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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Traitors Of the Caldari State

Author
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-04-06 16:47:17 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
...show down between the Caldari Sate and the atheistic Gallente Federation.


"Atheistic"?

Are you SURE you're Caldari? Because you damn well don't act like one. Our form of government is completely secular. In the State I'm from, religion is a private matter and irrelevant to a person's public life.

"Atheistic" is not a valid objection anyway, and it's a bloody stupid one when you realise that there are a huge number of Amarr adherents living in the Federation, both Amarrian expats and liberated Minmatar converts. You could make a case for the Federation actually being the second most Reclaimed nation in New Eden, in fact.

Whatever you're medicating yourself with, I bet it's illegal.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#22 - 2013-04-06 16:47:23 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
See, I thought treason was using a group of terrorists to act against the decision of the Chief Executive Panel...


Treason is a charge invented by the winners as an excuse for hanging the losers.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-04-06 17:16:16 UTC
in this case it's more being used as a desperate stab by the sore losers who prefer a paranoid fantasy of betrayal over honest introspection.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-04-07 02:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
So I see the Amarrian inquisition has set up shop in The State very interesting. I was actually enjoying life in the State during the time I lived there, of course The Malkalen incident made it a little difficult for me to walk outside without getting dirty looks, I even got physically assaulted at one point.

Seems that the State is coming full circle in it's wayward internal affairs. Tibus Heth will keep you in an infinite loop of self destruction until more people wise up.

Though here in the Federation we have very different ideas of treason. You can speak out against the government, but causing the deaths of millions of Gallente soldiers and the loss of a planet justifies public execution by internal combustion. I guess both are worthy of such a terrible fate in the State.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-04-07 02:31:06 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Seems that the State is coming full circle in it's wayward internal affairs. Tibus Heth will keep you in an infinite loop of self destruction until more people wise up.


Time will tell.

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Though here in the Federation we have very different ideas of treason. You can speak out against the government, but causing the deaths of millions of Gallente soldiers and the loss of a planet justifies public execution by internal combustion. I guess both are worthy of such a terrible fate in the State.


Not precisely. Speaking out against our leaders is heavily discouraged, not just socially but also corporately. To openly speak against the leaders of the State is to incite dissent and rebellion, disrupting the operation and security that the State embodies. An individual that openly speaks against the leadership of the State would normally face being isolated socially and possibly suffering a loss of position and status in their corporation. It would not be impossible to climb their way back up the corporate ladder and regain their social honor but it would take time.

It is difficult to understand, I am sure. However, the Caldari traditionally place extreme value on the community and the merit of our leadership. We are expected to sacrifice daily to serve the good of the many and this involves displaying discretion in our speech and behavior publicly.

~Malcolm Khross

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-04-07 03:18:49 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

It is difficult to understand, I am sure. However, the Caldari traditionally place extreme value on the community and the merit of our leadership. We are expected to sacrifice daily to serve the good of the many and this involves displaying discretion in our speech and behavior publicly.


Being half Caldari myself I do appreciate Caldari values, especially that of community. However, could it be possible that staying silent in the face of poor leadership is not for the greater good? Is it good for the community to allow someone to that could hurt it to stay in power? My Gallente side is saying "certainly not".

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2013-04-07 05:10:58 UTC
It is only ever acceptable to question leadership if you have a better candidate to lead in mind and if the candidate has displayed that she or he would accept your support.

In a meritocracy the simplest method of doing so is to step in and do a better job yourself, of course.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-04-07 11:06:40 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

Being half Caldari myself I do appreciate Caldari values, especially that of community. However, could it be possible that staying silent in the face of poor leadership is not for the greater good? Is it good for the community to allow someone to that could hurt it to stay in power? My Gallente side is saying "certainly not".


Leadership figures in the State are continuously scrutinized in the media, one needs only look at the varied news feeds from a variety of corporate outlets that almost every decision and action by corporate leaders will be open to public discussion, analysis and speculation. The only real issue is being able to discern the expected bias from differing corporate media. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as each Megacorporate media outlet seeking to create their own messages allows for greater dialogue and information to be available to citizens to form their own views and opinions.

However, personal political views and opinions should never impact detrimentally on business operations where one is employed. Public questioning of corporate leadership can often be seen as a betrayal as such information can be manipulated by competitors to drive share prices down, create a loss in favourable public perception, and loss of market value which would risk the jobs and livelihoods of employees. As such, it is often best in situations of grossly incompetent leadership to act with dignity and decorum, gain the necessary proof of negligence in leadership and provide it in private so that the person or persons in question may see benefits of spending more time with their families or seek the services of medical professionals for the incurred stress of their occupation.

Many an aspiring Executive have often sought to use private information on those above them without realizing that advancement through defamation and slander may in fact remove some but often at the price of being seen as acting without personal integrity, professionalism or honour in their dealings.

As for the Executor, it appears he is doing a sufficient job of displaying a lack of tact and wisdom with recent decisions to offend the body corporates of the majority of CEP members that further commentary is not required by those not in a position to currently affect change.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-04-07 12:09:47 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
It is only ever acceptable to question leadership if you have a better candidate to lead in mind and if the candidate has displayed that she or he would accept your support.

In a meritocracy the simplest method of doing so is to step in and do a better job yourself, of course.

Well, I think the CEP have aptly demonstrated this.

Hell, Pieter, if we had to keep the position of executor, I'd vote for you or Verin. I know that's not actually how it works, but it's the thought that counts, right?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#30 - 2013-04-07 21:48:17 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
So I see the Amarrian inquisition has set up shop in The State very interesting.


News to us.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2013-04-07 21:59:44 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
It is only ever acceptable to question leadership if you have a better candidate to lead in mind and if the candidate has displayed that she or he would accept your support.

In a meritocracy the simplest method of doing so is to step in and do a better job yourself, of course.

Well, I think the CEP have aptly demonstrated this.

Hell, Pieter, if we had to keep the position of executor, I'd vote for you or Verin. I know that's not actually how it works, but it's the thought that counts, right?


I would NEVER accept that position willingly and, if I were forced to do so, I would immediately move to have the office itself declared redundant.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-04-07 22:26:50 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I would NEVER accept that position willingly and, if I were forced to do so, I would immediately move to have the office itself declared redundant.

Which is precisely why you're very well-qualified for it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2013-04-07 22:44:33 UTC
Oh. I see what you did there.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Tatiana Yazria
Dragon Logistics
#34 - 2013-04-07 23:02:39 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I would NEVER accept that position willingly and, if I were forced to do so, I would immediately move to have the office itself declared redundant.


I would certainly support you in this, Pieter. All respect, you do not strike me as "executive" material.

That said, I am curious why so few have considered the possibility that the amplification and intensification of internal divisions within the State is deliberate. The concept of 'divide and conquer' is the foundation of many military and political strategies, and has been for centuries. Whether or not people "wise up" as others have put it, is largely irrelevant. Picking off isolated opposition can be a trivial matter.

Executor Heth is a fool, not an idiot; an important distinction. However, this attempt to drive a wedge between the various opposing fronts may result in the opposite of the apparently intended effect.

/Tatiana
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#35 - 2013-04-08 00:09:05 UTC
To place the well-being of the people entrusted into your care above the fleeting wishes of others, regardless of their rank, is never treason.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-04-08 00:46:57 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
So I see the Amarrian inquisition has set up shop in The State very interesting.


The Empire does not interfere in the internal affairs of its allies.

The Caldari will decide what direction the State will take. This is not anything we Amarr have any business meddling with. When the State finishes sorting out its internal difficulties, the Empress will decide how the Empire reacts.

Hopefully we will still be allies, if God wills it.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#37 - 2013-04-08 03:09:55 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
So I see the Amarrian inquisition has set up shop in The State very interesting.


The Empire does not interfere in the internal affairs of its allies.

The Caldari will decide what direction the State will take. This is not anything we Amarr have any business meddling with. When the State finishes sorting out its internal difficulties, the Empress will decide how the Empire reacts.

Hopefully we will still be allies, if God wills it.


Something tells me a similar response for the Union or the Matari Republic is not quite as politically correct.


Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-04-08 15:47:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Adel Khamez
BloodBird wrote:

Something tells me a similar response for the Union or the Matari Republic is not quite as politically correct.




The Republic and the Federation are not our allies. They are our enemies. I hope this makes matters clear for you.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#39 - 2013-04-08 17:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: BloodBird
Adel Khamez wrote:
BloodBird wrote:

Something tells me a similar response for the Union or the Matari Republic is not quite as politically correct.




The Republic and the Federation are not our allies. They are our enemies. I hope this makes matters clear for you.


Exactly. The State happen to be your 'allies' so "The Caldari will decide what direction the State will take. This is not anything we Amarr have any business meddling with" is a politically correct statement.

My implication was, ofc, that this is only so because of politics, and the State would be - and in the long run is still - on the same level of respect from the Amarrian Empire as the rest of the non-Imperial cluster.

"Allies" of political convenience make for untrustworthy companions at best.
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#40 - 2013-04-08 20:01:40 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
"Allies" of political convenience make for untrustworthy companions at best.


You may want to consider applying that line of reasoning for yourself, then. A group that would attack CONCORD itself whenever it suits them would certainly think little of stabbing you in the back, either.