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Lvl4 with 3 ships
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Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#1 - 2013-04-07 02:28:54 UTC
Considering the changes to AI since I last played the game a year ago, would you say it's possible for a 2 Drakes 1 Naga fleet to do level 4 missions without having to warp out?

The 2 drake pilots are very new, though I'm trying to push them into skilling up more before hopping in their BCs. I'd be flying the naga (27 mil sp, T2 shield tank skills, 6.5M in gunnery, but only T1 large hybrids for now) and EFT fit says I'd have a 320 dps tank against guristas with 440 dps at 46+29km using antimatter (504 using navy ammo) Would that be sufficient? Should I use an active tank on the naga instead of trying to make it passive?
Baggo Hammers
#2 - 2013-04-07 04:32:09 UTC
If you have to warp out of any non-level 5 mission with three ships, uninstall EVE.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-04-07 05:13:15 UTC
Naga has the most gank, and will get the aggro over drakes. It also can't tank, active or passive.
legion
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-04-07 05:25:49 UTC
I run lvl 4's with just 2 drakes passive shield and omni tanked. All T2 modules. eft 720 def and 290 dps.

The npc will switch targets if one of your chars has a soft tank you will have to warp em out.
In most mission you will be ok, but in the harder missions it will get wild and wooly in a hurry.
Just make sure to take out the elite frigs first.

That being said I would wait on doing 4's till you can at least field T2 tank.
Jazmyn Stone
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-04-07 15:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazmyn Stone
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
Considering the changes to AI since I last played the game a year ago, would you say it's possible for a 2 Drakes 1 Naga fleet to do level 4 missions without having to warp out?



Yes, it is possible. (really I haven't seen that much change in the AI in the L4s since the changes. I may have lost one or two drones in the last few months, and that's about it.)



The 2 drake pilots are very new, though I'm trying to push them into skilling up more before hopping in their BCs. I'd be flying the naga (27 mil sp, T2 shield tank skills, 6.5M in gunnery, but only T1 large hybrids for now) and EFT fit says I'd have a 320 dps tank against guristas with 440 dps at 46+29km using antimatter (504 using navy ammo) Would that be sufficient? Should I use an active tank on the naga instead of trying to make it passive?




Your 320dps tank is misleading in EFT, you actually don't have that much shield regen every second. That number is based on your set-up's effective hit points.

e.i. you could set up a Golem with two Ancillary X-L SBs, and that number may read about 2290/2290, that does not mean you are regenerating 2200 dps. Peak self recharge of the shields is only about 15dps, and activating one of the SBs you will get about 300+ true dps. You must be aware of the differences, or you could make a costly mistake by thinking you have more than you do.

-Jaz

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-04-07 15:17:40 UTC
Jazmyn Stone wrote:
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
Considering the changes to AI since I last played the game a year ago, would you say it's possible for a 2 Drakes 1 Naga fleet to do level 4 missions without having to warp out?



Yes, it is possible. (really I haven't seen that much change in the AI in the L4s since the changes. I may have lost one or two drones in the last few months, and that's about it.)



The 2 drake pilots are very new, though I'm trying to push them into skilling up more before hopping in their BCs. I'd be flying the naga (27 mil sp, T2 shield tank skills, 6.5M in gunnery, but only T1 large hybrids for now) and EFT fit says I'd have a 320 dps tank against guristas with 440 dps at 46+29km using antimatter (504 using navy ammo) Would that be sufficient? Should I use an active tank on the naga instead of trying to make it passive?




Your 320dps tank is misleading in EFT, you actually don't have that much shield regen every second. That number is based on your set-up's effective hit points. e.i. you could set up a Golem with two Ancillary X-L SBs, and that number may read about 2200+, that does not mean you are regenerating 2200 dps. Your real dps is much much lower. You must be aware of the differences, or you could make a costly mistake.

-Jaz


Even no bcs drake only gets up to 255 dps passive regen max without removing hardners. Myrm can go up to 375 dps passive regen though. You EFT warriors may want to look into that.P
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#7 - 2013-04-07 16:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
OP it depend of the skills of the fleet and knowledge of missions i spend some time last night with some random dudes doing missions i was in armor pvp moded to pve prophesy some dude in apoc and other in maelstrom..it was terrible due to angel rats and there was warp out many times in missions like warld colide etc...

So it all depends if they cant tank drakes and if they cant kill elite frigs things can go south fast. and you will not be able to do much.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#8 - 2013-04-07 19:42:29 UTC
Jazmyn Stone wrote:
Yes, it is possible. (really I haven't seen that much change in the AI in the L4s since the changes. I may have lost one or two drones in the last few months, and that's about it.)

Your 320dps tank is misleading in EFT, you actually don't have that much shield regen every second. That number is based on your set-up's effective hit points.

e.i. you could set up a Golem with two Ancillary X-L SBs, and that number may read about 2290/2290, that does not mean you are regenerating 2200 dps. Peak self recharge of the shields is only about 15dps, and activating one of the SBs you will get about 300+ true dps. You must be aware of the differences, or you could make a costly mistake by thinking you have more than you do.

-Jaz


I understand that my shields actually don't regen 320 hp per seconds. Looking at my fit, they actually regen 56.68 hp per seconds at peak, though this translates to the 320 tanked dps when considering mission specific resists (85.9 primary, 64 secondary vs guristas).

As for the impressions I had about the AI changes, they may be misinterpretations on my part. I ran quite a few missions with those 2 friends (lvl 3s) and we've been having issues while running The Blockade, and thinking about it, it may well have been mostly due to new spawns and not aggro swapping.

Mina:
Both newbies are RL friends and we're on skype while playing, so I can guide them in terms of fittings and damage selection, so that shouldn't be a problem for the most part (unless I make fit mistakes for them)

I can fly any T1 BS though, so maybe I should just get that instead of try to find a way to use my Naga.

Considering we're mission running in Caldari space, what would you suggest between a Raven or Mega? I can't use T2 large hybrids yet (currently finishing off med hybrids 5) and I also can't use T2 cruise (only lvl1 in the basic skill) but I can T2 tank and fit Tsupport mods
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#9 - 2013-04-07 19:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Any bs you feel suited will work it will remove large chunks of incoming dps fastest also 2 flights of small drones recommended if frigs turn on killing spree on drones,stay close and tell them in high dps missions to shoot only what is shooting you(assuming you are anchor).logi drones don't pull aggro stuff like that.

Ability to broadcast target that is scraming you helps in the heat of the moment too.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-04-07 20:03:41 UTC
if you're in a rail naga and kite around it should be fine. 3 ships combined dps is going to be about 800 at the very least so stuff will die quick.

Just make sure the drakes are overtanked if they do unexpectedly draw aggro

Art of Explosions
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-04-07 20:43:21 UTC
sabre906 wrote:

Even no bcs drake only gets up to 255 dps passive regen max without removing hardners. Myrm can go up to 375 dps passive regen though. You EFT warriors may want to look into that.P


Eh....?

Not sure those numbers are right. Or do I misunderstand something? Are you mixing DPS and HPS?
Grombutz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-04-07 22:20:31 UTC
go for spider-tank. Problem solved.
midas Silf
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-04-08 09:48:32 UTC
To be honest I'd advise that you blitz l3's in your BC's until you have the skills to properly fit a BS. Your ISK per hr is going to be terrible and it's not going to be a great experience for the newer guys.

The Drakes will tank ok but they do such crappy dps that it will take all day to kill the rats, however, if the Naga is doing more DPS the rats will primary it meaning your main damage dealer will have to warp out repeatedly. In missions with multiple pockets with long burns between gates it's going to be painstakingly boring.

L4's are really suited to a well fitted BS, if you want to invite some friends in BC's that fine, but you need a boat with solid DPS/tank to run the mission. If you don't have a decent BS, runs l3's until you do. It's much quicker and you'll make more ISK which help you buy the new BS's that you need.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2013-04-09 03:37:25 UTC
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:


Considering we're mission running in Caldari space, what would you suggest between a Raven or Mega? I can't use T2 large hybrids yet (currently finishing off med hybrids 5) and I also can't use T2 cruise (only lvl1 in the basic skill) but I can T2 tank and fit Tsupport mods


Use the BS that you have the better tanking skills for. The mega will possibly work better as you can put some eccm in the mids without sacrificing tank to help with the jamming. It is also better at taking out incoming small stuff than the raven. Also going to depend on you support skills and the lvl you have each BS trained to.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-04-09 22:43:04 UTC
Baggo Hammers wrote:
If you have to warp out of any non-level 5 mission with three ships, uninstall EVE.


And you sir, learn to read the original post.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#16 - 2013-04-10 02:02:05 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
if you're in a rail naga and kite around it should be fine. 3 ships combined dps is going to be about 800 at the very least so stuff will die quick.

Just make sure the drakes are overtanked if they do unexpectedly draw aggro


yep, also with the nagas sig radius + speed (assuming you use an afterburner), a 300something tank should be sufficient for nearly anything, just watch out for webbers.

also maybe consider moving your friends up to a battleship with a micro jump drive. the rokh fits pretty nicely for that. and imo that will teach them more than an over tanked drake ever could.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter