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Three high sec Incursions ALL in Amarr space, time to change the spawn mechanic?
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sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-07 15:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Goldiiee wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
All of this can be solved via slight mechanic changes on CCP's end.

When mom goes down, spawn a new incursion somewhere else immediately instead of at DT.

When a site goes down, spawn another one of the same type, not a NCN/TPPH. New NCN/TPPN only spawns if a previous NCN/TPPN goes down.

Don't blame the player, blame the game.

I think your trolling but I am bored so I’ll bite:

New instant spawn? Can you hear the inhale from the Explorers, it will followed by screams of ‘Why Don’t Our Sites Re-spawn like Incursions WHAA WHAA’

Random site spawns keep the fleets from running overly specialized fits, and forcing the change to different sites makes for a more, well rounded group, thereby rewarding the groups that can adapt.


1. DT spawns have already been replaced by nonDT spawns for exploration. And your "A must remain broken because B is broken" idea makes no sense, especially since B has already been fixed in a similar manner.

2. Groups have proven to be unwilling to adapt, and these that try aren't rewarded. That's the whole reason we have the problem in the first place. Tried and failed concept. Don't latch on to it. Abandon it.
chris1945
Ambivalence Co-operative
#22 - 2013-04-07 16:03:39 UTC
What? NCN walls are created by the players? Really? Holly Gizmo.

Why have they already fixed the OTA walls then in VG systems? Really, just don't say anything if you don't know anything about incursions...

Not many communities run AS sites at all due to the NCN walls and the reship problem. And even if you reship, they take longer.

TPPH is also a problem. But not as big as the NCN problem if you ask me.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#23 - 2013-04-07 16:05:24 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
1. DT spawns have already been replaced by nonDT spawns for exploration. And your "A must remain broken because B is broken" idea makes no sense, especially since B has already been fixed in a similar manner.

2. Groups have proven to be unwilling to adapt, and these that try aren't rewarded. That's the whole reason we have the problem in the first place. Tried and failed concept. Don't latch on to it. Abandon it.

We fly all the sites without fail doing the fastest first and then the slow one last, fleets don't stop because the sites are too hard, fleets just don't stop at all till we run out of people to fly.

And if they re-spawned instantly the only reward we would get is a 20j trip every 6 hours when petulant child A decides to pull petulant child B's hair, instant re-spawn is rewarding **** poor behaviour.

And when dealing with this level of children, some child psychology is needed.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jack Earthfire
Everse Defense Initiative
#24 - 2013-04-07 16:11:47 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
2. Groups have proven to be unwilling to adapt, and these that try aren't rewarded. That's the whole reason we have the problem in the first place. Tried and failed concept. Don't latch on to it. Abandon it.


Concept of CCP is: The Universe is yours. Take it. My personally result of that: WORK AS INTENDED.
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#25 - 2013-04-07 16:15:37 UTC
suggested changes on the mom sites in incursions:

- enhance the Duration: 60 Minutes
- required pilots Minimum: 150

with these little changes every mom site will lose the "drive-by-shoot-feeling" and only a few communitys were able to end an incursion by killing the mom.

Problems solved.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-04-07 16:20:15 UTC
Jack Earthfire wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
2. Groups have proven to be unwilling to adapt, and these that try aren't rewarded. That's the whole reason we have the problem in the first place. Tried and failed concept. Don't latch on to it. Abandon it.


Concept of CCP is: The Universe is yours. Take it. My personally result of that: WORK AS INTENDED.


Why don't we remove all rats and roids from Eve and see how well that works? But wait, it wouldn't, because that's bad game mechanic. Your advertising punchline has no bearing in proper game design.

Goldiiee wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
1. DT spawns have already been replaced by nonDT spawns for exploration. And your "A must remain broken because B is broken" idea makes no sense, especially since B has already been fixed in a similar manner.

2. Groups have proven to be unwilling to adapt, and these that try aren't rewarded. That's the whole reason we have the problem in the first place. Tried and failed concept. Don't latch on to it. Abandon it.

We fly all the sites without fail doing the fastest first and then the slow one last, fleets don't stop because the sites are too hard, fleets just don't stop at all till we run out of people to fly.

And if they re-spawned instantly the only reward we would get is a 20j trip every 6 hours when petulant child A decides to pull petulant child B's hair, instant re-spawn is rewarding **** poor behaviour.

And when dealing with this level of children, some child psychology is needed.


Your solution is: If ppl just be nice we'll have world peace? Human nature is what it is, it won't change. The beauty is, game mechanics can be perfected to make a better game. It is still a game, remember?
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#27 - 2013-04-07 16:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Charadrass wrote:
suggested changes on the mom sites in incursions:

- enhance the Duration: 60 Minutes
- required pilots Minimum: 150

with these little changes every mom site will lose the "drive-by-shoot-feeling" and only a few communities were able to end an incursion by killing the mom.

Problems solved.

The problem has nothing to do with the MOM site, it has to do with impulse control, when my kid would break her toy cause she was frustrated, I didn't get her a new tougher toy. I stopped letting her break the ones she had.Roll

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#28 - 2013-04-07 16:24:36 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Your solution is: If ppl just be nice we'll have world peace? Human nature is what it is, it won't change. The beauty is, game mechanics can be perfected to make a better game. It is still a game, remember?

Yeah sure Kumbaya. LOL

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#29 - 2013-04-07 16:39:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Petra Hakaari
sabre906 wrote:
When a site goes down, spawn another one of the same type, not a NCN/TPPH. New NCN/TPPN only spawns if a previous NCN/TPPN goes down.




Have you at least thought about that before you spat it out? XD



Here, let me get my crystal gandalf ball and tell you what is going to happen:



Say that in an HQ solar system there are 9 sites at all times, 3 tcrcs, 3nrfs and 3 tpphs, and 4 hq fleets.


This means that, at the end, there are only 3 sites being done: tcrcs, by these 4 fleets, which means that there will ALWAYS be contests at all times, which means, MOAR DRAMA.

Because tities .
Jack Earthfire
Everse Defense Initiative
#30 - 2013-04-07 16:47:40 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
The problem has nothing to do with the MOM site, it has to do with impulse control, when my kid would break her toy cause she was frustrated, I didn't get her a new tougher toy. I stopped letting her break the ones she had.Roll


ISN and DIN proved how to take each other on another nonsense level and both parties have become exceedingly efficient at it. Were done with that. ISN based upon ultimate POWAAA and efficiency using others (tbh a genius but unfair idea) to increase their Payout and DIN based upon the Idea of welcome new and unexperienced Pilots to bring them into Incursions. Of course do we of DIN know that ISN hungers for more efficiency and more iskies, but that is not the way DIN wants to go. ISN showed often enough that they can bring up impressive enhancements to their tactics and strategies... but were out of this special Drama related to Contests and draw here the line to say enough is enough. Sorry that we once again took an ISN idea for our own purposes: No ISK for us - No ISK for anyone.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#31 - 2013-04-07 17:00:15 UTC
Jack Earthfire wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
The problem has nothing to do with the MOM site, it has to do with impulse control, when my kid would break her toy cause she was frustrated, I didn't get her a new tougher toy. I stopped letting her break the ones she had.Roll


ISN and DIN proved how to take each other on another nonsense level and both parties have become exceedingly efficient at it. Were done with that. ISN based upon ultimate POWAAA and efficiency using others (tbh a genius but unfair idea) to increase their Payout and DIN based upon the Idea of welcome new and unexperienced Pilots to bring them into Incursions. Of course do we of DIN know that ISN hungers for more efficiency and more iskies, but that is not the way DIN wants to go. ISN showed often enough that they can bring up impressive enhancements to their tactics and strategies... but were out of this special Drama related to Contests and draw here the line to say enough is enough. Sorry that we once again took an ISN idea for our own purposes: No ISK for us - No ISK for anyone.

No you got me wrong, I applaud you. It has taken several months to get to the point that your hated more than ISN. The tactic is sound, I still wonder at why DIN cried foul so loud when we did it, but it could just be situational,, perspective.

If this is what it takes to make Incursions work for you then all I am wondering is? How long do you plan on being able to support a community of Incursion pilots without Incursions?

'You can't win HQ's so go do assaults, cause we will contest you out of VG's too', those were DIN's words 'paraphrased' Love this change, true colours are rarely exposed so well. Roll

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jack Earthfire
Everse Defense Initiative
#32 - 2013-04-07 17:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Earthfire
Goldiiee wrote:
If this is what it takes to make Incursions work for you then all I am wondering is? How long do you plan on being able to support a community of Incursion pilots without Incursions?


Our Wise Guys calculated with 4-6 weeks and we're up to go further. Time to get a subscription for Popcorn and Cola, heh? Cool
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#33 - 2013-04-07 17:08:05 UTC
oooh man, im looking so forward for the next Open Tournament ... XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Because tities .
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-04-07 20:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Goldiiee wrote:
Charadrass wrote:
suggested changes on the mom sites in incursions:

- enhance the Duration: 60 Minutes
- required pilots Minimum: 150

with these little changes every mom site will lose the "drive-by-shoot-feeling" and only a few communities were able to end an incursion by killing the mom.

Problems solved.

The problem has nothing to do with the MOM site, it has to do with impulse control, when my kid would break her toy cause she was frustrated, I didn't get her a new tougher toy. I stopped letting her break the ones she had.Roll


You're going to try to change ppl's behavior when a simple game mechanic change will fix it? Good luck with that.Roll

If everyone just be nice, we'll have world peace, right?Lol
Malkandria
WhatMeWorry
#35 - 2013-04-08 01:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Malkandria
The people complaining about spawn time... and sites re spawning as soon as a mom pops... remember the mom drops expensive loot mostly a bpc of a pirate faction ship in highsec, bpc of a pirate faction cap ship in low/nul, ccp can not let these drop more often, it would be counter productive to maintaining a fair market system.

As far as kundalini sites showing up, in my opinion once the bar goes blue an approximately 24 hour timer counts down to the mom site spawn, and the mom site should be made very hard at the start with a degradation of the hardness based on either time or sites completed, after the mom site has been up for xx hours/days the mom begins her stand down, this would make the incursions last for a while longer without increasing the frequency of their spawn. possibly even making the spawn rate drop due to incursions lasting longer, which would benefit the market, as supply and demand would favor supply with less bpc's on the market. Also longer incursions mean more player owned ships popping, creating another demand that supply would benifit from with higher prices.

Just my 2 cents take it or leave it.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-04-08 02:23:06 UTC
Malkandria wrote:
The people complaining about spawn time... and sites re spawning as soon as a mom pops... remember the mom drops expensive loot mostly a bpc of a pirate faction ship in highsec, bpc of a pirate faction cap ship in low/nul, ccp can not let these drop more often, it would be counter productive to maintaining a fair market system.

As far as kundalini sites showing up, in my opinion once the bar goes blue an approximately 24 hour timer counts down to the mom site spawn, and the mom site should be made very hard at the start with a degradation of the hardness based on either time or sites completed, after the mom site has been up for xx hours/days the mom begins her stand down, this would make the incursions last for a while longer without increasing the frequency of their spawn. possibly even making the spawn rate drop due to incursions lasting longer, which would benefit the market, as supply and demand would favor supply with less bpc's on the market. Also longer incursions mean more player owned ships popping, creating another demand that supply would benifit from with higher prices.

Just my 2 cents take it or leave it.


The crappy carrier (look it up, you'll wonder why ppl would fly that dung ship) don't drop in highsec. Pirate frig bpcs drop in highsec. And it's nowhere near the value of isk payouts, or LP isk sinks, btw.
Jack Earthfire
Everse Defense Initiative
#37 - 2013-04-08 10:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Earthfire
Malkandria wrote:
As far as kundalini sites showing up, in my opinion once the bar goes blue an approximately 24 hour timer counts down to the mom site spawn, and the mom site should be made very hard at the start with a degradation of the hardness based on either time or sites completed, after the mom site has been up for xx hours/days the mom begins her stand down, this would make the incursions last for a while longer without increasing the frequency of their spawn. possibly even making the spawn rate drop due to incursions lasting longer, which would benefit the market, as supply and demand would favor supply with less bpc's on the market. Also longer incursions mean more player owned ships popping, creating another demand that supply would benifit from with higher prices.


I like this idea... and if you would name the timer "Sansha Reinforcements in:" or like that you would stay in the Storyline of Incursions. More than that would i like to see that the 'The Kundalini Manifest' -Site rebalanced for 120 Pilots - min 80, max 160 to get a Payout... in my opinion is this Site one of the royal events and the Hi-End of PvE in EVE and for that, its just ridiculously easy.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#38 - 2013-04-08 10:49:40 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
The crappy carrier (look it up, you'll wonder why ppl would fly that dung ship) don't drop in highsec. Pirate frig bpcs drop in highsec. And it's nowhere near the value of isk payouts, or LP isk sinks, btw.

Just to be more precise Sabre; Nightmares, Phantasm, Incursus, and Shadow Bomber BPC's drop in high sec.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jack Earthfire
Everse Defense Initiative
#39 - 2013-04-08 11:50:57 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Just to be more precise Sabre; Nightmares, Phantasm, Incursus, and Shadow Bomber BPC's drop in high sec.


Succubus. Sorry, couldn't hold myself back on this. Roll
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#40 - 2013-04-08 18:15:42 UTC
Modifying the constellation requirements slightly would potentially yield a massive increase in the number of constellations available for incursions to spawn in, especially if implemented as multiple faction incursions each with slightly different constellation requirements.

Also, more incursions means more reason to have multiple kinds of faction carrier and thus increases the priority of a re-balance on such ships to pull them into line with the existing carriers.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
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