These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Skilltraining boost for newer players?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zenaku Seishin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-10-31 15:16:16 UTC
Hello, I just started over I had 46 mill sp char 1.5 years ago, i Started this char up like 1 year ago but then been inactive along time, just reactivated.

Anyway, I have been trying to get friends etc in to this game, but even though they find it fun, they feel it takes too long before they can really get going with the fun stuff.

My suggestion is boost SP gained below a certain amount.

Lets say that between 1 and 5mill SP everyone trains 4x normal speed. Between 5 and 10 mill sp 2x normal speed. Then after 10 mill u train normal.

Something like that, just to give new players/returning players a boost.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-10-31 15:34:44 UTC
This is already in the game in the form of the Cerebral Accelerator, which gives younger players a boost to their attributes early on. There has also been, in the past, a double-speed boost for the first few SP (I think it was 1.5M, but I'm not at all sure).

This is working as intended though, there are speed boosts for younger players, but there's no escaping the fact that it is hard work to train up for stuff.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-31 15:43:53 UTC
Zenaku Seishin wrote:
Hello, I just started over I had 46 mill sp char 1.5 years ago, i Started this char up like 1 year ago but then been inactive along time, just reactivated.

Anyway, I have been trying to get friends etc in to this game, but even though they find it fun, they feel it takes too long before they can really get going with the fun stuff.

My suggestion is boost SP gained below a certain amount.

Lets say that between 1 and 5mill SP everyone trains 4x normal speed. Between 5 and 10 mill sp 2x normal speed. Then after 10 mill u train normal.

Something like that, just to give new players/returning players a boost.



The problem may be your definition of "fun". If you define "fun" as "Huge capital Fleets where I can fly a carrier!" then yes, this takes a while.

If fun is "PvP", you can do that in a couple of hours.

If fun is "gank everyone I meet and never lose" then you need to change your definition because no amount of skill points in the world is going to make that possible.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Zenaku Seishin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-31 15:47:14 UTC
Fun for me is being able to live and fight in 0.0 space, being able to rat there, being useful in pvp ops etc.

Not fun losing in t1 crap ships :)

I dunno i still think a bigger boost up till a certain point would attract more people, so it doesnt take half a year to be able to live in 0.0
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#5 - 2011-10-31 15:54:22 UTC
Zenaku Seishin wrote:
Fun for me is being able to live and fight in 0.0 space, being able to rat there, being useful in pvp ops etc.

Not fun losing in t1 crap ships :)

I dunno i still think a bigger boost up till a certain point would attract more people, so it doesnt take half a year to be able to live in 0.0


I'm pretty sure you can train up a decent BC in about a month or so, including support skills to 3-4 and all. A halfway decent BC is all you really need to do ok in 0.0. No, you may not be raking in the ISK off Sanctums and DED sites, but any decently fit BC can handle the belt rats fine.
Zenaku Seishin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-31 16:23:15 UTC
U wont have sufficient skills after 1 month to support urself ratting in 0.0 no way.

And I am not suggesting everyone should be able to get in supercaps after 6months etc. Just the first 5-10 mill SP where you get ur supportskills done, and make urself usefull, should be done in like 3-4 months, instead of 6-7 IMO. I am just speaking from personal experience where I could have had alot more friends playing I think, if they were able to advance faster, and not feel like they were so far behind established players they would never make an impact to Eve.
uglybass
Spatial Idiocity Inc.
#7 - 2011-10-31 17:55:34 UTC
I remember flying crappy cyclone and trying to find 1 x BS spawns that I could actually kill.
2 x BS spawns maybe.
3 x BS spawns noway.
I was self sufficient, just not that effective. but I was there ;)
Estheria Quintessimo
Mechanical Eagles Inc.
#8 - 2011-10-31 18:25:55 UTC
Zenaku Seishin wrote:
U wont have sufficient skills after 1 month to support urself ratting in 0.0 no way.

And I am not suggesting everyone should be able to get in supercaps after 6months etc. Just the first 5-10 mill SP where you get ur supportskills done, and make urself usefull, should be done in like 3-4 months, instead of 6-7 IMO. I am just speaking from personal experience where I could have had alot more friends playing I think, if they were able to advance faster, and not feel like they were so far behind established players they would never make an impact to Eve.


But even with your proposed turbo's ... they would still be behind some players by years. Skills are not found in training skills. Suppose the proposed boost runs out, ... what then? At that point they would still be behind anyway.

If all new players get an auto boost in the skill training, then the whole point of a boost disappears. It would be like standing at red traffic lights, and getting a speedboost the moment it turns green. however if everyone will get that boost, who is at the red light, ... then the point of the boost is nullified. And they will still never catch up to those who went from red to green several years before.

I do get your point though. Training skills up takes time. However, there are lots of things you can do before you get to the nicer skills. Like learning the mechanics of the game and such. Or find a good corp. A teenager in a Ferarri is more likely to crash then when you get the Ferarri when you are thirty, imho.

Neque femina amissa pudicitia alia abnuerit.
Zenaku Seishin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-10-31 18:32:11 UTC
Estheria Quintessimo wrote:
Zenaku Seishin wrote:
U wont have sufficient skills after 1 month to support urself ratting in 0.0 no way.

And I am not suggesting everyone should be able to get in supercaps after 6months etc. Just the first 5-10 mill SP where you get ur supportskills done, and make urself usefull, should be done in like 3-4 months, instead of 6-7 IMO. I am just speaking from personal experience where I could have had alot more friends playing I think, if they were able to advance faster, and not feel like they were so far behind established players they would never make an impact to Eve.


But even with your proposed turbo's ... they would still be behind some players by years. Skills are not found in training skills. Suppose the proposed boost runs out, ... what then? At that point they would still be behind anyway.

If all new players get an auto boost in the skill training, then the whole point of a boost disappears. It would be like standing at red traffic lights, and getting a speedboost the moment it turns green. however if everyone will get that boost, who is at the red light, ... then the point of the boost is nullified. And they will still never catch up to those who went from red to green several years before.

I do get your point though. Training skills up takes time. However, there are lots of things you can do before you get to the nicer skills. Like learning the mechanics of the game and such. Or find a good corp. A teenager in a Ferarri is more likely to crash then when you get the Ferarri when you are thirty, imho.


I am asking for a boost up to 10 mill sp . Yes you are still behind, but by then you can have a well rounded char that will be able to do the aspect of the game you enjoy, if ur in to pvp, you should have sufficient skills for the ship of our choice, likewise if ur in to mining etc. The whole purpose is not to have people wait around for along time just running empire missions.

Your opinion might differ from mine, but I feel it takes too long to get in to the "end game". IN other mmorpgs if u play it somewhat hardcore, you can get in to the endgame in between 3weeks to 2 months. In eve it takes ages, its both good and bad, I just feel like it scares alot of people away. And im not asking it to be WoWish where u can get 85 and raid in 2 weeks, because that is not what Eve is about. I do feel however there is too much random stuff everyone needs to train in the beginning which is just taking along time and ur basicly just waiting around for skills to finish, atleast thats how I feel up to a certain point, that point being 7-10 mill SP.
Estheria Quintessimo
Mechanical Eagles Inc.
#10 - 2011-10-31 19:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Estheria Quintessimo
It's indeed a difference of opinion.

I personally find it fun, the search for new things to go and train up, and figure out what to work towards. I understand the WoW anology and I agree it should not be like WoW is now. in that game if you play for a few days you have an 85 easy. WoW has become a consumer game for people who have no patience. All needs to be fast fast fast.

I would hate to see Eve become like that, as I rather like the low "leveling" or skilling up in this game. For most because I do not play it daily, nor every week sometimes. Sometimes the only thing I do is a quick log in, skill up, log out, perhaps do some pve, or some mining on my main. This char (as ex.) is around 5mil in training. It's fairly new. I have the advantage having a main with more training and knowing what to specifically train. I know what I want to do on Estheria. So all I do is mostly train atm. I do not mind it.

Personally though, I find the EVE way of doing it more real. Suppose it was real life, ... you wont become the captain on an aircraftcarrier in 2 months. Yeah I do understand, ... well atleast a quick boost so you'd be ably to fly a F16, then pace to normal! ... I just dont agree with it. We have already been complemented in EVE a while back. Where we gotten the 24h training-Q and we did not need to train the learning skills anymore. This alrdy has been a boost to many new players, saving them tons of time in skilling up.

We have a difference of opinion .... no harm in that. Blink

P.S.
The main harm I see in this ... Is because I saw it happen in WoW too. 7 years ago it took time there too, to level up and get to the cool stuff. But over the years all the slowness has disappeared. If Blizzard keeps it up then in a few years time you buy the game, load it, and get a question: "Welcome to WoW, what level 100 would you like to create?"
If you give such permanent boosts in EVE for starters, ... then a month after it's introduction people would start asking for more boosts because they still cant get quick enough what they want to have. There will be no end to it. It will go on and on. I think at some point you simply have to say .... go play another game then.

Neque femina amissa pudicitia alia abnuerit.
Zenaku Seishin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-10-31 19:12:13 UTC
Estheria Quintessimo wrote:
It's indeed a difference of opinion.

I personally find it fun, the search for new things to go and train up, and figure out what to work towards. I understand the WoW anology and I agree it should not be like WoW is now. in that game if you play for a few days you have an 85 easy. WoW has become a consumer game for people who have no patience. All needs to be fast fast fast.

I would hate to see Eve become like that, as I rather like the low "leveling" or skilling up in this game. For most because I do not play it daily, nor every week sometimes. Sometimes the only thing I do is a quick log in, skill up, log out, perhaps do some pve, or some mining on my main. This char (as ex.) is around 5mil in training. It's fairly new. I have the advantage having a main with more training and knowing what to specifically train. I know what I want to do on Estheria. So all I do is mostly train atm. I do not mind it.

Personally though, I find the EVE way of doing it more real. Suppose it was real life, ... you wont become the captain on an aircraftcarrier in 2 months. Yeah I do understand, ... well atleast a quick boost so you'd be ably to fly a F16, then pace to normal! ... I just dont agree with it. We have already been complemented in EVE a while back. Where we gotten the 24h training-Q and we did not need to train the learning skills anymore. This alrdy has been a boost to many new players, saving them tons of time in skilling up.

We have a difference of opinion .... no harm in that. Blink

'
If u started over you would feel different :D
Estheria Quintessimo
Mechanical Eagles Inc.
#12 - 2011-10-31 19:18:48 UTC
Ow you alrdy replied ... I have added a P.S.

Neque femina amissa pudicitia alia abnuerit.
Zenaku Seishin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-10-31 19:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenaku Seishin
Estheria Quintessimo wrote:
Ow you alrdy replied ... I have added a P.S.


Regarding to what u said, there is still a limit to how long it should take. Im just asking for it to be faster than currently. You want it slow, but i dont assume u want it 5 mill sp per year slow ? I know its not that now, just saying there is a sweet spot somewhere, and for new players i still feel a boost up until about 7-10mill sp would be nice.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#14 - 2011-10-31 19:51:55 UTC
Zenaku Seishin wrote:
Estheria Quintessimo wrote:
Ow you alrdy replied ... I have added a P.S.


Regarding to what u said, there is still a limit to how long it should take. Im just asking for it to be faster than currently. You want it slow, but i dont assume u want it 5 mill sp per year slow ? I know its not that now, just saying there is a softspot somewhere, and for new players i still feel a boost up until about 7-10mill sp would be nice.


I believe the point he's making is that we already have a soft-spot with regards to training speed. The system works extremely well as is, I don't see any need to change it.

And, for the record, I have trained up alts, and starting from scratch does take some time, but I would rather it take time than to start down the slippery slope of speeding up training time. It really is a "if you give a mouse a cookie" situation, we already have what we need, in the form of removed learning skills and the skill queue, we don't need to simplify training anymore.