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New Bounty System .-. Success or Failure
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Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#41 - 2013-04-07 04:08:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:

If you want earn cash by avenging poor hapless gank victims, you activate their killrights and take the bounty as your payment. If you just want to kill people for the bounty, you just do the maths whether attacking them will be worth it or not.

Yes i'd agree, this is the only advantage for those looking to gain revenge on gankers. But from what i've heard its done little to effect gankers abilities to go about their business. And its easy enough to clear your killright by simply losing a cheapy ship. Plus some of them want people to activate their killrights, as a means to get them into combat. I'd say the benifits definately fall into the hands of the pirates.

Tippia wrote:

Quote:
In my opinion, bounties should only be possible on those that are clearly unwilling to follow the laws of the empires.
That doesn't make much sense. Bounties have nothing to do with the empires (which explains why they also don't have anything to do with the legality of attacking people). They are simply a price on someone's head — a deal between players. Criminals can put a price on someone's head just as well as law-abiding citizens.

Highsec is clearly the main place where bounties are having an effect. Lowsec and null is generally shoot first and don't bother asking questions. Bounties there just boil down to additional isk payouts for kills. Highsec is where it has the most influence, via the killrights and the additional benifits it brings to gankers. I imagined people specializing as bounty hunters, tracking down and killing specific targets. But as it stands, with everyone being bountied to some degree, it seems to benefit the pirates of EvE, simply giving them additional cash for what they've been doing since before the changes.

I'd be interested to hear opinions from gankers, towards this topic. Specifically regarding if they feel it has helped or hindered their profession.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#42 - 2013-04-07 04:21:28 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Andrea Griffin wrote:
Try moving a few jumps away from the big trade hubs and newbie systems. I fly through dozens of systems on a regular basis that are full of rocks every single time.


Flying in 0.4 doesn't count, as even the nullbears bypass it.

By noon, the rocks are gone. Usually with cans with a 0.0 alliance name stamped on them filled to the brim...



Fly out of Caldari space and you will find that most places don't get stripped. I used to mine out of hibi - a nice .5 hole which is 6 jumps from Amarr. I think in the enitre time I stayed there it was mined out once - because my alliance mined it out. Twice in the time I was there a belt had been cleaned. There are maybe 5 miners in local, one guy who belt hops with a cynnabal to clean out the rats and there was at least one friendly orca that I met there when nobody else from my alliance was there.

Finally I live in NZ, my peak play time is about 5 hours before downtime, if there were no rocks after noon as you imply I would be SOL if I wanted to mine. However, as I typed, Hibi was mostly full every time I went in there.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-04-07 05:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Super spikinator wrote:
Fly out of Caldari space and you will find that most places don't get stripped.


Ah, many places are stripped there, and by noon. Shocked

One of my favorite spots (when we had to wait days for respawns but the roids were HUGE in comparison), used to take 10 or so miners 6hrs to clear one belt (used to place cans all around just one huge one to mine it), and this is with Hulks then (which isn't seen anymore no thanks to the Goonies). Six hours all the Retrievers now can clear out that system (10k roids pop sooooo quick).

Super spikinator wrote:
Finally I live in NZ, my peak play time is about 5 hours before downtime, if there were no rocks after noon as you imply I would be SOL if I wanted to mine. However, as I typed, Hibi was mostly full every time I went in there.


0.5.

They're not mining full force until after restart. Which again means, by noon the roids are gone. And what you're saying matches what I'm seeing in both Amarr and Caldari zones, in when miners come out to mine (heck of a lot of Russians out there then).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-04-07 06:02:54 UTC
Fairren wrote:
How exactly are accounts of different players going to be linked?


What?

How would different players be related to how Battle.net links accounts (and for the point of addressing an issue in how to address the bounty payout exploits)?

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-04-07 06:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
nomad Raholan wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Success. It does what it's supposed to do without causing any unwanted side-effects.

No unwanted side-effects?? Sorry but after reading the responses I have to disagree with that..

Unwanted side-effect, miners being bountied and killed legally simply because they can be. ..


What? How are miners being "killed legally"? Bounty has no effect on killrights, miners or not, in case you have been living under a rock and didn't know.

The new bounty system is much better than before. Activated killrights propably aren't working much at all, but it was a nice idea.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Polaris Sagan
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-04-07 06:35:30 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Super spikinator wrote:
Fly out of Caldari space and you will find that most places don't get stripped.


Ah, many places are stripped there, and by noon. Shocked

One of my favorite spots (when we had to wait days for respawns but the roids were HUGE in comparison), used to take 10 or so miners 6hrs to clear one belt (used to place cans all around just one huge one to mine it), and this is with Hulks then (which isn't seen anymore no thanks to the Goonies). Six hours all the Retrievers now can clear out that system (10k roids pop sooooo quick).

Super spikinator wrote:
Finally I live in NZ, my peak play time is about 5 hours before downtime, if there were no rocks after noon as you imply I would be SOL if I wanted to mine. However, as I typed, Hibi was mostly full every time I went in there.


0.5.

They're not mining full force until after restart. Which again means, by noon the roids are gone. And what you're saying matches what I'm seeing in both Amarr and Caldari zones, in when miners come out to mine (heck of a lot of Russians out there then).


I mine regularly in Caldari Hisec around the Lonetrek Region. Due to work I dont get on till around 9pm UK tim (long after downtime). So I have no idea where you are getting your details from because I've never had trouble finding spots.

As for the OP

I think that the whole bounty system could have been a lot worse. It's not great, bit they will tweak it from what I've gathered from looking at the Dev blogs about the bounty system.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#47 - 2013-04-07 08:24:20 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'm sure no players would ever exploit that system by putting alts in to the "police" and using them to claim bounties put on their mains. Roll


Then don't allow them to do so.

One the major problems in EvE is they don't have the Battle.net system, where accounts are linked.

So instead of being so negative, think of SOLUTIONS.

How are you to be a CSM is you're not even trying to be innovative and original???


That's a lot of admin

How do you deal with alt accounts funded by PLEX and registered to a different email

What if one small group of players joined these "police" and then offered a bounty cleaning service.

You're right to accuse me of not being very imaginative, but it doesn't usually take a whole lot of imagination to detect gaping flaws in these "people aren't playing the way I want them to" or the "the game doesn't give me as much candy as I think I deserve" proposals.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#48 - 2013-04-07 08:48:35 UTC
Just because something is an improvement over an old system doesn't make it good.

It is not hard to better the old system but this whilst is an improvement, is still not "good".

There is too much Suspect blobbing going on and also too many constraints on when I can "bounty hunt" in empire.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2013-04-07 09:21:09 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:

Highsec is clearly the main place where bounties are having an effect. Lowsec and null is generally shoot first and don't bother asking questions. Bounties there just boil down to additional isk payouts for kills. Highsec is where it has the most influence, via the killrights and the additional benifits it brings to gankers. I imagined people specializing as bounty hunters, tracking down and killing specific targets. But as it stands, with everyone being bountied to some degree, it seems to benefit the pirates of EvE, simply giving them additional cash for what they've been doing since before the changes.

I'd be interested to hear opinions from gankers, towards this topic. Specifically regarding if they feel it has helped or hindered their profession.


http://themittani.com/features/revisiting-bounty-hunting

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#50 - 2013-04-07 09:26:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:

Highsec is clearly the main place where bounties are having an effect. Lowsec and null is generally shoot first and don't bother asking questions. Bounties there just boil down to additional isk payouts for kills. Highsec is where it has the most influence, via the killrights and the additional benifits it brings to gankers. I imagined people specializing as bounty hunters, tracking down and killing specific targets. But as it stands, with everyone being bountied to some degree, it seems to benefit the pirates of EvE, simply giving them additional cash for what they've been doing since before the changes.

I'd be interested to hear opinions from gankers, towards this topic. Specifically regarding if they feel it has helped or hindered their profession.


http://themittani.com/features/revisiting-bounty-hunting



. How do you find your bounty targets? Do you use locator agents or just hang out in their home turf?

I hunt in nullsec. I pick marks by alliance, by region, by pocket and do a bit of research before roaming areas. I pick pockets based on what shiptypes they are using to rat and seek the highest value targets available. However, I do not camp or setup logoff traps. I roam pocket to pocket.



That says all I need to hear, Bounty hunting is dead on arrival for Empire and is just another Blob mechanic for suspects.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-04-07 10:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Don't really worry about it. Like some other parts of the game, it will be theory-crafted to death and then some happy, and utterly boring, medium will be found.

I'm sure, sooner or later, someone will come up with a clever spin that staying docked is, in fact, an exploit to avoid Bounty Hunters. Shocked

Too bad we don't have the full-blown WIS where you could walk up to some dude in a station and put the Glock to his noggin ... but hey, that would be awesome PVP without spaceships...

Pity.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
nomad Raholan
What Corp is it
#52 - 2013-04-07 11:19:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
nomad Raholan wrote:
Unwanted side-effect, miners being bountied and killed legally simply because they can be.
…except, of course, that bounties don't make it legal to kill miners. So no, that's not a side-effect of bounties (and even if it were, it's highly debatable whether it would be unwanted or not). Prices of ships going up because miners get blown up would be a rather good development at this point.

Quote:
Unwanted side-effect, outlaws still freely roam where-ever when-ever they like, most of the time unchallenged.
That's not a side-effect of bounties, nor is it unwanted. That's just the same old complacency that has always let them fly around unmolested.

If you've read anything about unwanted side-effects from bounties, it's a near-certainty that you've read something written by people who don't understand how bounties work.
Please tell the uneducated how if one wanted, can you hunt bounties in highsec without Concord intervention?? I'm curious now, you have stated it is clear I don't know what I am talking about so please provide the information. . Oh and I would be more than happy to shoot those with negative security and bounties in highsec except that concord intervention makes it near impossible, or is that another thing i have wrong?? Concord won't attack me if I kill someone with negative security and a bounty??
1, Do I just sit in system and wait for them to aggro me so I can shoot them, crap Concord will kill them so they not likely to do that, unless of course I'm in a ship they can easily gank. Then of course that's not bounty hunting it's just plain stupid.
2. Do you wardec him, hang on he is in an NPC corp so that's out. Plus there are over 100 people in his corp I don't want to fight, he has the bounty I want to collect
3. I can just follow him around, possibly for days until he tries to gank someone then hit him when his suspect flag comes up.Yep that works but hang on he's in a destroyer crap all that effort for maybe 2 mil isk and he flies away in his pod to do it again. Damn it, he is ganking in highsec I have to beat concord to the kill. Why should he worry,. the whole thing cost him nothing but a cheap destroyer.


Your missing the whole point of this post.. It is about turning bounty hunting into an eve profession. CCP has said Bounty Hunting is a legitimate profession for those wishing to take that path.. Yet it is not a legitimate profession if you are chasing bounties in empire space..

.,.,.,Disagree with me if you feel the need.,.,., .,.,.,Right or Wrong.,.,.,.  .,.,.,My opinion is free and mine to own.,.,.,.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#53 - 2013-04-07 11:22:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
The new bounty system is very similar to the F/I thread that talked about how to fix bounties isn't it? I think its a great example of Developers doing their best to incorporate player feedback , and players trying to be clear and develop well thought out ideas. One of the things that makes Eve great for sure.

I wouldn't mind if the payout % was a little higher, but if this is where it needs to be so that people can't cash in on themselves then so be it.

And I would like to see "friendly bounties" implemented; so that I can put a bounty on a friend and if he gets blown up then he will get a % of the bounty and I will get a Concord bounty payout notice. I like getting notified when my contacts get blown up just so I can go commiserate and help out if the loss was terrible. But putting even a small bounty on friends is kind of cheeky.

The other advantage to friendly bounties is that they might encourage risky flying that can lead to great adventures.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#54 - 2013-04-07 11:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
The new bounty system is very similar to the F/I thread that talked about how to fix bounties isn't it? I think its a great example of Developers doing their best to incorporate player feedback , and players trying to be clear and develop well thought out ideas. One of the things that makes Eve great for sure.

I wouldn't mind if the payout % was a little higher, but if this is where it needs to be so that people can't cash in on themselves then so be it.

And I would like to see "friendly bounties" implemented; so that I can put a bounty on a friend and if he gets blown up then he will get a % of the bounty and I will get a Concord bounty payout notice. I like getting notified when my contacts get blown up just so I can go commiserate and help out if the loss was terrible. But putting even a small bounty on friends is kind of cheeky.

The other advantage to friendly bounties is that they might encourage risky flying that can lead to great adventures.



Sometimes it is best to ignore players "feedback" otherwise the game can turn into a pigs mess of nerfs and safe zones.

Sometimes listening to players is not a good idea. You design a game, and get on with it. Unfortunately CCP seem to be unwilling to change areas of the game that are messy and legacy.

It takes effort to overhaul something and sometimes they just don't want to touch some areas, or they do some areas half heartedly with no real commitment, probably because they are low on cash and cannot inject a large amount of effort on them as they desperately try to reinvent themselves with Dust, since WoD is in an udder mess along with WiS.

Once a company starts to cut and downsize instead of driving on with changes, and just kneejerk react to player screams that are the most intolerable to moderate, that is the death of a game. You can spin it whatever way you wish but that is all it will be, newsspeak and spin.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#55 - 2013-04-07 11:58:29 UTC
Miilla wrote:

Sometimes it is best to ignore players "feedback" otherwise the game can turn into a pigs mess of nerfs and safe zones.

Sometimes listening to players is not a good idea. You design a game, and get on with it. Unfortunately CCP seem to be unwilling to change areas of the game that are messy and legacy.

It takes effort to overhaul something and sometimes they just don't want to touch some areas, or they do some areas half heartedly with no real commitment, probably because they are low on cash and cannot inject a large amount of effort on them as they desperately try to reinvent themselves with Dust, since WoD is in an udder mess along with WiS.

Once a company starts to cut and downsize instead of driving on with changes, and just kneejerk react to player screams that are the most intolerable to moderate, that is the death of a game. You can spin it whatever way you wish but that is all it will be, newsspeak and spin.


The changes to the bounty system don't seem like a knee jerk response to player whining. Its a good system, well thought out and implemented with very few snags. What are you on about?
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#56 - 2013-04-07 12:00:28 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Miilla wrote:

Sometimes it is best to ignore players "feedback" otherwise the game can turn into a pigs mess of nerfs and safe zones.

Sometimes listening to players is not a good idea. You design a game, and get on with it. Unfortunately CCP seem to be unwilling to change areas of the game that are messy and legacy.

It takes effort to overhaul something and sometimes they just don't want to touch some areas, or they do some areas half heartedly with no real commitment, probably because they are low on cash and cannot inject a large amount of effort on them as they desperately try to reinvent themselves with Dust, since WoD is in an udder mess along with WiS.

Once a company starts to cut and downsize instead of driving on with changes, and just kneejerk react to player screams that are the most intolerable to moderate, that is the death of a game. You can spin it whatever way you wish but that is all it will be, newsspeak and spin.


The changes to the bounty system don't seem like a knee jerk response to player whining. Its a good system, well thought out and implemented with very few snags. What are you on about?



It could be better by making being Wanted more dangerios in Empire.
Lady Areola Fappington
#57 - 2013-04-07 12:12:43 UTC
Miilla wrote:

It could be better by making being Wanted more dangerios in Empire.


Make it more dangerous. You're in a sandbox, why should CCP do things for you?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#58 - 2013-04-07 12:19:47 UTC
Miilla wrote:


It could be better by making being Wanted more dangerios in Empire.


What like putting a high enough bounty on someone comes with a kill right? I don't think that will happen, many players enjoy the relative safety of of highsec, anything that undermines that protection would be a core shift in the game that a lot of people don't want.

And judging from the miners posting in this thread bounties do make highsec more dangerous. Gank mechanics are made much more profitable by a high bounty. Think about a guy with a billion isk bounty out missioning, if a ganker finds and suicides him the gankers ship is paid for before the loot is scooped, the mission ship loot is all gravy.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#59 - 2013-04-07 12:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Miilla wrote:


It could be better by making being Wanted more dangerios in Empire.


What like putting a high enough bounty on someone comes with a kill right? I don't think that will happen, many players enjoy the relative safety of of highsec, anything that undermines that protection would be a core shift in the game that a lot of people don't want.

And judging from the miners posting in this thread bounties do make highsec more dangerous. Gank mechanics are made much more profitable by a high bounty. Think about a guy with a billion isk bounty out missioning, if a ganker finds and suicides him the gankers ship is paid for before the loot is scooped, the mission ship loot is all gravy.



So why should I be as safe as somebody without a bounty not being wanted and me being wanted say for example by 100 corps, 100 aliances and 10,000 players? Or as equally safe as somebody who is only wanted for 100,000 and 1 player?

Why should I be as equally as safe as them?

If you can give a good reason, by all means the systems good then :) I have yet to come up with a good reason. Can you?

There should be some sort of function on risk and level of wantedness.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#60 - 2013-04-07 13:07:54 UTC
nomad Raholan wrote:
Please tell the uneducated how if one wanted, can you hunt bounties in highsec without Concord intervention??
Find people who have kill rights that go along with their bounties. Find people who have their own corps and bounties that would pay for the wardec. Find people who are outlaws and who have bounties, and just blow them up.

Quote:
Oh and I would be more than happy to shoot those with negative security and bounties in highsec except that concord intervention makes it near impossible, or is that another thing i have wrong?? Concord won't attack me if I kill someone with negative security and a bounty??
Attacking outlaws is legal and does not trigger CONCORD. An “outlaw” is anyone with -5 sec status or less.

Quote:
Your missing the whole point of this post.. It is about turning bounty hunting into an eve profession. CCP has said Bounty Hunting is a legitimate profession for those wishing to take that path.. Yet it is not a legitimate profession if you are chasing bounties in empire space..
How so? Are you or are you not chasing people with bounties with the intent to collect them? If you are, then congratulations — you're a bounty hunter. Exactly how you choose to pursue that bounty is largely besides the point and if the target is good enough, it can be done even if you don't have access to any legal means of killing him.

Miilla wrote:
So why should I be as safe as somebody without a bounty not being wanted and me being wanted say for example by 100 corps, 100 aliances and 10,000 players? Or as equally safe as somebody who is only wanted for 100,000 and 1 player?

Why should I be as equally as safe as them?
Good news: you're not.
The fact that you have a bounty makes you a more valuable target for attackers to go after than if you didn't have it. Flying more expensive ships becomes even more risky since you start making yourself a free gank, from the hull alone.

Bounties offer a motivation to attack, not a means to do so — that's the job of Crimewatch. Higher bounty = higher motivation = higher risk. It's not rocket surgery.