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Why risk versus reward doesn't matter
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#321 - 2013-04-06 20:13:16 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
The pilot decides via risk vs reward what he wants to do. Concord is merely a cost in that equation.

And what happens when concord is out of the picture?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#322 - 2013-04-06 20:14:10 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
The pilot decides via risk vs reward what he wants to do. Concord is merely a cost in that equation.

And what happens when concord is out of the picture?



The ganker gets greater reward for less risk. And preys gate guns or station guns aren't a factor. And runs for being yellow (or red if already pirate).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#323 - 2013-04-06 20:14:20 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



Well, I'd reread it, since it specifically says spawning concord.

http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/12/ganking-101-concord-manipulation.html

Explicitly mentions spawning Concord per ship used to gank with.

That same mechanic (if it's not bannable right?) would, or could be used for the same method of protection.


Wrong.

Spawning concord in a belt to protect yourself is bannable.

Spawning concord to move them from a belt is not a bannable offence.

They are not the same.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#324 - 2013-04-06 20:15:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



Well, I'd reread it, since it specifically says spawning concord.

http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/12/ganking-101-concord-manipulation.html

Explicitly mentions spawning Concord per ship used to gank with.

That same mechanic (if it's not bannable right?) would, or could be used for the same method of protection.


Wrong.

Spawning concord in a belt to protect yourself is bannable.

Spawning concord to move them from a belt is not a bannable offence.

They are not the same.


So using Concord for protection is bannable? Just to be clear.


I find it odd that concord, being used for protection, is cause for a ban if you use it for protection. Yet manipulating their response times is not. Kind of shows that they are not for protection, but retribution.

Thanks.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2013-04-06 20:16:25 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
The ganker gets greater reward for less risk. And preys gate guns or station guns aren't a factor. And runs for being yellow (or red if already pirate).

And what is the direct result of that on hisec safety?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#326 - 2013-04-06 20:18:01 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
The ganker gets greater reward for less risk. And preys gate guns or station guns aren't a factor. And runs for being yellow (or red if already pirate).

And what is the direct result of that on hisec safety?



What safety? highsec isn't supposed to be safe.

The wicked get punished, nothing else.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2013-04-06 20:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
The ganker gets greater reward for less risk. And preys gate guns or station guns aren't a factor. And runs for being yellow (or red if already pirate).

And what is the direct result of that on hisec safety?

What safety? highsec isn't supposed to be safe.

So you can't autopilot from one side of the eve universe in an empty hauler and generally expect to arrive on the other side unscathed?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#328 - 2013-04-06 20:20:14 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


So using Concord for protection is bannable? Just to be clear.


I find it odd that concord, being used for protection, is cause for a ban if you use it for protection. Yet manipulating their response times is not. Kind of shows that they are not for protection, but retribution.

Thanks.


We dont manipulate their response times. They respond just as fast as normal.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#329 - 2013-04-06 20:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
The ganker gets greater reward for less risk. And preys gate guns or station guns aren't a factor. And runs for being yellow (or red if already pirate).

And what is the direct result of that on hisec safety?

What safety? highsec isn't supposed to be safe.

So you can't autopilot from one side of the eve universe in an empty noobship and generally expect to arrive on the other side unscathed?



I've done it for 56 jumps from Jel to Stain. But GENERALLY expect? Hard to answer. I went through every sector of space except WH space.

But no trip has ever been the exact same so I do not have a way to answer the question in which it was asked.

But you CAN ap across the universe and come out unscathed.

EDIT- And not in just a noobship. I've also AP'd the trip in a cruiser before as well. But that was only about 35 of the jumps. And was a test through TEST space actually.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#330 - 2013-04-06 20:22:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


So using Concord for protection is bannable? Just to be clear.


I find it odd that concord, being used for protection, is cause for a ban if you use it for protection. Yet manipulating their response times is not. Kind of shows that they are not for protection, but retribution.

Thanks.


We dont manipulate their response times. They respond just as fast as normal.


That's not what I asked =(


I'd rather know from the people who are experts on the matter =)

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#331 - 2013-04-06 20:26:02 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


That's not what I asked =(


I'd rather know from the people who are experts on the matter =)


We are the ones who came up with that tactic.

You seriously want to reconsider calling out a corp who masterminded most of past years high sec ganking events and tactics.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#332 - 2013-04-06 20:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


That's not what I asked =(


I'd rather know from the people who are experts on the matter =)


We are the ones who came up with that tactic.

You seriously want to reconsider calling out a corp who masterminded most of past years high sec ganking events and tactics.



Wait, calling out?

You said you are the experts on the mechanic. I'm asking those experts a question, to make sure I have it right.

You either are or you aren't. Make up your damned mind.

It's simple... is using Concord for protection a bannable offense, yes or no? It's pretty ******* pertinent to this topic ffs.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2013-04-06 20:29:19 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I've done it for 56 jumps from Jel to Stain. But GENERALLY expect? Hard to answer. I went through every sector of space except WH space.

But no trip has ever been the exact same so I do not have a way to answer the question in which it was asked.

But you CAN ap across the universe and come out unscathed.

Since I've done this tons of times (between jita and amarr, even), the answer to that question is "yes, you can autopilot and expect to come out on the other side unscathed". If we put, say, a 1B BPO in the cargohold, you won't make it unscatched.

If we remove concord, and you take the exact same route (let's pick jita to amarr), and you're in a completely empty and worthless ship, would you expect to make the same trip unscathed while autopiloting?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#334 - 2013-04-06 20:30:29 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



Wait, calling out?

You said you are the experts on the mechanic. I'm asking those experts a question, to make sure I have it right.

You either are or you aren't. Make up your damned mind.

It's simple... is using Concord for protection a bannable offense, yes or no? It's pretty ******* pertinent to this topic ffs.


This is the fouth time I have said using concord for protection is a bannable offence.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#335 - 2013-04-06 20:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Murk Paradox wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Wrong.

Spawning concord in a belt to protect yourself is bannable.

Spawning concord to move them from a belt is not a bannable offence.

They are not the same.


So using Concord for protection is bannable? Just to be clear.


I find it odd that concord, being used for protection, is cause for a ban if you use it for protection. Yet manipulating their response times is not. Kind of shows that they are not for protection, but retribution.

Thanks.


Spawning CONCORD to sit in a belt with you is attempting to use it to prevent things from happening to you.
You could also call it attempting to use it as a personal protection service.

CONCORD's role is to provide protection to the group (that is, all capsuleers in HS, not any individual capsuleer) by deterring criminals using punishments.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#336 - 2013-04-06 20:33:13 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I've done it for 56 jumps from Jel to Stain. But GENERALLY expect? Hard to answer. I went through every sector of space except WH space.

But no trip has ever been the exact same so I do not have a way to answer the question in which it was asked.

But you CAN ap across the universe and come out unscathed.

Since I've done this tons of times (between jita and amarr, even), the answer to that question is "yes, you can autopilot and expect to come out on the other side unscathed". If we put, say, a 1B BPO in the cargohold, you won't make it unscatched.

If we remove concord, and you take the exact same route (let's pick jita to amarr), and you're in a completely empty and worthless ship, would you expect to make the same trip unscathed while autopiloting?



All questions can only be answered by experience and/or facts.

I have never autopiloted from Amarr to Jita with no Concord.

Cannot answer the question.

I'll leave the "if's" to you.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#337 - 2013-04-06 20:33:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



Wait, calling out?

You said you are the experts on the mechanic. I'm asking those experts a question, to make sure I have it right.

You either are or you aren't. Make up your damned mind.

It's simple... is using Concord for protection a bannable offense, yes or no? It's pretty ******* pertinent to this topic ffs.


This is the fouth time I have said using concord for protection is a bannable offence.




Ty sir.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#338 - 2013-04-06 20:34:27 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I've done it for 56 jumps from Jel to Stain. But GENERALLY expect? Hard to answer. I went through every sector of space except WH space.

But no trip has ever been the exact same so I do not have a way to answer the question in which it was asked.

But you CAN ap across the universe and come out unscathed.

Since I've done this tons of times (between jita and amarr, even), the answer to that question is "yes, you can autopilot and expect to come out on the other side unscathed". If we put, say, a 1B BPO in the cargohold, you won't make it unscatched.

If we remove concord, and you take the exact same route (let's pick jita to amarr), and you're in a completely empty and worthless ship, would you expect to make the same trip unscathed while autopiloting?



All questions can only be answered by experience and/or facts.

I have never autopiloted from Amarr to Jita with no Concord.

Cannot answer the question.

I'll leave the "if's" to you.



Give it a shot. Just add Rancer to your waypoint list.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#339 - 2013-04-06 20:34:59 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Wrong.

Spawning concord in a belt to protect yourself is bannable.

Spawning concord to move them from a belt is not a bannable offence.

They are not the same.


So using Concord for protection is bannable? Just to be clear.


I find it odd that concord, being used for protection, is cause for a ban if you use it for protection. Yet manipulating their response times is not. Kind of shows that they are not for protection, but retribution.

Thanks.


Spawning CONCORD to sit in a belt with you is attempting to use it to prevent things from happening to you.
You could also call it attempting to use it as a personal protection service.

CONCORD's role is to provide protection to the group (that is, all capsuleers in HS, not any individual capsuleer) by deterring criminals using punishments.



So you can deter but not prevent? Is that what you're saying? Your post is a tad contradictory.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2013-04-06 20:37:07 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
All questions can only be answered by experience and/or facts.

I have never autopiloted from Amarr to Jita with no Concord.

Cannot answer the question.

I'll leave the "if's" to you.

We can get the answer to that by looking at lowsec/nullsec, where there is no concord. And the answer to the question then becomes: you will get ganked the instant you meet someone who have the opportunity to lock you and fire at you.

Which means, a hisec without concord becomes lowsec, i.e. concord imparts safety and protection.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat