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Okay, you want to keep going with this? Did you read the Dev Blog? Here's another item from there that helps everyone: Moving items between ships/hangars/etc. inside the forcefield without being within 2500m. How about another: Refitting Tech 3 Strategic Cruisers. Oh my, two improvements! And here you only required one, I gave you one, then you said sure, but how about another? I shall one-up you, sir, and give you two for your one. :) Do you wish to continue this game?

Your argument: Debunked yet again.

Sure, there are still bugs, no one is arguing against that, nor are we arguing against having a POS revamp. What we are saying is that we appreciate that there is work being done for the short-term while they continue to design and figure out the long-term fixes.

While a complete re-work of the PoS operations facet has been long in coming it bothers me that CCP are again trying to tinker with the original code rather than work a full system from scratch as we have seen from past iterations that this only leads to problems as they never really fully test them in situ, we saw the mess that there new 'Tree' system brought for PoS operators and the time it took to sort that one out into the workable brew of work around's it is today.

The ability to name silos and other items was a good thing, but they still did not allow you to sort and group the inventory listing, it still remains a randomized mess.

Operating the tower from anywhere inside the force-field sounds like a good idea when first mooted but is it not the case that CCP indicated that they wished to remove them in past dev blogs, has this idea now been scrapped.

And how does this revamp map into that of modular PoS constructs once indicated, it would appear that CCP is dipping into old code in an attempt to make something out of it that is never really going to work properly and be even more difficult to change in the future.

Having said that my main concern would be that of personal hangar space, this presents a serious problem to Corp operations should they wish to remove the tower at a later date, all items being lost once the construct was dismantled, bit of a nightmare in the making there, will the storage repackage with items inside or will it remain stuck and prevent the tower being un-achored, worst case, hoards of orphaned storage hangars at moons preventing anchoring of new towers unless you rock up with a fleet and blow up the remains of the old ones, stretching things I know but you can see the obvious problems it might trawl up later unless thought through.

Best of luck with this one but we have already shelved long term PoS plans until we see what sort of a monster this one throws at us.

So what gets me, is that CCP says it's difficult to change the outdated POS code. I understand the difficulty of changing operational code, and adding functionality without breaking what it still needs to do.

So my thought is.. why bother.. Add a new set of code for new POS's, and just like when they changed the fuel, allow the two types of POS to co-exist for a short period to allow people to transition. "But what about all my old pos mods" I hear you say, well that's easy too. CCP provides a supply of seeded, free, "conversion" blueprints. You haul your control tower, corp hangar, sentry gun, whatever it is, to a manufacturing facility, run it through the conversion BP, and what comes out of the other end is the new equivalent of whatever the module is (this may take a combination of mods, depending on the new feature, but would be easier than building the new mod from scratch, and would not lose your original investment).. Then on D-Day (when they switch off the old code), any unconverted mods would still be in game and could be unanchored, but would not be operational until converted. All POS blueprints would automatically be converted at the same time (like they did with probes).

Since POS's affect everyone in game, whether it's because you fly a T2 ship which is manufactured from Moon goo, or you need somewhere to hide when you siege your rorqual, I believe POS's are one of the critical game mechanics, and their overhaul is way overdue.

Just me 2c worth...

Z

^^ This.

It wouldn't suprise me at all to know that these "seemingly" small changes are simply CCP's way of digging into the old code to really start to figure out how it works while not breaking anything "big" and giving us a carrot at the same time.

I'm looking forward to these updates -- even if it's small ... it's better than we've had for a looooong time with POSs.

I've been playing this game for 3+ years now and I'm STILL not used to this. I played WoW for a long time and it seemed like in that game (as in so many others) everytime they'd come out and say "we're changing so and so" the general response was usually "OMG WTF? THIS IS BULL***T THEY'RE NERFING US AGAIN!!

Much more often than not though in EVE, as is the case with this devblog I just kind of read each item and go "oh sweet!!!"

I live in WH's so I've had some frustrations with POS's and it's nice seeing some items that I've specifically been annoyed with being addressed in here. It sucks when you're trying to quickly switch ships to go jump into a PvP engagement and you have to slowboat over to your damn hangar so you can get the ship you want. Wait what? I don't have to do that anymore? Nice!

Then its a pain in the ass trying to set up guns and ECM mods on your POS because you have to zoom out really far (unless you're a dumbass and actually fly outside the shields to install the things..."hi look at me, I'm a defenseless hauler come shoot my ass!) and that green box gets so teeny tiny that it becomes impossible to do anything with it. What's that? You're making the little boxes scale up when you zoom out??? Awesome!

And then of course there are the POS's that have 15 SMA's because of all the guys who own half a dozen capital ships a piece and need a hangar for each one. Hold on...you're saying we can have CSMA's in our POS's now? Haawww dilly!!!

I could go on, but you get the point ;) Well done CCP!

What is being referred to is this:

I have a container with 500 items in it. My hangar array already has 700 items in it. Knowing that I have a 1000 item limit, if I'm allowed to repackage the container, all of the items will end up in the hangar, which now is at 1200 items, thus, overflowing the array.

The same goes for ships. Repackage a ship, where do the modules go? Into your local hangar.

A proper implementation of this should be:
a) Do I have enough room in the hangar / array for the items & modules in the ship / container?

If yes:
b) Repackage container / ship, modules & items to into the hangar

if no:
c) Do not allow the container / ship to be repackaged.

"Corp directors have the ability to see what members have items in the hangar, but do not have the ability to take or place items from/in the hangars."

"If a member leaves the corp, his or her items are left in the structure but cannot be accessed unless the player rejoins."

I hate to talk negatively about CCP developers but this just seems like either laziness or incompetence.

Corp theft is a legitimate part of eve gameplay and this change effectively removes it... Unless, the number of players per personal hanger is limited and the fitting requirements are so high that the use of only one or two of this structures is feasible, effectively forcing multi-user pos' to use a corp hanger... but then we are back to square one.

The second quote is just dumb and further highlights the need for directors and CEO's to have access to personal hangers.

In short; do a proper job.

Update on our current progress:

The Private Hangars have a usable version completed, with the key functionality working. Work is remaining on peripheral issues so the structure is not yet in a shippable state but a lot of progress has been made.

Taking your feedback so far into account, the Private Hangar currently has a storage size of 50,000 m3 per character, slightly larger than had been discussed before. We are interested in your opinions about that change.

Repackaging modules in Starbase arrays is done and shippable.

Accessing modules everywhere in the shield is done and working for inventory look, give and take actions.

The CSMA anchoring change is completed and the structure has been renamed to "Extra Large Ship Maintenance Array" for clarity.

As usual your feedback is welcomed.

Awesome, thanks for the update!

Is there any chance of a rebalance of manufactering plants on a pos? - It does not make much sense to have a 1.1 multiplier on making tech 2 stuff, ect.

Feedback: this structure should be named 'Super-Duper-Large Ship Maintenance Array' instead.