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Why risk versus reward doesn't matter
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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#361 - 2013-04-06 20:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
So to bring everything back up to speed... Lord Zim says Concord Protects, Baltec1 says it's bannable to use
Concord for protection, Ruby says Concord doesn't prevent, but deters, and Murk says that Concord is a cost assessment for risk vs reward.

And Rancor is HS without Concord.

Weird ******* thread.


No, just you don't seem to know squat about concord mechanics and are not listening.



You made sure to remind me by saying it 4 times.

I made sure to be clear.

Trust me, I am indeed listening. You are the expert on Concord Mechanics. If I know "squat" you are a **** poor teacher. Feel free to revisit the godamn 19 pages of regurgitated crap if you don't believe me.

Concord still doesn't protect, after all this time. It only punishes. That punishment CAN be a deterrent to those who wish to gank, but it doesn't prevent it. Got it. It's a risk in the risk vs reward, because Concord will blow you up if you try to gank someone, but it won't stop them from doing it. So it isn't protection, but it CAN be only "if if if if blah blah blah" it's under the right circumstances to say it is.

Anywhoo, enjoy your weekend, my shift is over =)

Fly safe guys.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2013-04-06 21:03:25 UTC
TL/DR: Concord increases safety in hisec by protecting everyone in hisec. It does this by acting as a deterrence, by promising retribution on anyone performing any aggression in hisec. Thus, they're protectors.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#363 - 2013-04-06 21:05:02 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



You made sure to remind me by saying it 4 times.

I made sure to be clear.

Trust me, I am indeed listening. You are the expert on Concord Mechanics. If I know "squat" you are a **** poor teacher. Feel free to revisit the godamn 19 pages of regurgitated crap if you don't believe me.

Concord still doesn't protect, after all this time. It only punishes.

Anywhoo, enjoy your weekend, my shift is over =)

Fly safe guys.


I did not say all concord protection is a bannable offence, just that one tactic CCP considers an exploit.

Concord provides protection in the same way that nukes protected both the USA and USSR. Via deterrence
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#364 - 2013-04-06 21:16:00 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
TL/DR: Concord increases safety in hisec by protecting everyone in hisec. It does this by acting as a deterrence, by promising retribution on anyone performing any aggression in hisec. Thus, they're protectors.


As it is with Concord, it is in real life. People being protected by the existance of police force rarely understand this until the police force is gone.

In every society their are people who can't be deterred by anything other than a bullet to the face (here in Texas, we say "sometimes, a guy just needs killin" lol), but beyond those people there are others who WOULD commit various crimes if there was no organized force to deter them. The net affect is less crime than you would otherwise have.

Protection is not an absolute. The Law Enforcement Agency I work for doesn't (usually) protect by physically standing between bad people and everoyne else, it protects by controlling the total number of bad people free to roam our area. Absolute protection isn't even physically possible.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#365 - 2013-04-06 21:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



You made sure to remind me by saying it 4 times.

I made sure to be clear.

Trust me, I am indeed listening. You are the expert on Concord Mechanics. If I know "squat" you are a **** poor teacher. Feel free to revisit the godamn 19 pages of regurgitated crap if you don't believe me.

Concord still doesn't protect, after all this time. It only punishes.

Anywhoo, enjoy your weekend, my shift is over =)

Fly safe guys.


I did not say all concord protection is a bannable offence, just that one tactic CCP considers an exploit.

Concord provides protection in the same way that nukes protected both the USA and USSR. Via deterrence



Exactly, and those nukes dind't keep us out of smaller wars, they just prevented the bigger more disasterous wars.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#366 - 2013-04-06 22:46:21 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
So to bring everything back up to speed... Lord Zim says Concord Protects, Baltec1 says it's bannable to use
Concord for protection, Ruby says Concord doesn't prevent, but deters, and Murk says that Concord is a cost assessment for risk vs reward.

And Rancor is HS without Concord.

Weird ******* thread.


Only if you run the thread through the idiot filter.

Baltec has been saying that a specific instance of abusing CONCORD to provide individual protection not normally provided is against the rules.

Zim has been saying that CONCORD provides protection in general.

I have been saying that CONCORD provides protection in general.

And you have said that CONCORD provides protection.

Murk Paradox wrote:
Protection comes as a by product, but does not define what Concord is.


And somehow you're still confused as to what service CONCORD provides.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Frying Doom
#367 - 2013-04-06 22:49:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Protection comes as a by product, but does not define what Concord is.


And somehow you're still confused as to what service CONCORD provides.

Are you trying to imply that they are not a chocolate vendor?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#368 - 2013-04-06 22:53:23 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Are you trying to imply that they are not a chocolate vendor?


A few coconuts short of a bounty you say.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2013-04-06 22:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
baltec1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Are you trying to imply that they are not a chocolate vendor?


A few coconuts short of a bounty you say.

DELICHUS WEENIE!

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#370 - 2013-04-07 00:09:38 UTC
On topic would be, Concord provides protection but no one has to pay for it. That is the part I don't get.

Bad pun in 3 seconds....

Most of this talk about Concord is just sour grapes.
Frying Doom
#371 - 2013-04-07 00:11:50 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
On topic would be, Concord provides protection but no one has to pay for it. That is the part I don't get.

Bad pun in 3 seconds....

Most of this talk about Concord is just sour grapes.

And now we lead back to another reason why NPC station industry slots should be more expensive. To pay for the hi-sec police as the NPC corporations are sick of paying for their smelly customers.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#372 - 2013-04-07 00:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Hrm.... This has really turned into a threadnaught since I left last night.

Where to begin....

Technically all the wardecs pay for the cost of concord protection. I mean 50 million a week at a mimimun isn't something to sneeze at especially if you are decing corps that cost more than that.

I suppose many of you would think it would be awesome if you could pay the police $5,000 so you could beat up your neighbors for a week.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Frying Doom
#373 - 2013-04-07 00:26:59 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Hrm.... This has really turned into a threadnaught since I left last night.

Where to begin....

Technically all the wardecs pay for the cost of concord protection. I mean 50 million a week at a mimimun isn't something to sneeze at especially if you are decing corps that cost more than that.

I suppose many of you would think it would be awesome if you could pay the police $5,000 so you could beat up your neighbors for a week.

War Decs are bribes.

I don't know about you but if I worked for CONCORD I would want to be paid, besides why would members of concord want to pay for their ships with bribes.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#374 - 2013-04-07 00:36:32 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Hrm.... This has really turned into a threadnaught since I left last night.

Where to begin....

Technically all the wardecs pay for the cost of concord protection. I mean 50 million a week at a mimimun isn't something to sneeze at especially if you are decing corps that cost more than that.

I suppose many of you would think it would be awesome if you could pay the police $5,000 so you could beat up your neighbors for a week.

War Decs are bribes.

I don't know about you but if I worked for CONCORD I would want to be paid, besides why would members of concord want to pay for their ships with bribes.


I don't know my history, but I do recall many police officials suplimenting most of their extraordinary income with bribes back in the day.

I mean how to pay for all those hotel nights with the mistress.

Concord apparently sees wardecs as official business as they have no qualms about making the bribes public for all to pay for.

Maybe all those taxes and broker fees go to concord as well. I don't know.

Of course it could be that concord police just get a hard on for blowing people up with god ships and do it for the lulz.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#375 - 2013-04-07 00:42:35 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Most of this talk about Concord is just sour grapes.


Ah, no, it's observation and correcting some false beliefs what policing is or not.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#376 - 2013-04-08 13:02:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



You made sure to remind me by saying it 4 times.

I made sure to be clear.

Trust me, I am indeed listening. You are the expert on Concord Mechanics. If I know "squat" you are a **** poor teacher. Feel free to revisit the godamn 19 pages of regurgitated crap if you don't believe me.

Concord still doesn't protect, after all this time. It only punishes.

Anywhoo, enjoy your weekend, my shift is over =)

Fly safe guys.


I did not say all concord protection is a bannable offence, just that one tactic CCP considers an exploit.

Concord provides protection in the same way that nukes protected both the USA and USSR. Via deterrence



That's actually the best way to prove Concord is not a protector. Since nukes aren't known for their protection. Their known for their disastrous effect and everyone knows a nuke is made to destroy, not protect =).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2013-04-08 13:06:53 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
That's actually the best way to prove Concord is not a protector. Since nukes aren't known for their protection. Their known for their disastrous effect and everyone knows a nuke is made to destroy, not protect =).

Having sufficient amounts of nukes to be able to destroy the other guy acts as a deterrent, and as such protects you from the other guy sending nukes in the first place.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#378 - 2013-04-08 13:13:28 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
That's actually the best way to prove Concord is not a protector. Since nukes aren't known for their protection. Their known for their disastrous effect and everyone knows a nuke is made to destroy, not protect =).

Having sufficient amounts of nukes to be able to destroy the other guy acts as a deterrent, and as such protects you from the other guy sending nukes in the first place.



Think of that statement and how that would apply to say.... development of nuclear arms in the world as of right now (won't name specific countries but you should see where I'm going with this).

Then go ahead and say (enter country name) is trying to be a "protector".

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2013-04-08 13:15:26 UTC
You can twist, turn and squirm as much as you'd like, concord acts as hisec's protection.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#380 - 2013-04-08 13:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Lord Zim wrote:
You can twist, turn and squirm as much as you'd like, concord acts as hisec's protection.



You keep saying that and killboards and tears prove otherwise.

Concord's success rate in retribution is what... 100%?

Their success rate in protecting from ganks is what... maybe 5%?

Their success in preventing ganks(through deterrence) is what..... maybe that same 5%? Maybe lower?

It's not a matter of squirming, it's a matter of definition.

You can use a hammer to screw in a bolt, but it's still a ******* hammer meant to bash things.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.