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Exploration, Risk vs. Reward, T3 ships and DED 4/10s
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Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#261 - 2013-04-09 01:02:47 UTC
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
The risk in doing highsec exploation is that your site can be taken from you by a better pilot. A pilot who can scan the site down faster than you and blitz it better than you.

You don't like that? Tough. Train your skills, get a better ship, and beat them at their own game. Otherwise, HTFU.

TL;DR: Highsec exploration working as intended.


That is not risk... It's simply competition, a whole differant thing.

I don't even wanne explain to you what risk is since you seem to be far out of touch.


Some other players were talking about passive isk being ''risk free''. Yes, mostly it is. HS PI is risk free (unlikely suicide ganks aside) but the amount of isk you make for that on a solo toon?.. absolute balance. They use a lot of alts to even make that worth while, i dare say AFK mining would be bettter all things considered.

Low sec PI is better, but GL trasnporting M3 around with-ought a T2 hull. You are also at the mercy of players attacking the poco.. or ramping up the taxes on you. It also needs multiple charictors to bring in anything remotely like a real profit. That requires a lot of manegment and is not actualy ''passive'' isk in reality. You still need to get mass amounts of goods out of low sec and to a trade hub. It's far more work than HS exploration if you try to make low sec PI truly profitable.


It is a risk. You risk your time and effort, for the possiblity of no reward. You obviously only see risk as the possiblilty of losing your ship or pod.


Shocking news guys, exploration is random income.

Guess what sherlock?.. low sec players ''lose'' all the false sence of (i own this plex) stuff you do.. but they also lose... (wait for it) SHIPS AND PODS.

You can stay in HS, with ammo cost covered, never lose anything. Risk my ass.





It's not the same risk people in lowsec encounter, but it is still a risk. I live in lowsec, have done lowsec/nullsec exploration, and realize that the risks in those regions are higher; but at the same time when you score a module worth 1bil, it pays off.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#262 - 2013-04-11 13:00:36 UTC
Still that site in lowsec takes longer to finish and you might have to split the loot with your friends - whereas in highsec it is all yours.

And yeah i have to chuckle a bit when i hear that missing out on the payout is the 'risk'.

When i started playing, fo me exploration meant (and ideally still does) a sort of roaming playstyle. I was one of those explorers that probed as they went along - usually on a way to an expedition - doing sites as i found them. Nowadays i feel that there are very few people that still actually play this way. Most is just hunting for DED sites. And please don't tell me that using the website to look at your signal strength and which percentage to probe takes any skill. I have a feeling that many 'explorers' nowadays actually have no clue how they are able to single out their precious GSOs, they just blindly follow what the mighty spreadsheet tells them. [Personally i also probably would get immensely bored of this activity after a week or so...]

DMC, i remember you much more friendly on the forums. You seem to think that everyone that voices a different opinion to yours is attacking you.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#263 - 2013-04-11 17:11:39 UTC
Actually a lot of sites in low/null can be done solo if you are smart.
Makavelia
National Industries
#264 - 2013-04-13 17:22:09 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Actually a lot of sites in low/null can be done solo if you are smart.


Theirs nothing smart about it. You know full well your entire success depends on how bored a potential hunter is.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#265 - 2013-04-13 22:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Actually a lot of sites in low/null can be done solo if you are smart.


Theirs nothing smart about it. You know full well your entire success depends on how bored a potential hunter is.




Bullshit. Just depends on how patient a person is. Mr Pie jumps into system, you warp off /cloak up or dock up (if a station is there); if he doesn't leave, you log after any timers are gone (if still in space) and come back in 15-30 minutes. If you log on and he is still there, it is time to find a new spot. You see exploration in low/null takes finesse, some intestinal fortitude, general understanding of how mechanics/d-scan works, and the ability to think like a pirate. If you can't be bothered to learn it, then don't play.

Oh, and by the way, "There's" or "There is"; not "Theirs".
Makavelia
National Industries
#266 - 2013-04-14 21:18:51 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Actually a lot of sites in low/null can be done solo if you are smart.


Theirs nothing smart about it. You know full well your entire success depends on how bored a potential hunter is.




Bullshit. Just depends on how patient a person is. Mr Pie jumps into system, you warp off /cloak up or dock up (if a station is there); if he doesn't leave, you log after any timers are gone (if still in space) and come back in 15-30 minutes. If you log on and he is still there, it is time to find a new spot. You see exploration in low/null takes finesse, some intestinal fortitude, general understanding of how mechanics/d-scan works, and the ability to think like a pirate. If you can't be bothered to learn it, then don't play.

Oh, and by the way, "There's" or "There is"; not "Theirs".


So the secret to being succesful at low sec explorartion is being able to spell and logging on and off. I feel -------- this much better at eve becuase of you.
Elder Tarkin
The Projectiles Gentlemen's Club
#267 - 2013-04-15 09:05:08 UTC
Why not just organise a Tengeddon? That ought to make things more interesting. Naturally it'd have to be tweaked so rewards go towards all killmails that include a T3 or "equivalent" that uses a DSP.

On a more serious note however, and also in the interest of getting back on topic. Nerf hi-sec exploration and buff low-sec exploration. Things should overall be made to make it easier for a new player to get hooked on eve without doing the bullshit "everyone must be allowed access to all the content" that blizzard and other companies seem to be so fond of. However, a new player does not NEED a can worth 750m (somewhat close to the max from a GSO?). But a can worth 100m sure does help a whole lot. Nerfing the hi-sec exploration loot would make it less lucrative for an "old" player to stay in hi-sec and would give him/her a reason to venture away from the hi-sec womb. And with that the player will be forced into what eve really is and also the things that make eve so much fun. Human interaction, griefing, pvp, organised fleets, etc etc etc.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#268 - 2013-04-15 14:50:31 UTC
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Actually a lot of sites in low/null can be done solo if you are smart.


Theirs nothing smart about it. You know full well your entire success depends on how bored a potential hunter is.




Bullshit. Just depends on how patient a person is. Mr Pie jumps into system, you warp off /cloak up or dock up (if a station is there); if he doesn't leave, you log after any timers are gone (if still in space) and come back in 15-30 minutes. If you log on and he is still there, it is time to find a new spot. You see exploration in low/null takes finesse, some intestinal fortitude, general understanding of how mechanics/d-scan works, and the ability to think like a pirate. If you can't be bothered to learn it, then don't play.

Oh, and by the way, "There's" or "There is"; not "Theirs".


So the secret to being succesful at low sec explorartion is being able to spell and logging on and off. I feel -------- this much better at eve becuase of you.


You have other options like moving to another system or finding quieter systems in the first place, low sec exploration is not all bad as some parts of lowsec are really empty and you can get run sites quite easily, never explored in null though. Sure you don't make the best isk/hr but it's fun.
Makavelia
National Industries
#269 - 2013-04-15 20:15:26 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Makavelia wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Actually a lot of sites in low/null can be done solo if you are smart.


Theirs nothing smart about it. You know full well your entire success depends on how bored a potential hunter is.




Bullshit. Just depends on how patient a person is. Mr Pie jumps into system, you warp off /cloak up or dock up (if a station is there); if he doesn't leave, you log after any timers are gone (if still in space) and come back in 15-30 minutes. If you log on and he is still there, it is time to find a new spot. You see exploration in low/null takes finesse, some intestinal fortitude, general understanding of how mechanics/d-scan works, and the ability to think like a pirate. If you can't be bothered to learn it, then don't play.

Oh, and by the way, "There's" or "There is"; not "Theirs".


So the secret to being succesful at low sec explorartion is being able to spell and logging on and off. I feel -------- this much better at eve becuase of you.


''hide in the darkest corners of amar space using a missile boat''


Auto piolit enabled.




Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#270 - 2013-04-16 10:01:50 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:

Mr Pie jumps into system, you warp off /cloak up or dock up (if a station is there); if he doesn't leave, you log after any timers are gone (if still in space) and come back in 15-30 minutes. If you log on and he is still there, it is time to find a new spot.


This is why I haven't bothered with lowsec DEDs in over a year. Too much time spent waiting for optimal conditions. The sites take much longer which doesn't help. Theres the logistics issue of getting past gate camps. The temptation to use a scout alt, for me multiboxing is annoying. Constant spamming of dscan which is no fun. All for a chance at a reward that might be better than a hisec 4/10, but usually not, and takes so much more time. I can do several hisec 4/10 in the same time, this is the real benefit of hisec exploration. All this inconvenience is in ADDITION to the possibility of ship loss. Where I suppose you can go into the whole PvE vs PvP fittings issue, but half the time if you let yourself get scanned down you'll have a small gang jump in on you anyway so it doesn't matter what your fit is.

I don't know if lowsec buffing and/or hisec nerfing will make me a regular lowsec DED runner. I may start running them every now and then but as a regular thing its too much of a pain in the ass.

An automatically updating dscan would be nice. And increase the star-gate spawn-in radius from 15km to 150km. :)
DSpite Culhach
#271 - 2013-04-18 11:27:07 UTC
Forgetting for one second the "risk vs reward" part, I think it should be more "effort vs reward".

If sites in hisec were far more common, but involved - lets say just for a simple example - having to move from one escalation to another, each one increasing in difficulty, randomness, and things to kill, then it might balance itself out. Maybe.

I'd love having gauntlet type escalations getting harder and harder. It's really unfortunate that the average MMO person immediate response to anything is "how can i farm this" rather then "this sound fun to do".

Anyway TL;DR :

I think whats screws up anything that CCP can do to make PvE more interesting, is too many people trying to break it, and all the resulting balancing makes everything too bland to really bother.

---

I'd love to see unrated missions agents handing out really nasty, random as frak missions like a lottery system. Roll the dice, risk your ship. Love to see how CCP would try to balance rewards for those.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Cutsy Wutsy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#272 - 2013-04-19 18:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cutsy Wutsy
Most of EVE pve (aka money making thru shooting stuff) need's a serious rebalance and high sec exploration is prolly high on "please do something with me" list. Eeasiest way would rly be just moving DED -4 to low sec only. There is absolutly no reason for a high sec site that takes 5-10 mins to blitz thru without any kind of risk involved to give a chance for 800m + loot.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#273 - 2013-04-19 18:46:44 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:

Mr Pie jumps into system, you warp off /cloak up or dock up (if a station is there); if he doesn't leave, you log after any timers are gone (if still in space) and come back in 15-30 minutes. If you log on and he is still there, it is time to find a new spot.


This is why I haven't bothered with lowsec DEDs in over a year. Too much time spent waiting for optimal conditions. The sites take much longer which doesn't help. Theres the logistics issue of getting past gate camps. The temptation to use a scout alt, for me multiboxing is annoying. Constant spamming of dscan which is no fun. All for a chance at a reward that might be better than a hisec 4/10, but usually not, and takes so much more time. I can do several hisec 4/10 in the same time, this is the real benefit of hisec exploration. All this inconvenience is in ADDITION to the possibility of ship loss. Where I suppose you can go into the whole PvE vs PvP fittings issue, but half the time if you let yourself get scanned down you'll have a small gang jump in on you anyway so it doesn't matter what your fit is.

I don't know if lowsec buffing and/or hisec nerfing will make me a regular lowsec DED runner. I may start running them every now and then but as a regular thing its too much of a pain in the ass.

An automatically updating dscan would be nice. And increase the star-gate spawn-in radius from 15km to 150km. :)


Call me crazy, but if I'm in lowsec I have the option to run the 4/10, the 5/10, and the 6/10. All of which give good rewards. So if I'm careful and smart I can make a lot more than people in highsec.
blink alt
Doomheim
#274 - 2013-05-08 17:52:29 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:


Deep Space Probe removal
They have been removed from the game. All Deep Space probes will change into core scanner probes.


Hope everyone can be happy now

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=233600