EVE General Discussion

Which goes back to my point that if they ignore all other resources (including the evelopedia manual they get directed to in tutorial) and trust the first corp they come across...they are a sheeple with a gullible mindset probably going to ragequit sooner or later anyway, probably after trusting someone who was giving away their stuff for 1 tritanium.

They should. Many don't, and the forums are full of evidence of it.

I am the part of the 'they' referred to in this thread, i.e. a rookie, noob, etc. I have no idea what this thread is actually about. What it pretends to be about is concern for new players and player retention or something. I do not pretend to have any view on most of the assertions flying around in the thread.

What it sounds like is the OP lacks a recruiting strategy.

And heres Tippia yet again thinking that people who concoct ridicules arguments in the 1st place are capable enough of abstract thinking to actually get that example......

Yet after14 months of very public barge ganking most miners still dont fit any tank.

People dont look for info in games these days, they simply follow the leader.

You are seeing a glimpse of a much deeper argument that has raged between those that think EVE should only be about the hostile exchange of ammo in space and those that think there is room for many play styles in EVE.

Let's use highly simplified definitions for this post. PvPer = someone that thinks the game should be all about swapping ammo in a violent way. Carebear = person that wants to avoid this hostile exchange of ammo. These are not 100% accurate descriptions, but it will make this post shorter than "War and Peace".



The PvPers rage at the large number of players that live in high sec, that won't fight when they get war dec'ed, that are angry that CCP has made suicide ganking less profitable, and generally made it easier for those wishing to avoid BOOM, to avoid most BOOM. CCP's own numbers say that in any given month, less than 20% of accounts will lose a ship to boom, and less than 4% of toons will show up on a kill mail as a killer.


The PvPers think, "Oh, this game would be so much better, if it were easier to make those carebear's ships go boom." They come up with all these suggestions to make it easir to BOOM carebear ships. Let's remove local. Let's remove NPC corps. Let's remove some of the bight from CONCORD. Let's rollback the tank buffs given to exhumers. On and on.

The easy counter to all these "ideas" is simply to point out that the players that want to avoid PvP, play this game, because it is possible to avoid PvP. Remove the things that allow them to avoide PvP, and they will simply stop playing.

This is clearly demonstrated by players like me, that would rether lose 1 billion ISK in opportunity cost by not undocking duiring a war, rather than undock in war, earn half a billion ISK mining in barges, then lose 100 million in ISK when barges go BOOM. For me, it is not just about the lost revenue. It is more about avoiding showing up on someone's kill board as a kill.


This, risk averse play style, enfurates those that play the game to pad their kill board stats with lots of easy kills. Not my problem.

Either let me mostly avoid BOOM, or I simply won't play the game. I don't play the game, and hundreds of thousands of other like me do the same, well, CCP is toast as a viable company....

The PvPers are mad that we always win the argument, with a simple "We'll all quit". Or, put another way. You can't make me play, so you can't make me play in a way that makes it easy for you to make my ship go boom.

The OP of this thread is a failed attempt to counter that argument. His assertion is that more players are driven away by carebears teaching new players to play in a boring style (avoid PvP) then would be driven away by getting rid of the carebears.

This game don't have "pvp off" option.

well, that's a horrible generalisation. tank versus yield is entirely situational, just as tank versus DPS is in missions.

- Misunderstanding aggression flagging isn't something that only hi sec carebear corps do. And this also does not constitute grief play.
- Your opinions on lo and null sec are highly subjective. If a corp member speaks of lo/null sec in a negative light because of the experience he's faced there himself that is something that he is entitled to, even if yfou don't like it and regard it as "grief".
- What exactly is it they are being told they can and cannot do? Are these corp policies (ie only mine and mission)? If that is the case, you are welcome to leave. If they are forcing you to stay, then feel free to file a petition. If a carebear joins a pirate corp and is "forced" to PVP miners, will you feel the same level of compassion as a player being "forced" to mine and mission in a different corp? I didn't think so.
Otherwise, I'm curious as to what is it they are being told (i.e., "you can absolutely not enter lo sec as it is game-mechanically impossible").
- You don't get to dictate what decisions players make in a game where a player's decisions are entrusted to the player. You are certainly welcome to form your own ideas and decisions and even share them with other players. But the decision is ultimately the individual's to call. Again, corp members are certainly welcome to persuade you. There's nothing "bannable" about this.

Really? Do you have anything to back this claim up? If a corp member warns another corp member about lo sec being dangerous, as he himself as been blown up many times, which of your two assumptions does this fall under, "elitism" or "because someone told me that's how it is"?

I underscored the key words. You certainly have a right to your opinion. But that is all it is.



Pirate lies to an unsuspecting victim by telling him there is no gatecamp on the other side of the gate.

Carebear lies to a passerby by telling him there is always a gatecamp on the other side of the gate.

I'll agree that the intent may be different. But the outcome is still the same. Either both are "ban-worthy offences" or none.

from OP:

I find that often times when new players look for corporations they get sucked into a high sec corporation run by carebears.