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[DISCUSSION] CCP and the interuption of assorted Scripts to aid in Voting for the CSM
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Albino TestSubject
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-04-08 14:42:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Albino TestSubject
Prior to this weekend a collection of scripts had been introduced by a member of the Goons as well as by Trebor that allowed block voting to be done. If you trusted and/or blindly choose to follow either one of those scripts it allowed a simple one click approach to voting that ensured block voting on a massive scale.

For some reason a member of CCP's staff decided to first introduce some sort of work around that disabled the scripts from working - forcing you back to a blank voting form. There was no information put out that these things would be interrupted, they were simply made unusable and changes made to the voting site that corrected and point of fact did make the process easier but not as easy as it could have been. Most things done on an alliance level are automated these days because it's the only way to manage organizations with thousands of members. So why not voting? They still have to click the button to submit their votes.

Discussion - Why was it deemed necessary to implement these changes and does this not show that once again CCP is refusing to communicate unilateral changes to their playerbase.
NewPrimaryIs
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-04-08 14:47:28 UTC
It seems that CCP is continuing to quietly manipulate CSM politics from behind the curtain. Of course they want the non-block (and least vocal) candidates to be elected because it will make their lives easier over the coming year. It is becoming obvious that those who manage the election have their own agenda.
Albino TestSubject
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-04-08 14:54:02 UTC
NewPrimaryIs wrote:
It seems that CCP is continuing to quietly manipulate CSM politics from behind the curtain. Of course they want the non-block (and least vocal) candidates to be elected because it will make their lives easier over the coming year. It is becoming obvious that those who manage the election have their own agenda.



That is my fear as well. I understand the desire on CCP's part that not want an entrenched politico environment as part of the CSM, as they would be in a better position to expose the gaming community to the happenings within the company. But this just smacks of blatant election tampering to me.
U'th Basano
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-04-08 15:01:34 UTC
Political assassination, anyone? I guess 4 years of outspoken criticism from Trebor was enough for CCP to deal with.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#5 - 2013-04-08 15:25:49 UTC

Easy is not always good...

A huge part of the political process is motivating potential voters to vote... The script has three negatives:

1.) It's not available to everyone. The script makes voting very simple, taking the decision efforts completely out of the picture. This really disenfranchises the non-block candidates because they not only have the block-support system, they have to compete with the EvE-Made-Easy mode.

2.) The script not only makes things easy, but guarantees how people vote (when they use it). Lets say your block gets 2000 voters... if they have to manually enter votes, a huge portion of them will alter the order of the list, will omit names of people they dislike, not bother filling out the entire list, and will make plenty of personal changes that ultimately improve the democratic process while undermining much of the power-block's potency.

3.) If the three largest coalitions in the game came to a consensus on who should be on the list, and had all their members one-click vote for all candidates, they essentially game the system and insert only their "desired candidates". And lets be frank, coalition politics are way too much bathroom stall, you scratch my back, i'll blow you... politicking! I don't think that's the most kosher/healthiest way to populate the CSM.
Albino TestSubject
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-04-08 15:37:18 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Easy is not always good...

A huge part of the political process is motivating potential voters to vote... The script has three negatives:

1.) It's not available to everyone. The script makes voting very simple, taking the decision efforts completely out of the picture. This really disenfranchises the non-block candidates because they not only have the block-support system, they have to compete with the EvE-Made-Easy mode.


Incorrect actually. The ability to "Create your own block" was made publicly available. You simply typed in the name of the candidates, and hit submit. The link could then be shared with anyone.


Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

2.) The script not only makes things easy, but guarantees how people vote (when they use it). Lets say your block gets 2000 voters... if they have to manually enter votes, a huge portion of them will alter the order of the list, will omit names of people they dislike, not bother filling out the entire list, and will make plenty of personal changes that ultimately improve the democratic process while undermining much of the power-block's potency.


You make the exact point of why this was a good thing for power-blocks. The script also did not block any possibility of changing your votes.


Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

3.) If the three largest coalitions in the game came to a consensus on who should be on the list, and had all their members one-click vote for all candidates, they essentially game the system and insert only their "desired candidates". And lets be frank, coalition politics are way too much bathroom stall, you scratch my back, i'll blow you... politicking! I don't think that's the most kosher/healthiest way to populate the CSM.


The CSM is there to directly represent a huge portion of players. If the largest collection of players in mass decide on XYZ candidate then that is in fact the best choice for them. Talking about blow jobs and sucking each others dicks don't really have a place in the discussion but its nice to know where your mind's at.
NewPrimaryIs
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-04-08 15:55:21 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
2.) The script not only makes things easy, but guarantees how people vote (when they use it).


How is this any different then the CSM Vote Match site (which is designed explicitly for people who haven't been paying attention)? At least the script has full transparency. For all we know the people behind the Vote Match site could be manipulating the data to steer people into voting for the candidates that they prefer.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#8 - 2013-04-08 17:50:18 UTC
Albino TestSubject wrote:

Easy is not always good...

A huge part of the political process is motivating potential voters to vote... The script has three negatives:

1.) It's not available to everyone. The script makes voting very simple, taking the decision efforts completely out of the picture. This really disenfranchises the non-block candidates because they not only have the block-support system, they have to compete with the EvE-Made-Easy mode.

  • Incorrect actually. The ability to "Create your own block" was made publicly available. You simply typed in the name of the candidates, and hit submit. The link could then be shared with anyone.


    • My ignorance shows.... This should be publicized by CCP so people know its out there then... (if they allow it). Pages like this:
    Alek's Endorsement of the CSM Candidates could then have the link at the bottom too....

    Albino TestSubject wrote:

    2.) The script not only makes things easy, but guarantees how people vote (when they use it). Lets say your block gets 2000 voters... if they have to manually enter votes, a huge portion of them will alter the order of the list, will omit names of people they dislike, not bother filling out the entire list, and will make plenty of personal changes that ultimately improve the democratic process while undermining much of the power-block's potency.

  • You make the exact point of why this was a good thing for power-blocks. The script also did not block any possibility of changing your votes.


    • Good for power blocks does not mean good for the game... Balance is what is truly needed, both in terms of politicking, as well as in terms of game mechanics.

    Albino TestSubject wrote:

    3.) If the three largest coalitions in the game came to a consensus on who should be on the list, and had all their members one-click vote for all candidates, they essentially game the system and insert only their "desired candidates". And lets be frank, coalition politics are way too much bathroom stall, you scratch my back, i'll blow you... politicking! I don't think that's the most kosher/healthiest way to populate the CSM.

  • The CSM is there to directly represent a huge portion of players. If the largest collection of players in mass decide on XYZ candidate then that is in fact the best choice for them. Talking about blow jobs and sucking each others dicks don't really have a place in the discussion but its nice to know where your mind's at.


    • If most forums had a "discussion section" listing the pro's & con's of candidates, and put a link on the bottom with their order... I'd be completely down for it. However, I feel with the current voting system, the CSM Votes will become a bargaining chip... eventually turning the CSM voting process into a game of Diplomacy between EvE power blocks... I don't think this is a favorable outcome, as it eliminates many of the grass-roots candidates that often represent a sizeable, yet uncoordinated playbase. The script isn't central to the issue... although I fear it will help exacerbate it.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #9 - 2013-04-08 17:52:44 UTC
    NewPrimaryIs wrote:
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    2.) The script not only makes things easy, but guarantees how people vote (when they use it).


    How is this any different then the CSM Vote Match site (which is designed explicitly for people who haven't been paying attention)? At least the script has full transparency. For all we know the people behind the Vote Match site could be manipulating the data to steer people into voting for the candidates that they prefer.


    If the script auto-appeared on the bottom of the vote-match site... then it would be much more reasonable... and it sounds like it can.

    As for bias in the vote-match site.. I'm sure it exists...
    sabre906
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #10 - 2013-04-08 18:22:42 UTC
    Fun fact: 85% of Eve playerbase is in highsec. That's the 85% that don't vote... unless if it's one click. CCP put out your fire before you burnt yourself. Where's the gratitude?Cool
    paritybit
    Stimulus
    #11 - 2013-04-08 23:00:56 UTC
    If you can't fill out your own ballot, you shouldn't be voting. This is a stupid topic.
    Niclas Miula
    Kriegsmarinewerft
    Goonswarm Federation
    #12 - 2013-04-09 10:05:26 UTC
    Just a short question:

    I am searching for a candidate with the quest to help the smaller and not so important players. So my question is, who goes to CCP and talk about these Cloaking-System in EVE.

    A few player can disturb small Alliances for a long time so they become serious problems. CCP have to create a way to find cloaked AFK-Neuts.

    Is there a candidate who want to fix it?
    Albino TestSubject
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #13 - 2013-04-09 12:56:13 UTC
    Niclas Miula wrote:
    Just a short question:

    I am searching for a candidate with the quest to help the smaller and not so important players. So my question is, who goes to CCP and talk about these Cloaking-System in EVE.

    A few player can disturb small Alliances for a long time so they become serious problems. CCP have to create a way to find cloaked AFK-Neuts.

    Is there a candidate who want to fix it?


    There is. His name is Riverini and I believe that he has the full unwavering direct support of the Mittani, Montolio, Elo Knight, DNS Black, and Vuk Lau (via write in support from his internet cafe). You should totally just put his name there and ignore anyone else.



    Also: Oh no afk cloaker, better drink my own ****.