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BS for C4

Author
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#1 - 2013-04-05 20:29:04 UTC
Hello wormhole community. I am prepairing to depart to wormhole in the closest weeks and i was playing around with EFT to devise ship setup proper for doing anoms in C4 or C3. I have 4 accounts and i plan to use two of them as BS dps and two as logi support. At start T1 later on T2 logis.

I try to avoid all T3 cruiser fleet because onlu 2 of my 4 accounts can fly T3s. And even them dont fly them very well but i read that BSes with logi support might work in WH space as well as T3 fleets.

I devised 2xAbaddon with 2xAuguror support might be feasible. it can dish out 1K dps per abaddon for 30km and tank 600DPS on auguror and 900 dps on each abaddon.



I would like to know opinion of comunitty on this kind of fleet setup and tactics.

Next question i would like to ask is: Why not 2xCNR 2xOsprey? I have never read about using CNRs in WH yet even though with propper ewar (TP,web) they can apply nice damage to cruisers and have far supperrior damage to sleeper BSes.

Stats are 1700 DPS per CNR or 1380 per ordinar raven and tank is 1400 per osprey.

Fits follows:
Abaddon:

[Abaddon, C4+ passive long]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router II
Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Anti-EM Pump I


Hammerhead II x5


Auguror:

[Augoror, C4 logi]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Energy Transfer Array II
Medium Energy Transfer Array II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Hobgoblin II x4


CNR:
[Raven Navy Issue, C4+ passive short exp]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Large 'Notos' Explosive Charge I

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Warrior SW-300 x5

Osprey:
[Osprey, C4+ cheap]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Medium 'Regard' Power Projector
Medium 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Hobgoblin II x4

Raven (cheap-**** CNR):
[Raven, C4+ short passive cheap]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Inferno Rage Torpedo
Large 'Vehemence' Shockwave Charge
[empty high slot]

Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I


Hammerhead II x5
Lydia vanPersie
Soltech Armada
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2013-04-05 23:32:25 UTC
What you've posted so far seems far too shiny. Take those into a C3 and you're pretty much guaranteed to come out at a loss as you won't have a wspace static to farm. C4 anomalies have ~1000DPS per wave, so with even a single logistics cruiser you'd be able to shrug off all the incoming DPS, and with two it will be more boring than L2s in a passivedrake. One thing you'll find incredibly useful as a WH dweller is an ECM ship to Mag Blitz. Simply take a Blackbird/Falcon/Rook into a radar or mag site, kill everything but the trigger in the first wave, and jam the trigger while one of your alts opens and loots the cans.

(^;

Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#3 - 2013-04-06 08:04:07 UTC
your setup wont be optimal in c4's at all.

1) From the actual warpin, the sleepers tend to be 60km+ out. If you use bookmarks, the later waves tend to spawn about 100km away. Especially in frontier barracks.
2) with 4 accounts; get t2 logi and 3 dps ships that cap transfer. learn to manage cap use well since nueting esp against 4 safeguards is insane.
3) 3 out of the 4 sites have spawns that do 1500 dps on bs.
4) the higher end mag and radar have a last spawn that shoots out 2400dps+, webs, scrams and nuets. those need 2 logi or logi/ecm + good resists.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#4 - 2013-04-06 21:00:48 UTC
[quote=Adoris Nolen]your setup wont be optimal in c4's at all.
get t2 logi and 3 dps ships that cap transfer/quote]

Logi wont be targeted by sleepers? I was unable to find fit of logi which could tank some reasonable DPs on its own even with BS cap transfer.
Slaveofjita
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-04-06 21:26:48 UTC
I have used this while training for a t3 for a while now.

[Tempest Fleet Issue, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


And honestly if you have ships doing 1k dps you can just tag along with the t3 and have them rep you, as long as they have 2-3 you shouldn't have any trouble. You literally do 2x damage of basic tengu.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-04-07 12:33:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Big DPS doesn't mean anything when you're effective range is 30KM and the sleepers are spawning 60km to 100km away from you. And you're never going to get in range of some BS's because they will start burning away from you at 55KM at a speed of 89m/s and you're only going 110m/s.

As for the artillery. Yes, that would be a better solution but you're still going to have tracking and DPS issues with the frigates and cruisers.

I've been in C4 territory for a long time. And I can tell you, that BS's are not the best. And really, to make it worth the effort, you need the best because otherwise, you should be running HS Incursions when you factor in income - w-space cost of living + losses over time. The only setup using a BS that I've found to actually be more effective than 2 Tengus was 2 Tengus fit with AB remote repping a Machariel. The next best was a 3 domi remote rep energy transfer setup using sentry drones. On paper, using Gardes, you get 650dps/BS. The reality is you're going to average 350 - 450dps since Gardes are not going to hit out to 60KM .

It really always comes back to a 2 RR Tengu fleet being the best setup for running anoms in a C4. Sanctums and mag/radar sites will, of course, require 4 to 5 Tengus depending on skills. Sure, a Tengu is going to be hitting for only +500dps but that will be 99% of the time using TP's. Whereas, with a +1000DPS BS you're only going to be hitting for full DPS maybe 25% of the time which gives you an effective DPS of 250DPS for the entire time you're running that anom.

I know a lot of people hate Tengus for idealistic reasons. I like to be more practical. Unfortunately, because this game requires isk or money to operate you really should consider your in game income as a business decision so you're spending more of your time actually playing the game how you want.

Don't ban me, bro!

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-04-07 14:59:52 UTC
Then again, on TQ two RR Domis are actually slightly faster than three Tengus running C3s.

.

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-04-08 00:40:55 UTC
Roime wrote:
Then again, on TQ two RR Domis are actually slightly faster than three Tengus running C3s.



Topography is different....sleepers aren't spawning so far away...more frigs and cruisers, less BS's that hang +50km out. Not saying they can't be faster, just saying different situations.

Don't ban me, bro!

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#9 - 2013-04-08 02:56:47 UTC
Roime wrote:
Then again, on TQ two RR Domis are actually slightly faster than three Tengus running C3s.



Do they take less than three and a half minute?
If not, then false.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7