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Why risk versus reward doesn't matter
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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#341 - 2013-04-06 20:37:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I've done it for 56 jumps from Jel to Stain. But GENERALLY expect? Hard to answer. I went through every sector of space except WH space.

But no trip has ever been the exact same so I do not have a way to answer the question in which it was asked.

But you CAN ap across the universe and come out unscathed.

Since I've done this tons of times (between jita and amarr, even), the answer to that question is "yes, you can autopilot and expect to come out on the other side unscathed". If we put, say, a 1B BPO in the cargohold, you won't make it unscatched.

If we remove concord, and you take the exact same route (let's pick jita to amarr), and you're in a completely empty and worthless ship, would you expect to make the same trip unscathed while autopiloting?



All questions can only be answered by experience and/or facts.

I have never autopiloted from Amarr to Jita with no Concord.

Cannot answer the question.

I'll leave the "if's" to you.



Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.


Sure, just remove concord and I'll give it a go.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#342 - 2013-04-06 20:39:03 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.


Sure, just remove concord and I'll give it a go.


Rancer has no CONCORD, so you're all set.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#343 - 2013-04-06 20:39:26 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
All questions can only be answered by experience and/or facts.

I have never autopiloted from Amarr to Jita with no Concord.

Cannot answer the question.

I'll leave the "if's" to you.

We can get the answer to that by looking at lowsec/nullsec, where there is no concord. And the answer to the question then becomes: you will get ganked the instant you meet someone who have the opportunity to lock you and fire at you.

Which means, a hisec without concord becomes lowsec, i.e. concord imparts safety and protection.


I've already answered this-

Quote:

I've done it for 56 jumps from Jel to Stain. But GENERALLY expect? Hard to answer. I went through every sector of space except WH space.

But no trip has ever been the exact same so I do not have a way to answer the question in which it was asked.

But you CAN ap across the universe and come out unscathed.

EDIT- And not in just a noobship. I've also AP'd the trip in a cruiser before as well. But that was only about 35 of the jumps. And was a test through TEST space actually.


I did arrive in Stain unscathed, and manually jumped the last few jumps to my station.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#344 - 2013-04-06 20:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.


Sure, just remove concord and I'll give it a go.


Rancer has no CONCORD, so you're all set.



So it's not highsec right? Keep in mind I was "born" in Amarr but don't frequent there or in Jita too much. I am not familiar with the areas. I have gone on WT roams from Dodixie to Jita and have not seen anything to give me cause for alarm though, but that was in a small gang as well so /shrug

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2013-04-06 20:40:38 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did arrive in Stain unscathed, and manually jumped the last few jumps to my station.

Did you even meet anyone on the way?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#346 - 2013-04-06 20:41:26 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
So you can deter but not prevent? Is that what you're saying? Your post is a tad contradictory.


In what way is it contradictory.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#347 - 2013-04-06 20:42:20 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I did arrive in Stain unscathed, and manually jumped the last few jumps to my station.

Did you even meet anyone on the way?



When I was AP? I don't know, I was afk. I'm sure my impairor's shields weren't that good though even though they were full, I did not see any damage on my armor.

I have also been killed by bubble camps a few times as well. Like I said, not every trip has been the same (Except when I flew stealth but that wasn't autopiloted).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#348 - 2013-04-06 20:43:25 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.


Sure, just remove concord and I'll give it a go.


Rancer has no CONCORD, so you're all set.



So it's not highsec right? Keep in mind I was "born" in Amarr but don't frequent there or in Jita too much. I am not familiar with the areas. I have gone on WT roams from Dodixie to Jita and have not seen anything to give me cause for alarm though, but that was in a small gang as well so /shrug


Rancer is a famously camped LS. LS is, as far as an autopiloting ship is concerned, Empire without CONCORD.

So, set an AP route through Rancer, and tell me how it turns out. If CONCORD really doesn't provide protection as you claim, it should be just as safe as any other route.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2013-04-06 20:43:29 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
When I was AP? I don't know, I was afk. I'm sure my impairor's shields weren't that good though even though they were full, I did not see any damage on my armor.

I have also been killed by bubble camps a few times as well. Like I said, not every trip has been the same (Except when I flew stealth but that wasn't autopiloted).

So you're not as certain of arriving at your destination when concord's not there to protect you?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#350 - 2013-04-06 20:43:59 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.


Sure, just remove concord and I'll give it a go.


Rancer has no CONCORD, so you're all set.



So it's not highsec right?


The only thing different between high sec and low sec is concord. So its a viable thing to do to see the difference.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#351 - 2013-04-06 20:44:26 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
So you can deter but not prevent? Is that what you're saying? Your post is a tad contradictory.


In what way is it contradictory.



Back when I posted those dictionary links...

deter
verb
1. discourage, inhibit, put off, frighten, intimidate, daunt, hinder, dissuade, talk out of Jail sentences have done nothing to deter the offenders.
2. prevent, stop, check, curb, damp, restrain, prohibit, hinder, debar Capital punishment does not deter crime.

Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002
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That's where my confusion came from.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#352 - 2013-04-06 20:46:27 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
When I was AP? I don't know, I was afk. I'm sure my impairor's shields weren't that good though even though they were full, I did not see any damage on my armor.

I have also been killed by bubble camps a few times as well. Like I said, not every trip has been the same (Except when I flew stealth but that wasn't autopiloted).

So you're not as certain of arriving at your destination when concord's not there to protect you?



It was through null, there was no concord. There was only 2 jumps through highsec on that 56 jump route, and both ends sometimes have really nasty gate camps, other times it's clear.

So whereas I am sure I arrived there, I'm not sure on the "unscathed" part because I didn't bother to check my combat message log as I arrived safely, or atleast, my ship was 100% intact.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#353 - 2013-04-06 20:47:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.


Sure, just remove concord and I'll give it a go.


Rancer has no CONCORD, so you're all set.



So it's not highsec right?


The only thing different between high sec and low sec is concord. So its a viable thing to do to see the difference.



So Rancor is the one lowsec system that is the same as highsec? I've AP'd through Egg and Amamake before as well as out past Gratesier on my way to Minmatar pipeline.

That's as close as I can get to compare I guess.

I'll go there tonight if I jump back down to highsec.

Rancor is easy enough to remember.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#354 - 2013-04-06 20:49:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.


Sure, just remove concord and I'll give it a go.


Rancer has no CONCORD, so you're all set.



So it's not highsec right? Keep in mind I was "born" in Amarr but don't frequent there or in Jita too much. I am not familiar with the areas. I have gone on WT roams from Dodixie to Jita and have not seen anything to give me cause for alarm though, but that was in a small gang as well so /shrug


Rancer is a famously camped LS. LS is, as far as an autopiloting ship is concerned, Empire without CONCORD.

So, set an AP route through Rancer, and tell me how it turns out. If CONCORD really doesn't provide protection as you claim, it should be just as safe as any other route.



Strange how that comment is a contradiction in terms though. Concord doesn't stop anyone from ganking me now, regardless of what system I'm in.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2013-04-06 20:52:33 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
It was through null, there was no concord. There was only 2 jumps through highsec on that 56 jump route, and both ends sometimes have really nasty gate camps, other times it's clear.

So whereas I am sure I arrived there, I'm not sure on the "unscathed" part because I didn't bother to check my combat message log as I arrived safely, or atleast, my ship was 100% intact.

An impairor you say, meaning if anything even looked at you funny, you would die? Yeah, you didn't meet anyone on your way.

Murk Paradox wrote:
Strange how that comment is a contradiction in terms though. Concord doesn't stop anyone from ganking me now, regardless of what system I'm in.

Yes, it does. It protects you by acting as a deterrent by promising to blow up the ganker's ship if they aggress you.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#356 - 2013-04-06 20:52:41 UTC
So to bring everything back up to speed... Lord Zim says Concord Protects, Baltec1 says it's bannable to use
Concord for protection, Ruby says Concord doesn't prevent, but deters, and Murk says that Concord is a cost assessment for risk vs reward.

And Rancor is HS without Concord.

Weird ******* thread.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#357 - 2013-04-06 20:53:17 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
It was through null, there was no concord. There was only 2 jumps through highsec on that 56 jump route, and both ends sometimes have really nasty gate camps, other times it's clear.

So whereas I am sure I arrived there, I'm not sure on the "unscathed" part because I didn't bother to check my combat message log as I arrived safely, or atleast, my ship was 100% intact.

An impairor you say, meaning if anything even looked at you funny, you would die? Yeah, you didn't meet anyone on your way.

Murk Paradox wrote:
Strange how that comment is a contradiction in terms though. Concord doesn't stop anyone from ganking me now, regardless of what system I'm in.

Yes, it does. It protects you by acting as a deterrent by promising to blow up the ganker's ship if they aggress you.



I've been ganked in highsec. Therefore you sir are incorrect.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2013-04-06 20:54:46 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I've been ganked in highsec. Therefore you sir are incorrect.

I guess condoms aren't protection either, since people have gotten pregnant while condoms were being used.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#359 - 2013-04-06 20:54:56 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
So to bring everything back up to speed... Lord Zim says Concord Protects, Baltec1 says it's bannable to use
Concord for protection, Ruby says Concord doesn't prevent, but deters, and Murk says that Concord is a cost assessment for risk vs reward.

And Rancor is HS without Concord.

Weird ******* thread.


No, just you don't seem to know squat about concord mechanics and are not listening.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#360 - 2013-04-06 20:55:20 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
It was through null, there was no concord. There was only 2 jumps through highsec on that 56 jump route, and both ends sometimes have really nasty gate camps, other times it's clear.

So whereas I am sure I arrived there, I'm not sure on the "unscathed" part because I didn't bother to check my combat message log as I arrived safely, or atleast, my ship was 100% intact.

An impairor you say, meaning if anything even looked at you funny, you would die? Yeah, you didn't meet anyone on your way.

Murk Paradox wrote:
Strange how that comment is a contradiction in terms though. Concord doesn't stop anyone from ganking me now, regardless of what system I'm in.

Yes, it does. It protects you by acting as a deterrent by promising to blow up the ganker's ship if they aggress you.



I have also done it in an omen as well. But like I said, not the full trip. I had to afk and ended up AP'ing about 30 jumps transversing TEST space up to Stain (through Tribal territory as well who ALWAYS came after us). I thought I stopped my AP in highsec (that same 2 system pitstop I mentioned earlier) but didn't finish clicking the settings.

Point being, every trip has been different, before I got a jc moved up there.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.