Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Megathron.. oh how your days are gone.. We shall ligth a candle once a year, to remind us of your grace on the field of battle all those years ago.. When a single megathron would scare entire fleets off..

Remember that thing called tiericide? I'm comparing the mega to tier 3s because that's what the ship should be equivalent to post odyssey. Instead it is being effectively gutted.

Also, please look at the Maelstrom's stats before pointing to the resist bonuses. Even Minmatar, characterized by fast, light ships, has a line dps BS. Gallente does not.

Yes but you're comparing it pre tiericide on things like EHP against ships with BONUSES to EHP. If you want raw HP of course you should use them.

Tiercide doesn't mean making all the ships the same.

Also I'm well aware the Maelstrom doesn't have a resist bonus, what's your point? It has a higher base raw HP because it's a tier 3 and it also is a shield tanker with 5 mids and a dcu for tank.

Yes Gallente doesn't have a line DPS ship but you're electing the Megathron, which isn't comparable in it's current pre tiericide form with all 3 other tier 3s.

If any ship should move towards being the lineship it probably should be the Hyp, at least until active armor tanking isn't pretty worthless.

Again CCP Rise: Please concider making the Mega the go to blasterboat and just take a completely different direction with the hyperion like you did with the armageddon.

The game doesnt need 2 blasterboats, same reason caldari wouldnt need 2 railboats, isnt this why the ferox/naga rebalancing is an issue aswell?

I'm not entirely sure the participants in this thread know exactly what's going on here.

First, you need to recognize that the prices will be normalized somewhat. I'd like to see them all down to Tier1 prices, but that's probably just a pipe dream. That means Hyperions won't be costing 250+mil.

Second, the passive tanking capacity for these ships (as a whole) has been averaged out somewhat. Yes, they are weaker than they currently are (in some cases), but they take on new strengths in addition to the drawbacks.

THE DOMINIX
I don't see what the complaints are about. I've been playing this game since 2006, and I can probably count on one hand, the number of times I've seen a Dominix (other than my own) sporting a full rack of large guns. One or two may be a bit more common, but for the vast majority of players, medium guns and/or neutralizers are used. The proposed changes will not change how most players use this ship. They will improve upon the ships drone-use abilities, at the cost of losing a potential (and awful) high dps setup. It's a good change. Maximum damage fits will lose something like 200dps, whereas non-gank setups using large guns will probably settle around 100dps lost. The huge gain of HP more than makes up for that.


THE HYPERION
To me, this is the only *bad* change. That's not to say the ship is bad with these changes, but more that is loses its character. The Hyp is known for two things; its damage output and its huge active tank. The proposed changes remove one or the other, unless you wish to lose mobility. What being done here is they have given you the option to add the amount of ehp that you potentially could have gained from a second rep. This isn't terrible, but it goes against what the Hyperion has always been known for (active tanking).

The Hyperion is best when using multiple reps. That simply isn't feasible without 2 cap injectors, and dropping tackle (or propulsion) seriously limits the ships own ability to apply damage without assistance. The Rokh & Maelstrom do not have this issue, and the Abaddon is different style of ship entirely.

To me, the best solution for the Hyperion is also the simplest.
- First, give back the 5th mid slot
- Second, remove a high slot
- Third, allow it to field 5 heavy drones
- Reduce the base armor to 7000 (base), shields to 6500, and hull to 7500
- *maybe* increase tank bonus to 10%

This would result in a 7/5/7 + 125/125 situation, which would be ideal. The 7th low allows players to either regain that extra bit of armor now lost, OR field damage/resists/rep to take advantage of the ships bonuses. The difference between flying a Hyperion over a new Mega is that the Mega becomes the guerilla fighter, and the Hyperion remains the front-line brawler. The HP reduction would be to keep the ship in line with the likes of the Rokh/Maelstrom, while still sporting greater eHP by a fair margin (just not in the 120k level).


THE MEGATHRON
The level of complaining here is perplexing. Players have been begging for a way to make BS more viable ships for roaming around, yet when they're given what want they don't recognize it. The new Megathron (and Tempest by association) is a boss.

I understand that MANY of you (if not the majority) use the Mega as a fully plated low-sec gatecamping machine, and you *could* still do that. But why would you? The Hyperion would now be the same price and does the job better (even in the Megas current state). Like the Tempest, the new Megathron is one step closer to becoming a roamers DREAM battleship.

For both the Tempest/Mega that get fit with shields, you now have a mobile battleship capable of countering Tornados/Megathrons, while possessing far greater defenses.

For both the Mega/Tempest that get fit with armor, you now have a durable ship with good hp that can abuse AARs & MJDs. Get in a fight, kill/neut out ships with scramblers, then MJD away when things get hairy (MJD are unaffected by LR points & bubbles). There is quite literally nothing wrong with this thing, and I think the negative light it's getting is mostly caused by a narrow field of vision.

As an example, the new Mega (and Pest) is capable of sporting 110k+ ehp, ~900dps Ions (no void/heat), a large rep, heavy neut, MJD+MWD, injector, and tackle.... On the same fit. That's about 10k eHP less than the equivalent fit currently possible, for more agility, speed, sig, and midslot versatility. Where's the problem?


Domi & Mega are good changes.
The Hype becomes *better*, but loses all of its character (so fix it).

If people REALLY want a fleet ship, take a look at the Dominix.
The sentry range/tracking/damage isn't awful, it wouldn't use cap, & it has enough slots for either shield or armor tank.
Hell, maybe remove a high for another low

As usual prom has gone full ****** again.

Here's the thing about MJDs and 5 mids.

You don't need 5 mids.

I have, sitting in one of my hangars, a Navy Mega running MWD + MJD, with 150k EHP, 600 DPS @ 40k, 450 DPS @ 85k, 300 DPS @ 140k,and a MWD speed of 920 m/s. It does not need 5 mids to accomplish this - it could do it with 3. Its stats come from its lowslots - all 8 of them. Giving the megathron 5 mids with the excuse of letting it dual prop is frankly absurd. It would be better served dual propping with a 7-4-8 layout and the CPU boost it so desperately needs.

Regarding shield tanking it - 5 mids doesn't allow for a sturdy shield tank. It turns the ship into a DPS platform and little else - one of those niche ships best served as surprise DPS in a gang once something big is tackled. This role is narrower than its current role.

What I want to see is Gallente having a viable option for fleets. It would have to be either the Megathron or Hyperion, as drones to not mesh well with fleets. As the Megathron is far, far closer to this niche currently and has a history of fleet usage, it is my preference for the role. The Hyperion is already the "you could turn this into a shield tanked glass cannon if you really wanted to" ship.

I think everything has been said, Gallente Battleships are the loosers here, they dont have a fleet option, they dont have now a solo option, and they dont have an utility / electronic BS option.

If you want to make the mega a nice option leave it with 7 lows, and give it CPU as you are doing, dont put it a 5% RoF which is a nerf to its cap. You can add some nice bonus there to make it shine at least in its niche instead of making it become a joke...

The hyperion: simply a joke, as its bonus,impossible to fly now, nothing else to say,

The dominix: only good for 0.0 POS defense and OPs, cheap carrier, without bonuses to repair range or amount, a spider tank joke.

For those who live in low and use the mega as brawler this changes are a pure joke, who is going to use a shield mega having a talos? and who wants a 5th mid slot instead of a 7th low in a brawling ship...


CCP you are doing it totally wrong and you will see it

Active armor tank.
I can safely assume that most players dislike active armor tank on BS. Yet you still insist on keeping it. Moreover you even change the Hyperion slot layout to better suit the aspect most players despise.
Maybe if active armor tanking was better such treatment would be accepted much easier. Either you should fix armor tanking first and only then build hulls around it or exclude it from hull design and adjust Hyperion and other such ships later.
Gallente should have Good Old BS to form fleets of and Hyperion could be perfectly suited for this role instead of weird active armor tanked BS.

The Mega and Hype don't fill any roles now.
Active armor brawling in a BS is largely crap, so if you're going to insist on keeping it you better buff the hype and not just shuffle things around. Even with 7low/5mid/8high it wouldn't be amazing because that niche is still crap.

Ok so you decided that the Hype is a solo ship with its rep bouns, then obviously the mega needs to be a gang ship. Makes sense since it already kind of filled that role, even though it did it poorly. What do you do? You take away a low, now it's garbage as a gang ship. Guess what, even with 7low/5mid/7high it's not great as a gang ship because hybrids.

I say get rid of the active tank bonus on the hype, make it a decent fleet ship with a dmg bonus and range bonus, then make the mega into a proper brawler (give it one more slot than it has currently).