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TIBUS HETH ANGRILY DENOUNCES CALDARI PRIME DMZ, BLASTS ISHUKONE AND SUVEE PARTICIPATION

Author
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#81 - 2013-04-07 21:13:53 UTC
I should make it known that I have, on more than one occasion, publicly reprimanded and even insulted Commander Diana Kim. I should also make it known that I have carefully avoided doing so again. Not because of some "secret" visit by Provist jackboots but simply because I realize that there is nothing constructive or edifying in doing so.

Commander Kim and I disagree on many things but I have and will fight by her side and defend her from the enemies of the State. She is every bit as Caldari as I am though our allegiances differ slightly. She gives her allegiance to a single man: Tibus Heth. I give mine to the Caldari people and to the State they have chosen to lead them. Consequently, our stances on war, politics, economy and peace differ dramatically.

In light of all of this, I would call her Caldari. I would call her a sister in arms.

What I cannot abide and will not abide is direct defiance and opposition to the CEP. The placing of a single individual above the established and merited rule of the Chief Executive Panel is a betrayal of the very people we call ourselves a part of. These are our leaders, among them stands Tibus Heth as Chief Executive Officer over Kaalakiota-Yitri. I will honor Heth-sejiikin for as long as he maintains his position, though I disagree with him on many things.

I will honor Commander Kim for as long as she remains loyal to the State.

With that said:

Commander Kim, I implore you to submit yourself to the ruling of the Chief Executive Panel. Let your actions be judged by those with the authority and honor to do so. Your opposition to the CEP sanctioned actions regarding the Sukuuvestaa relief convoy are understandable in light of your loyalty to KK-Yitri Chief Executor Tibus Heth but they were in opposition to a majority directive of the Chief Executive Panel, of which Heth is only a singular member among eight.

Let the Panel decide the merit and honor of your actions and if you are loyal to the State and to the Caldari people as I believe you truly consider yourself to be, you will respect their ruling and honor it to the best of your ability.

Walk with wisdom, commander.

~Malcolm Khross

Shiho Weitong
Yeet and Yoink Inc.
Heirs To The Pleasurehub
#82 - 2013-04-07 21:15:35 UTC
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
Shiho Weitong wrote:

If you are not walking the way of the winds, you cannot hope to understand the way of the winds.
If you are not Kim-haanis direct superior you cannot pass judgement on her.
Your observations, whether they might be true or not, are irrelevant.


Understanding of a culture or spirituality does not hold a requirement that you be of that culture or spirituality.
If it did, no culture would ever evolve.

Opinions and judgements are made on a daily basis. You yourself pass judgement on others with the very words you speak, yet tell others that they cannot pass judgement.

as for the third statement, when untrue, an observation may be irrelevant. When true, by it's very nature, an observation must hold some relevance.

Dismissing someone's ideas, whether true or otherwise, simply because you do not agree with them is willful ignorance, that is a dangerous path to take.


Seven Tribes.
One Matari People.


I'm impressed just how much you managed to misrepresent my words there.

Regardless of what you might think to know and understand about Caldari culture, you do not hold a position where you can strip Kim-haani of her citizenship.
That was the judgement that was passed, and the judgement you claim anyone can make.
I do not care about peoples opinions and they are free to state them. They are not, however, free to claim that a statesman is not of the state.

Well. They can claim it.
And sound like ignorant children in the process.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#83 - 2013-04-07 21:56:37 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
At distances of up to 14-20 meters a skilled assailant with a melee weapon or hand-to-hand training can kill you before you can draw, un-safety and fire a pistol.

That depends on how much training one has with a pistol, and how good one's reflexes are.

It also depends on where the pistol is holstered.

That Diana Kim is howling like a monkey about sword fights suggests she's too much of a coward to face someone in space, where she might lose something of actual value.


Well, quite, if we put an Olympic pistol shooter up against, say, someone in a coma then the pistol will beat the sword everytime.

However, given someone trained to a certain standard in melee verus someone trained to an equal standard in pistol and given the most usual placement for pistol weapons (holstered at the hip, safed) between 14 to 20 meters should see the pistoleer dead and not the melee participant.

In the study I read, the pistol was holstered, but the holster was not secured - ie the grip snap was unfastened.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Commander A9
This Was The Way
#84 - 2013-04-08 03:00:45 UTC
Well, we knew there was going to be a response...

But I can't help but feel like something big is coming...

Recommendations:

-enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters)

-add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot)

-STOP NERFING EVERYTHING!

Join Live Events!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#85 - 2013-04-08 05:16:05 UTC
The cards are on the table, and there is going to be a civil war in the Caldari state.


I also suspect that the "houses" of the Amarrian Empire are getting tired of elbow-knocking and the Minmatar are going to have some scores to settle internally.


This would leave the Federation, which might have a spat over the closings of the pleasure hubs.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Araynor Tassadore
Federal Federation
#86 - 2013-04-08 07:55:37 UTC
With the complete retaking of Black Rise...shortly followed by the destruction of the States most powerful Flagship, which was destroyed in a matter of minutes.

Recent events would behoove the Caldari State (if you would call it that) to stand down its military operations and focus more on Humanitarian Aid. I personally feel the Ishukone and Sukuuvestaa Corporation's as having the best of intentions for the Caldari people on Caldari Prime, and would urge the other Caldari corporations to do the same. As more violence would only lead to an unstable Caldari State.

Tibus Heth in his "infinite wisdom",has not granted any gains or peace for his people since he was "appointed" Executor. With his health conditions, I believe his mental stability has deteriorated, most notably is his general irritability. Which in turn could be severely clouding his judgement...and let us remember how he rose to power....and by whom. Of course here in my computer lies a holoreel of the Personnel File on... Xavier Black...and who is he? Well...I can certainly tell you he is no Caldari Patriot.

Nothing is more important than the importance of nothing.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2013-04-08 08:24:51 UTC
And a month ago it was looking like you'd be lucky to hold a single system in Black Rise. The Militia War is a cyclical thing and when the Minmatar profiteers return to their homes equilibrium will return.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Merdez Troopar
Federal Federation
#88 - 2013-04-08 10:08:18 UTC
There is no fact that Republic Forces or Minmatar Militia's had any influence whatsoever on the gains that the Gallente Federation made in Black Rise. As allies of the Federation we do support one another, but are not obligated to assist in military operations that do not progress our peoples nation.

As I recall the same nearly happened to the Amarr Empire's systems just recently...but this isn't about war fronts. Since the Fall of the Shiigeru, there have been better diplomatic relations with the Caldari Corporations than there has been in centuries...with improved security for trade into Jita. I firmly believe a DMZ at Caldari Prime eliminates the tension that the State has ensued on the Gallente peoples.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#89 - 2013-04-08 10:18:33 UTC
Merdez Troopar wrote:
There is no fact that Republic Forces or Minmatar Militia's had any influence whatsoever on the gains that the Gallente Federation made in Black Rise. As allies of the Federation we do support one another, but are not obligated to assist in military operations that do not progress our peoples nation.

As I recall the same nearly happened to the Amarr Empire's systems just recently...but this isn't about war fronts. Since the Fall of the Shiigeru, there have been better diplomatic relations with the Caldari Corporations than there has been in centuries...with improved security for trade into Jita. I firmly believe a DMZ at Caldari Prime eliminates the tension that the State has ensued on the Gallente peoples.


While I agree with most of your sentiment, I should state to you that the "fact that Republic Forces" or "Minmatar militia" have had an effect on gains in Black Rise is evident to anyone participating in that field of battle. I have seen more TLF pilots working to capture military complexes and running from any confrontation while flying cloak and warp stabilizer fit ships than Gallente militia.

~Malcolm Khross

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#90 - 2013-04-08 10:23:18 UTC
Araynor Tassadore wrote:
With the complete retaking of Black Rise...shortly followed by the destruction of the States most powerful Flagship, which was destroyed in a matter of minutes.


First, Black Rise has not been completely retaken. Second, the Shiigeru was not the State flagship, nor our most powerful. Third, this is a really poor way to begin a speech of you're hoping to offer advice that we would actually place any merit on.

Araynor Tassadore wrote:
Recent events would behoove the Caldari State (if you would call it that) to stand down its military operations and focus more on Humanitarian Aid.


The State is quite capable of doing both simultaneously.

Your input and suggestions will be weighed for what they're worth.

~Malcolm Khross

Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-04-08 10:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Anja Suorsa
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Araynor Tassadore wrote:
Recent events would behoove the Caldari State (if you would call it that) to stand down its military operations and focus more on Humanitarian Aid.


The State is quite capable of doing both simultaneously.

Your input and suggestions will be weighed for what they're worth.


Which is to say; "Not very much."

Mr Tassadore if you want to offer friendly advice, it might behoove you to do so without blatantly insulting the people you wish to take said advice.
Araynor Tassadore
Federal Federation
#92 - 2013-04-08 11:18:33 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Araynor Tassadore wrote:
Recent events would behoove the Caldari State (if you would call it that) to stand down its military operations and focus more on Humanitarian Aid.


The State is quite capable of doing both simultaneously.

Your input and suggestions will be weighed for what they're worth.


Which is to say; "Not very much."

Mr Tassadore if you want to offer friendly advice, it might behoove you to do so without blatantly insulting the people you wish to take said advice.


I doubt the State could look past they're blood lust to simultaneously provide aid, and I think you may have misunderstood my comment...because I wasn't offering anything nor was I being friendly about it, but yet you are insulted...I sure hope I haven't rustled any tentacles...

I am not a diplomat nor a political adviser...I am just as entitled as you are to voice my opinion on the matter.



I'm satisfied to see we have a mutual understanding of how we feel about each others input.

Nothing is more important than the importance of nothing.

Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-04-08 11:32:40 UTC
Araynor Tassadore wrote:
I doubt the State could look past they're blood lust to simultaneously provide aid, and I think you may have misunderstood my comment...because I wasn't offering anything nor was I being friendly about it, but yet you are insulted...I sure hope I haven't rustled any tentacles...

I am not a diplomat nor a political adviser...I am just as entitled as you are to voice my opinion on the matter.



I'm satisfied to see we have a mutual understanding of how we feel about each others input.


Not a diplomat? This much is obvious. Neither am I. I'd like to think that I am at least civil, however. To that end, I shall refrain from using the ammunition you have so kindly supplied.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#94 - 2013-04-09 03:02:16 UTC
I'm a diplomat and I think you should shut the filthy hole under your nose.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#95 - 2013-04-09 12:41:09 UTC
Shiho Weitong wrote:
Your opinions are yours to hold and share as you see fit. This is the IGS afterall.

I would however like to hear your description of what being caldari means. I might have sounded more aggressive than my intention was. I never intended to claim that an outsider could not learn of our ways, and that they could never imagine what it might be like. But there is a long way from imagining a life to actually living it and i do not think that an outsider can truly comprehend what service to the state entails. I would however love to be proven wrong on this.

How Kim-haani has spoken and behaved matters not. Her status as a citizen of the state means that her superiors have deemed her actions laudable. I have heard of no CBT case against her or her corporation, nor have i seen orders from the CEP or anyone else that she is not to be considered a citizen.

This makes it completely undeniable that Kim-haani is indeed a true member of the state.


I would not mind telling you what my impressions on what being a State citizens means, but your continually arrogant position needs to be toned down. You insist that "What service to the State entails" is incomprehensible to a foreigner.

Your vaunted State do not have a monopoly on a sense of service, or duty, or patriotism, or even an appreciation for merit, yet you behave as if I have no right to speak because I "can't possibly understand" your ways.

As an aside, Diana Kim does not need the blessing of her superiors in the State to go on with what she is doing - she needs only maintain her capsuleer license. Capsuleers are protected by CONCORD in this regard and even a pirate that speaks against the State and murder it's citizens can be... 'forgiven' this and re-integrated into a State-serving Capsuleer group at the whim of that group. Diana Kim may not be a pirate as such, but the point remains - her position in the State is not up to her direct superiors to decide, and even if it was the State is not known to air it dirty laundry in public - why should they tell you if Diana Kim is an appreciated asset or not?

Now, to answer your question.

In the years I have been a capsuleer and from before that, my impression was that being a State citizen meant many things, but among the most important merits was loyalty to the State itself. This requires understanding of what the State is. This is a simplistic description that lacks much details and nuances, but it high-lights my points, I hope:

The State is a corporate alliance of sorts, between the eight Mega-corps that make it up. Citizens are all employees in one of these megas or their myriad subsidiaries and are expected to be loyal to and dedicated towards, the overall well-being of their corporation. Ultimately these corporations and the 'politically neutral' entities that service the State in general, such as the Navy, all answer to the Chief Executive Panel, a council of sorts between the eight mega-corporate CEO's who make State-wide decisions together and balance power between them. When the CEP makes a decision that decision is to be followed, and all the corporations are expected to obey, as are all the citizen-employees of said corporations.

In short, the idea is that the citizens - of any rank and position - back their corps as best they can, either by their honest work or if needed, stepping aside for a better person to have their job because that means it will be done better and thus the corporations and in general, the State, is better off. The corporations in turn serve their citizens by doing what is better for the overall picture and regulate and balance their understanding of "what is best for the State" in between themselves in the CEP.

Diana Kim on the other hand believes that what is best for the State is to follow the whims of a single man, never doubting or questioning that man, and serving blindly even as the man she serves proves again and again he is unfit for his position through a combination of poor decisions, violation of State laws, waning health, and other factors that essentially says one thing - he is unfit for office and by the meritocracy that the State believes in SHOULD and MUST be removed and replaced by a better candidate for the good of the State. She also holds that the office of Executor for the State - an office alien to the State to begin with - is the primary and ultimate source of power and leadership in the State, even if the CEP has held that position for the past two hundred years - the State's entire existence, minus the last five.

Simple and in short, *I believe* that if we are to define "what it means to be Caldari" with serving the traditions and ways of the State and it's leadership, then Diana Kim is *not* Caldari by definition. Again I am sure that her peers in the State has a fitting word to describe her, *Thus I would leave it for them to define her in spite of my voiced opinion.*

Personally I would call her demented. She is how old? At least twenty, by my estimates - and the CPD and Heth has been around for how long?

Five years. No one of us knew who Tibus Heth was ten years ago. Diana Kim seem to have forgotten how the State was run that long ago, what it's traditions and values are, what it's citizens believe, and how the political landscape looked like. Now today she serves the whims of a highly unmerited man and parrot his uncivilized hatred and illogical actions with her every breath. I can respect her apparent loyalty, but I wonder what happened to make her into this mockery of a Caldari to begin with, and I can't help but pity her existence, because Heth will be gone sooner or later, and then what will be left for her but to be a broken relic?

I have no pity, respect or mercy to give to any enemy of Humanity, but the State is an opposing Nation-State to my own. I can respect service to such a nation and it's people, for I endeavor to do the same.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#96 - 2013-04-09 14:20:57 UTC
Mr. Bloodbird;

Perhaps I can be of some assistance. You understand a great deal of our culture, and I'm pleased to hear the fact. However, there are some nuances that appear to be blocking your understanding. I'd like to help in what small measure I am capable of.

It is true that to be Caldari is to serve the people, to join in the common work that we all share. This is how Achurans, Matari, Gallois and others can be Caldari despite their birth. This said, there are many ways one can join in the work at hand, and this is the point that troubles you.

Roughly, there are two paths. The worker's path is to follow the leader despite any misgivings or trouble, to submit to heiian fully and without question. This is the most deeply honoured path taken, and also one of the safest, though a difficult path to take. This is Diana Kim's path, and she follows it well, and deserves all honours and praise for her efforts.

The second path is the leader's path. One need not actually be a leader to take this route. Instead, one must live alone, by their wits, testing and taking to try to find the best course of action for the people. This is Verin Hakatain's path, and should one take it well, one will find others following behind, helping in the work. These wayfinders live a dangerous life, for they flirt with treason and despair, but they deserve all honours and praise for their efforts.

My description is incomplete and meagre - I am sure my kirjuunen can provide better and more full description. But I hope that my contribution is helpful in some small way.
Alesius Lerance
Chrysos Aigis
#97 - 2013-04-09 14:30:20 UTC
As much as I would enjoy retaking the space around our homeworld and storming the Presidential bureau, we must accept the reality of the situation. This war is not moving toward any sort of conclusion and has achieved nearly nothing for both sides. At least with the Homeworld a DMZ we have chance of opening further dialogue with a view to maintaining our sovereignty there. We can't defeat the Gallente, and they can't defeat us. We don't have to be friends, but I feel the time for hostility is over.

Family, Corporation, and State, in that order. What else is there worth fighting for?

Crazy Captain Nemo
Nova Corps Marines
#98 - 2013-04-09 16:14:48 UTC
If I may make a small comment. I was raised on a small Ishukone colony right on the border of Lonetrek and Black Rise. Because of our proximity to Black Rise we had either the Gallente or the Caldari fleets coming through the system every few weeks telling us they were in control now and that we were their citizens. After a while we stopped caring, one army drinking in our bars and buying our goods was as good as the other. Our only true allegiance was to Ishukone. No matter what happened they kept us fed and away from the worst of the fighting. Wherever Ishukone sides on the conflict you'll find me there, my family is nothing if not loyal.

Beyond that and on to a point I haven't seen yet. The Caldari state is essentually a Confederation, and has been since its formation. Heth has defied that and turned it into a representative monarchy, yet he usually defies the CEP who is suppose to be he representative of the various megacorporations. In essence there are two governing styles at work currently within the Caldari State and whether any of us like it or not they will eventually chafe to the point where open conflict erupts and only one mode of governance stands.
Shiho Weitong
Yeet and Yoink Inc.
Heirs To The Pleasurehub
#99 - 2013-04-10 06:27:16 UTC
Scherezad wrote:

My description is incomplete and meagre.


Actually kirjuuni, you very eloquently described precisely what i was struggling to put into words.

The deference in all things to ones direct superior. The active choice of complete loyalty and devotion. The resignation of all ambition and submission to the Heiian.

I humbly thank you for your input suuolo.

Mr. Blackbird

Again it seems i have insulted you and for that i sincerely apologise. It is not my intention to be condescending, rather i am trying my best to approach you as an equal.

Your understanding of the state impresses me a great deal, I will admit. It brings you great honor that you know your neighbors. I will say however that i made no claim of monopoly on duty, patriotism or appreciation for merit. I just pointed out that the results of these ideals plays out a great deal differently when different people hold them. As such, what might be seen as duty for the Minmatar might be seen as heresy by the Amarr.

As it was so very well put, by Scherezad-haani, Kim-haani has chosen "the workers path". While this may seem foreign to you, this means that it is not Kim-haanis position, duty nor even privilege to question orders. She have submitted to meritorious leadership with the understanding that if it is not meritorious it will be changed. This duty lies with Kim-haanis superiors superior, all the way up to the CEP. If her direct superior orders her to follow Heth, this is what she will do and what she must do. Such is her path.

I feel though, that your view of the average citizen of the state is slightly skewed by the capsuleers that have come from the state. While the average citizen is indeed an ambitious person, this trait more than any other is evident in our capsuleers. By far the majority of the caldari citizens never leave their corporation. The average citizen would never vie for position against competent leadership. He would almost never question leadership outside their own corporation, and even in the case of their own corporation this is rather a rather rare occurence.

Very few capsuleers from the state actually retains permanent ties with their parent corporation, and does who do most often do so in a partnership agreement rather than being directly employed.
Those few who fully submit themselves to service even as capsuleers are very few and far between and they more than any amongst the stars deserve my respect.

When the time comes and the CEP legally removes Heth and his toadies, all the way down to Kim-haanis superior, I am confident she will she will serve her new superior with the same loyalty and dedication as she serves her current one.
She will do so, and she will do so unquestioningly, because that is how she has chosen to lead her life.

Your claims, however, that concord would somehow interfere with our navy if an enemy of the state should show up in Caldari sovereign space is either a blatant lie or a badly constructed sentence. I doubt from our communications so far that you would try to be dishonest in any way, so I will conclude that i do not understand the intended message. Would you clarify your position on this matter?

If i have inadvertently slighted you again I am very sorry. My etiquette might not be completely up to par for the IGS, as i mostly socialize with my students, and the very colorful people i call kirjuune, when i am sent to serve as a consultant.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-04-10 07:34:34 UTC
Alesius Lerance wrote:
As much as I would enjoy retaking the space around our homeworld and storming the Presidential bureau, we must accept the reality of the situation. This war is not moving toward any sort of conclusion and has achieved nearly nothing for both sides. At least with the Homeworld a DMZ we have chance of opening further dialogue with a view to maintaining our sovereignty there. We can't defeat the Gallente, and they can't defeat us. We don't have to be friends, but I feel the time for hostility is over.

Lerance-haan, we are here to represent our nation. We cannot give up and turn back. It is our duty to fight for those, who stays at home. It is our duty, to fight and to win. We cannot afford now to discard everything we achieved so far and start bargaining with animals. We must fulfill our duty or perish trying. Because our ancestors are watching us.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.