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carebears are scaring off noobs with boredom.

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#381 - 2013-04-08 19:55:10 UTC
Ultimately this all sounds like an idea for a bunch of nonsencical hand-holding and pampering of newbs instead of letting them figure the game out for themselves.

In other words, it promotes the lazy, easy way....the very Theme Park you claim to hate.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
motgus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#382 - 2013-04-08 19:55:48 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
motgus wrote:
All we are trying to point out here is that SOME (NOT all) players do not like your style of game play and are often driven away by it.





The game has not suffered for ill in a decade of it's existence from this. Not one iota.


Your ignorance is quite staggering. Carebears never stop amazing me, I doubt they ever will.
Polaris Sagan
Doomheim
#383 - 2013-04-08 19:56:05 UTC
Lets all agree to disagree...

But lets agree on two things... First: EVE is a PvP game. There's no way around that fact. Plain and simple. Secondly: There's more to EVE than pewing in nullsec and every player likes something different, what one person loves another hates, so on and so forth.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#384 - 2013-04-08 19:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
motgus wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
motgus wrote:
All we are trying to point out here is that SOME (NOT all) players do not like your style of game play and are often driven away by it.





The game has not suffered for ill in a decade of it's existence from this. Not one iota.


Your ignorance is quite staggering. Carebears never stop amazing me, I doubt they ever will.



Glad to have pleased you so well. I guess.

You don't even list an example of my ignorance. Just poasting to poast you are indeed.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
motgus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#385 - 2013-04-08 19:57:45 UTC
Not sure if anyone has checked Krixtal's killboard history, but it tells a sad story.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=638628
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#386 - 2013-04-08 19:58:40 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:

So teaching your customer how make good and optimal use of your product is a terrible idea? Good to know your the go-to guy on business advice.



As EVE is a Sandbox, I don't think even CCP can define 'optimal use'.

Such arrogance........


To make optimal use, to make best or fullest use. Come on man, simple vocabulary. To make best use of a whole pool, you have to know how to swim. How can a newbie go to the deep end of the pool if he doesn't know how to swim?

And just throwing out an ad-hominem attack is not going to gain you any ground here.



What does tossing 3 day old players into Low have to do with learning anything ?


Have you not been reading anything I've said? You introduce them into the environment of lowsec so they can accommodate themselves to hostile environments rather than just keeping the entire tutorial process in highsec. Let them experience fuller section of eve so they know all the options they can choose from. The tutorial needs to show off all aspects of life in new Eden rather than immediately dumping them into mining or missioning at the end of the tutorial. Having at least a tutorial mission in low or maybe even null-sec during perhaps the most forgiving time in the game (WHEN YOU'RE STILL IN A NOOBSHIP) is likely the best way to do this.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#387 - 2013-04-08 19:59:50 UTC
motgus wrote:
Not sure if anyone has checked Krixtal's killboard history, but it tells a sad story.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=638628



He is not my PvP alt.

And one ship loss in 18 months ?? Yeah...pathetically embarrassing.



I quit.Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#388 - 2013-04-08 20:00:45 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

What does tossing 3 day old players into Low have to do with learning anything ?

learning, just like all goonswarm newbies (the best newbies) do, that death is not something to be terrified of in eve
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#389 - 2013-04-08 20:01:38 UTC
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:


Have you not been reading anything I've said? You introduce them into the environment of lowsec so they can accommodate themselves to hostile environments rather than just keeping the entire tutorial process in highsec.



You are missing the point of all that's going to happen is getting blown up over and over and over again as the systems associated with this 'new tutorial' will be perma-camped guaranteed and for sure. The newbs won't 'learn' a thing.

But I have learned the truth of my statement from my own experience..

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#390 - 2013-04-08 20:03:39 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:


Have you not been reading anything I've said? You introduce them into the environment of lowsec so they can accommodate themselves to hostile environments rather than just keeping the entire tutorial process in highsec.



You are missing the point of all that's going to happen is getting blown up over and over and over again as the systems associated with this 'new tutorial' will be perma-camped guaranteed and for sure. The newbs won't 'learn' a thing.

But I have learned the truth of my statement from my own experience..

those newbies will learn that getting a ship blown up is not the end of the world, the exact thing they should learn so that they might never make dozens of gd threads talking about how they are quitting because some of their stuff got blown up

sounds like a good lesson to me
Polaris Sagan
Doomheim
#391 - 2013-04-08 20:04:15 UTC
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:
Have you not been reading anything I've said? You introduce them into the environment of lowsec so they can accommodate themselves to hostile environments rather than just keeping the entire tutorial process in highsec. Let them experience fuller section of eve so they know all the options they can choose from. The tutorial needs to show off all aspects of life in new Eden rather than immediately dumping them into mining or missioning at the end of the tutorial. Having at least a tutorial mission in low or maybe even null-sec during perhaps the most forgiving time in the game (WHEN YOU'RE STILL IN A NOOBSHIP) is likely the best way to do this.


It doesn't take a genius to fly out to low or null on your own... First thing I did after the noob missions was skill for a retriever and head out to Hiremir for the richer pickings of ore found in low.

Eve is a game where people should be able to think for themselves. But not enough do... So what if the tutorials don't take you into low sec.... You can go there any time you want. Flying nothing but a damned pod if you wanted to...
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#392 - 2013-04-08 20:05:05 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:
So teaching your customer how make good and optimal use of your product is a terrible idea? Good to know your the go-to guy on business advice.


I'm pretty sure there is a warning pop up by default when you try to go to low sec. Other than the odd mission that goes through low-sec, there is nothing CCP is doing to get people into low sec.

The only time I have seen newbies go into low sec without dying is when a corp gets everyone into a fleet for a low sec roam. First you need a corp for that and by default CCP doesn't really do a good job about how to find a good corp.

So no. CCP has no vested interest in sending newbies into low sec and warns them if they wander that way.

Even if CCP made a low sec tutorial (which they won't) it will pale in comparision to what real human interaction will teach you over voice coms.

The issue is not that CCP isn't teaching newbies, its that the player base isn't teaching them.

Really... Its the fault of the players.

The solution? People need to activily recruit into newbie friendly PVP corps that spends time to actually show them how to live in low sec and then not awox them for the lulz.


Relying on the players to teach your game to new players means you have utterly failed at game design (something CCP seems to have a track record with). If you've already accepted that that is an okay thing then there is nothing really I can do to sway you. :S What I'm proposing is a tutorial that forces player to player interaction. Ideally the whole tutorial system would incorporate factors of the sandbox and player to player interaction, to give new players a fuller eve experience.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#393 - 2013-04-08 20:05:42 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:

those newbies will learn that getting a ship blown up is not the end of the world



Since when did this stop happening in High Sec ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#394 - 2013-04-08 20:06:35 UTC
Polaris Sagan wrote:


Eve is a game where people should be able to think for themselves. But not enough do... So what if the tutorials don't take you into low sec.... You can go there any time you want. Flying nothing but a damned pod if you wanted to...



Anything else is nothing but dictating like a dictator. No thanks.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Polaris Sagan
Doomheim
#395 - 2013-04-08 20:07:35 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:


Have you not been reading anything I've said? You introduce them into the environment of lowsec so they can accommodate themselves to hostile environments rather than just keeping the entire tutorial process in highsec.



You are missing the point of all that's going to happen is getting blown up over and over and over again as the systems associated with this 'new tutorial' will be perma-camped guaranteed and for sure. The newbs won't 'learn' a thing.

But I have learned the truth of my statement from my own experience..

those newbies will learn that getting a ship blown up is not the end of the world, the exact thing they should learn so that they might never make dozens of gd threads talking about how they are quitting because some of their stuff got blown up

sounds like a good lesson to me


There is also the tutorial missions where you ARE required to lose a ship... There is either two of them. Or three I cant remember.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#396 - 2013-04-08 20:07:48 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

those newbies will learn that getting a ship blown up is not the end of the world



Since when did this stop happening in High Sec ?

considering the wailing and gnashing of teeth every time a worthless highseccer discovers that high security is not perfect security, it never started
Polaris Sagan
Doomheim
#397 - 2013-04-08 20:08:40 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Polaris Sagan wrote:


Eve is a game where people should be able to think for themselves. But not enough do... So what if the tutorials don't take you into low sec.... You can go there any time you want. Flying nothing but a damned pod if you wanted to...



Anything else is nothing but dictating like a dictator. No thanks.


Not sure I fully understood you there haha sorry xD
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#398 - 2013-04-08 20:08:53 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

those newbies will learn that getting a ship blown up is not the end of the world



Since when did this stop happening in High Sec ?

considering the wailing and gnashing of teeth every time a worthless highseccer discovers that high security is not perfect security, it never started



Your answer denies the very scenario. Worst post of the day.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#399 - 2013-04-08 20:09:49 UTC
Polaris Sagan wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Polaris Sagan wrote:


Eve is a game where people should be able to think for themselves. But not enough do... So what if the tutorials don't take you into low sec.... You can go there any time you want. Flying nothing but a damned pod if you wanted to...



Anything else is nothing but dictating like a dictator. No thanks.


Not sure I fully understood you there haha sorry xD



Their 'insistence' on how 'everyone' should play the 'same game'...........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#400 - 2013-04-08 20:09:51 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Your answer denies the very scenario. Worst post of the day.

could you perhaps put a few more words into this so it is parsable in english