EVE General Discussion

Behold, the most ignorant post ever on the EvE Online forums.

Congratulations, you just reach max level on the clueless themeparker scale.

WTB dislike button.
Truly a stupid thread.

'omg, mmo is bad cos i have to play it multiplayer!!'
seriously dude, it's like complaining there's no multiplayer solitair...

Well ...
... a competitive multiplayer Solitair would be quite awesome.

Especially considering that my mother would be within the top 10 easily. xD

After nearly 4 years of playing I'm well aware that CCP allow you to exchange RL currency for PLEX and GTC, what you decide to do with the PLEX or GTC is up to you, it's not a direct exchange for Isk. The mechanism was implemented to curtail the activities of the "gold farmers" that are so prevalent in other MMOs, and to ensure that the money goes to CCP not some random "gold farmer", here's the thing, you don't have to use it to succeed, apart from vanity items everything is attainable through playing the game, unlike f2p games. I'm also well aware that CCP are a business, and that they're in business to make money, they're quite successful at it, and for a niche game developer in an oversaturated market they are doing very well.


Over thirty years of gaming gives me plenty of experience thank you very much, I cut my teeth on an Atari 2600 in the late 70's, progressed to writing my own games, and selling them at school, in the early 80's. I gamed my way through secondary school and college, flight sims, Elite, Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem, RCTW, AoE, RoN etc are all on my computer gaming résumé, tabletop gaming was also a major part of my youth. Call me a fanboy (god I hate that word and the boi spelling) all you like, my experience says otherwise. Speaking of which you appear to have a huge crush on WoW and Blizzard, you bring it up enough when complaining about Eve, look to yourself before making assumptions and accusations of fanboyism.


Actually yes, WoW was one of the other MMOs that I tried after the Incarna expansion, I found the gameplay bland, the PvE mind numbing and repetitive, the graphical presentation lacking, the PvP was mildly interesting but nowhere near the scope that I'm used to, a majority of the players struck me as immature. I have friends that played WoW when it was first released, they are of the opinion that it has been dumbed down so far that it is unrecognisable, so yeah EZ mode just about describes most of the gameplay that exists today.

With Eve you appear to be missing the point, you seem to be of the belief that anything that doesn't involve exploding another player is PvE. If you really want to give Eve an honest go, accept it for what it is, and not for what you think it is or should be.

The moment that you accept that Eve is a niche game, and that PvE is a secondary activity that is only there to fuel the PvP, is the moment that Eve becomes a fantastic experiment in human nature. It's not any other game, it's filling a niche, and it's doing it very successfully. As such it's not for everybody, which is the very definition of niche.

CCP don't need to make oodles of cash to succeed, they are experimenters that enjoy pushing the envelope, a prime example being the Dust and Eve shared universe. World of Darkness will be another niche game, another game aimed at an older generation of gamer, and I think it will do as well as Eve when it comes to fruition, I also expect many Eve players to give it a go when it hits beta, tabletop gaming is a very fond memory for a lot of people who play Eve, especially given the amount of subscribers aged over 30, and WoD will tap right into that market given the IP that it's based on.

TL;DR CCP don't need their products or development outlook to be mainstream to be successful. They've consistently proved it over the last decade, and from the looks of their vision of the future, they will continue to do so.

edit, had to snip some of the quotes, I ran out of characters, I'll give Ace Uoweme this though, he's managed to get myself and Frying Doom actually on the same page, that's about the height of anything he'll achieve in Eve with his particular brand of tinfoil and misconceptions

People who use apostrophes to pluralize words and people who say things like "would of".

No they don't, your proposals have absolutely no merit whatsoever, you're so misinformed you consider killing mission runners as PvE, let me put it simply for you.

When you click undock, you consent to having your ship violated, DON'T fly anything you can't afford to lose.

If you're not prepared for that, by virtue of your fitting or attitude then that's your problem, not the problem of the person who kills you. I run missions on a regular basis in both low and highsec on this character, do you know how many times I've been killed by another player while doing so? Zero, zilch, nada, because I'm prepared for it, I scout, I know the aggro mechanics with regards to ninja looting and what happens if I shoot at them (highsec only), I never run a solely rat specific tank, I pack different damage types, sometimes I mission in a PvP fit (bad idea if you don't know what you're doing), I have safespots bookmarked, I watch local, I use the Dscan tool, I have certain groups set to poor standings, in lowsec I never warp directly to a gate.
Situational awareness is king in Eve, ignore it at your own expense. I learnt most of these lessons on another character while living in a wormhole, where local is not the intel tool it is elsewhere.

If by chance I eventually get caught by a PvP gang or player, I know that I'm going to die, with luck I may take one with me, but they'll get a GF and maybe a "how do I avoid that happening next time?" in local or by PM from me while they violate my wreck and corpse, because they put time and effort into actually finding me, and because I'm always willing to learn new things from people who specialise in hunting folk like me.

TL;DR of the OP.

"QQ dirty blobbers"

@Ace Uoweme

I have no problem with CCP trying to attract a larger audience, what I do have a problem with is losing what Eve already has in the way of an open PvP environment to do so, and many existing players will probably agree with me, yes it's the status quo, but without the players that have given Eve the reputation it has, CCP would not have the game they have right now, and they know it.

Dust is already an inroad into expanding their horizons, personally I hope it succeeds beyond their wildest dreams. WoD will also tap into a market that CCP currently have no inroads into, I hope that succeeds to the same extent. CCP don't have to cater to the mainstream with Eve to be successful, they've proved it over the last decade, and will hopefully continue to do so.

Bear in mind that CCPs founders are ex Ultima Online PKers, their dream is an environment where surprise buttsekhs is commonplace, especially post Trammel. The single shard concept won't allow them to A: match WoWs sub figures, and B: have a safe haven for those who don't want to PvP. If they compromise on their core selling point and their original dream to cater for the masses, it wouldn't be Eve, and it wouldn't be worthy of the name.

The difference between Eve and WoW is that Blizzard charge for expansions, you want the new content, give them the money, CCP make that content available to everybody, no extra cost involved. At the moment they are on a cycle of fixing stuff that has been broken for years, POSs are one of them, the next expansion is probably (not guaranteed but they're trying to squeeze it in) going to see the first round of reiteration on them, the ship balancing is going well. They are trying to make the existing content work properly before going on to produce new content.

The last time CCP tried to introduce more mainstream ideas into the game (see the Incarna expansion and the resulting virtual riots) they managed to infuriate a large percentage of players, resulting in one of the most amazing player driven events I have seen in all my years of gaming. They're still recovering from that mess nearly 2 years later, they lost a lot of subs (at least 10% by their numbers, probably closer to 20% tbh), and good faith with their casual dismissal of our concerns, they recognised that they had made a massive miscalculation and apologised for it, that event is now a firm part of Eves lore, and I don't think they'll ever forget what happens when you infuriate and ignore players to that extent. CCP recognise that we, the players, are what drives their game, I hope that they don't want to change that.

They can remain niche and appeal to a wider audience at the same time. If they want to attract the casual players from other games, they can do it without ruining Eve as a hardcore FFA PvP game, for example they could produce another title that takes concepts from Eve but that is more mainstream. Sony Online Entertainment are already working with concepts that they've picked up from CCP via Dust and Eve in Planetside 2, their CEO is an Eve player, and a nullsec alliance one at that. I can certainly see a future where both CCP and SOE team up to produce a more mainstream MMO that is similar in scope to Eve but without the brutality. There's no real need to change a successful formula and an already existing game, when they have contacts such as SOE that would allow them to do so much more.

CCP are known for pushing the envelope, both with gameplay possibilities and technology, the tessellation showcase is awe inspiring, and that technology will probably appear when the Windows XP diehards upgrade and we get DX11 . The character creator and the carbon framework are the best things to come out of Incarna, at the time the character creator was mind blowing, nobody, even the huge software houses had come even close to what CCP did there.

If CCP changed Eve to cater for the common or garden MMO market, the existing players would A: do their utmost to make sure that they don't succeed, and B: poison the gaming press against CCP. The gaming press like Eve, they love the stories, they like that all the scams, espionage, general acts of asshattery are possible, and that they aren't taking place in the games that most people play.

I ask you this question, where would you rather all the "griefers", "asshats", "conmen" and "belligerent undesirables" were, in one place? or in the MMOs that your teenage child is playing?

Eve is primarily a game for adults, usually ones that are bored with what everybody else is offering, please don't try and change it into just another game, we love it for what it is, and for the chances it gives us to explore things like economics, man management, and the dark side of human nature.

I do believe that you've quoted the wrong post, Andy Landen is all in favour of nerfing PvP against mission runners from what I can gather. Also non consensual PvP can be classed as Piracy, ever met an honest pirate?

Not only have you made yourself look like a fool with no reading comprehension, you've managed to introduce an oxymoron into your foolishness. Please insert another coin and try again.

Yes I'm being a condescending male genitalia, you labeled me as such earlier in the thread, so I'll pander to your accusation just for giggles.

You represent everything wrong with the "carebear" mentality. I live in highsec and will do until my personal circumstances change and I can play regularly again, but I have always treated Eve like it is: a game about TEAMWORK.

Regardless of what you think or how you play, Eve is about large groups of players working together. Yes, solo play is there (I do it all the time), but the Multi in Massively Multi Player is there for a reason. However allow me to deconstruct your post from the point of view of a solo but gameplay balanced player.

1: Cyno's. You say that they are used to gang up on single players. They allow instant movement of Super caps. Well yeah... that's kind of the point. They exist to allow those ships with jump drives to.... well, jump. Now while hotdropping solo players does happen, that's because this game is a sandbox. The moment you restrict something like hotdropping you take away the sandbox element that attracted you to Eve in the first place.

2: Stealth. Stealth Bombers aren't untouchable, you just need to know what you are doing to catch them. In the end its all about pilot skill, and the pilot who is better wins.

3: Bumping. A solo player can bump as easily as a gang. Just ask all of the miners who have been bumped by the New Order. I don't see why you think this is a problem unless you are AFK mining or doing stupid undock games on a station.

4: HS Wars. They pay for that privilege. The corp I'm in now has been under a constant wardec since I joined it, and it really hasn't made an impact on my gameplay. But then again I have other people around me fighting as well. If you are getting caught solo, maybe you shouldn't be out solo? If you don't like it drop corp and go to an NPC one to stop it from affecting you.

5: Blind Gates. I've never seen a complaint like this on EVE-O before. Thanks for that, but there are still a bunch of ways you can get around them. Fit a cloak and do the MWD trick (which you can Google), or get an alt to scout in a shuttle or something.

6: POS's. Make a corp, grind standings, get POS, profit... I am in a corp and I run my own POS totally seperate to them, so I have no Idea what you are talking about. The effort required is there to stop everyone and his dog having a POS

7: Titans and Supers: You know I agree that certain aspects of Capital ships need a change. But these are the biggest, baddest ships in Eve. If they jumped in and did no more damage than a Battleship, then we would never see them. DD's have been nerfed to a point where they no longer resemble the massive AOE they once were (I was sad about that, but then again I never felt it. The single target subcap DD I felt though and the nerf to that was a good thing. Complaining about capital ships is pointless. They are supposed to be powerful.

Also it makes me sad that for a player who has been playing almost as long me (not my first character this one, but for all intents my main) hasn't grasped the concept of Eve being a Sandbox...