'd rather lose the utility high instead and don't lose a low slot.



Could lose a turret for your trouble. Might as well have 6 BLASTERS v0v since CCP referenced the TEMPEST.


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#699 - 2013-04-09 13:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
Gary Goat wrote:
Interesting changes, I cant say I like them all.

Megathron: The good

I like the direction you're going with the megathron. Its faster and has more utility whilst retaining the blaster damage thanks to the rof bonus compensating for the loss of a low. The loss of a heavy drone hurts and seems a bit unnecessary. Also a bit more cap or cap regen would be nice to negate the increased cap use from the new bonus.

Hyperion: The bad

The hyperion has always been a meh ship in my eyes. It was previously gimped by the limited low slots and its always been extremely cap hungry to the point that you need 2 cap injectors due to 8 turrets + at least 2 large reps to get the most from its bonuses. With the new changes you gain some tank at the expense of a mid slot that would have been used for extra tackle (to counter the bad tracking) or extra cap injector (to counter the stupendous cap usage). Different slot layout, same problems. The rep bonus just has too many negatives to make it feasible on a battleship that needs to feed 8 high slots.

Dominix: The Ugly

The domi has always been a versatile boat and maybe the most versatile ship in the entire game. You never really knew how it was going to be fit until you engaged it which was its saving grace really, it also had great adaptability in the ever changing meta of eve online. The geddon has now taken away its role as a neuting drone boat (one of its best roles for small gangs) and the loss of the hybrid bonus has killed it in PVE and large fleets (although it was never very good in fleets anyway). The new domi looks like a bigger myrmidon without the tanking bonus which makes the myrmidon good. Maybe it should be the ship with that rep bonus instead of the hyp?


a) indeed although it needs much more of a agility and speed increase for a shield fit to be worth using and for an armour fit to have half decent speed.

b) a solution could be to move a high to a mid and remove a turret to give it a utility slot then if its dps is too low just increase its damage bonus to 10% or 7.5%

c) if its a sniper then it doesn't need or should get a rep bonus i think it should lose some turrets and a high for an extra low so it can armour tank properly or an extra mid so it can use omnis and have shield tank.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Kyo Avanta
Legendary Asset Management
#700 - 2013-04-09 13:44:35 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Change dominix drone damage bonus to 15% per level. All problems solved I think. And it keeps as THE DROEN Boat, cotnrary to the armageddon.. that stays with the pseudo drone boat role.


True, although CCP have gone with the idea what race's no longer need to have identities. Hence why the best hybrid platform battleship is Caldari and the best drone battleship is Amarr.

Gallente ships are still #1 in looks though! Big smile Of course you'll never actually see them flying around now... unless you've got a couple in your hanger.