Warfare & Tactics

Wow. Twelve pages now.
Seems there are many many many people unhappy.
I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P
They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".

Edit: Page 13 :D

I think there is an important distinction between Faction war as a whole (and generally low sec pvp) and Faction war sov in particular.

Faction war as a whole and the pvp you can get in low sec I think people are generally are glad for great improvements ccp made. Myself included. The changes to the rats in plexes have made pvping in them better and the changes to gcc has greatly increased the targets.

But when it comes to fw sov there is a divide between a handfull of systems that are major bases for militias and the other 90% of systems. There has no doubt been large fights and much pvp in the handfull of base systems. But if you not interested in the larger fleet fights of those base systems and look to the other 90% well thats very disappointing.

Its the vast majority of people who have given up caring about sov in the other 90% of systems because the mechanics are horrible. They are horrible because the way to win involves horribly boring and tedious gameplay instead of challenging and exciting game play.

There is a pattern here. The sov rp'ers are all unhappy. All the pvp'ers i know consider this a growing golden age of pvp.

I don't really rp. I fight for the faction that I am in, and don't awox or spy, but thats about it. I never really could get into the whole race backstory. You and xg are much more rpers with your constant gallente are better than squids schtick. Most people on the minmatar amarr front strike me as a bit more mature/sane than that.

To be clear, I am not saying that rpers are insane, but you guys seem to go beyond that. You seem to take the rp into real life. I have seen innumerable non-rp fw threads degenerate into you guys insulting eachother. Its pretty crazy actually. The rpers at least seem to understand that they are playing a fictional role, and don't make the insults personal.


I just think fixing the 90% of sov that is broken would make the game allot more fun. It would add depth/context to the otherwise meaningless pvp. And yes it would increase the amount of pvp involved in the sov war. If you don't care abotu the other 90% of the systems, and supposedly don't support the farmers, then I don't see why you are so against proposals to make the other 90% of system's sov determined by pvp.

True, but as we are not even sure that CCP reads our goings on, making tons of demands/suggestions for changes is a way to position ourselves for when/if CCP notices .. at that point it becomes a negotiation and with CCP having the power of a god (being the developer), giving them a bunch of stuff to shake their head and scream NO! at allows them to feel like the mighty entity they are while still serving us something we want/need - a face-saving exercise basically. All we need do is make sure that the auto-run timer is placed front and center so that is the thing we end up getting.

Fake Edit: Oops, mightily dumb of me to spill the beans where the manipulation/negotiation target can read it!

While I am in favor of timer rollbacks and agree that it seems to be the most popular proposal right now. It is inaccurate to say that it is universally accepted by everyone.

Several people are not in favor of this change based on the arguments that "farmers gonna farm", and "stop whining" and "it won't really change anything"

If the person suggesting it is in fw you will also see arguments like "If you don't like fw why don't you quit"

If the person posting is in fw you will see the argument "you aren't even in fw."

Bottom line is ccp has to make up their mind whether they want fw sov to coninue to be a carebear race. If they decide they want to change it to a pvp mechanic, then they need to look at the reasons people have for or against proposals. They need to cut through the stupid arguments and look at the posts that actually make sense to reasonable people.

weird thing is that those same people still whine after ccp made almost all changes they wanted.

You think that farmers are having no impact because the caldari are still losing? Is your reasoning is that farmers don't defensive plex because they don't make isk and therefore because the gallente are holding systems that must mean the farming isn't so bad?

If so that may be technically true about "farming" but the problem isn't so much "farmers" as it is "rabbits." Rabbits are fw plexers who run from all pvp because that is the most efficient way to plex. That is the main problem I see and that is even more rampant in defensive plexes.

The best indicator of whether fw sov is pvp is to look at the highest vp gainers for that day and then look at the killboard for the day they earned the highest amount of vp. The rest are just unreliable indicators.

Ill go with actual data instead of your claims.

Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex.

Great conclusion to reach.

Because gallente/minmatar have as many or more rabbits as the caldari/amarr. Minmatar and Gallente have about 10,000 pilots the amarr caldari have just under 9000.

Anyway I am finding more and more of the people who actually fight in the plexes are in neither militia. Its just basically a replacement for the top belt.