Player Features and Ideas Discussion

would a a cloaked ship showing up as a shimmer in D scan after X amount of time be sufficient? I'd also like to see the ship have a radius of multiple AU's when this happens so that someone can't use D'scan to pinpoint them to a celestial. For an example... If the signal is 30 AU wide and your in it, it will show up on D scan regardless of which way you look.

Thank you for proving my point as to why an AFK tag would be bad with regards to psy warfare. To be less snarky, it is the question of whether or not the cloaked pilot is AFK or not, that is psychological warfare. That is indeed a valid form of play in the game. Or if they have been in the system for a few hours is the player now back at the keyboard.

An AFK tag destroys this. Because the tag removes all doubt. It makes null sec safer than it already is (which in many ways is already pretty safe).



No, because once you are no longer afk, then they know with certainty to get safe.

I believe the biggest reason for this vehement oposition is mainly because you want to be able to be persieved as a threat and be inconspicuous at the same time, and there is where i believe the imbalance lies. The drawback to this, as I have said before, is that the ones you want to affect is being given an excuse to be affected. They hide because you let them hide.

And as stated before, there is not really anything psycological in this. It is one man with a cloak. How can one man with a cloak affect an entire alliance. They come out again, because they are bored, they want to play the game, and though I can't really talk for all, most, I believe, don't really care if they loose a ship. After all, they are in null, loosing ships is a part of the day.

I suppose you are welcome, though I didn't know ridiculing one sentence and answering a question constitutes as proving a point. And thank you for taking the time to be less snarky

A little fun fact too thou you are all probably already aware of this. In empire space, if you enter a factions area that is hostile to you, you can not get the cloak to work.

To El Geo:

There certainly is a lot of untapped potential for the cloak, and I hope that one day CCP will remodel it. Completely.

Please, there is no reason to shout. And you misunderstand, it is what you want to be persieved as, not necessarily what you are. Hence the reason you go afk. Or is that what I am mistaking?

On the other hand you also want to be persieved as a threat. Or you kinda want them to know you are there. Or better yet, you want to tell them that there is nothing they can directly do to you, so they better not try anything funny.

As you so timidly put it, there is indeed a GIANT ******* LIST THAT SHOWS YOU ARE IN SYSTEM. There is no denying that, and I have never denied that. You on the other hand too have a pretty powerful tool at your disposal. Whenever the other players are out in space, with you, you will know.

If you told me that you would want to be more inconspicuous, as in, be removed from that list, so that you could be greater at intel gathering and forward scouting. I would say cool, you are using the cloak to be inconspicuous. In return though I would ask, would you be willing to trade that ability with your guns and cyno?

If you told me that you would want to be removed from that list so that you could be greater at hunting and or killing stuff, I would say, cool, you are using another aspect of cloaking, namely being unseen untill you strike. In return though I would ask, would you be willing to give me a ship that can be used to find you?

In other words, my first question then.

Edit: Technically it would be my second. but I'll paste it here again.

If you told me that you would want to be more inconspicuous, as in, be removed from that list, so that you could be greater at intel gathering and forward scouting. I would say cool, you are using the cloak to be inconspicuous. In return though I would ask, would you be willing to trade that ability with your guns and cyno?

But such a pilot is not inconspicuous. Depending on how they have their client set up they will see me a second or two before I actually load grid as soon as I jump in. The whole time I am there I am visible in local. Nerf cloaking so that AFK cloaking is no longer viable then that is an implicit buff to local...something that is already powerful in terms of intel.



Have you looked at the threads about nerfing cloaks? They are legion and they often come with the complaint that a single alt with a cloak is locking down an entire system. So either these posters are liars, or the psychological effects are indeed real.



Don't really care about empire since I rarely spend considerable time there....And I despise missions...so standings have never been an issue to me.

And you don't get the point about being percieved as AFK. The goal there is to cloak in system so long that the residents start to see you as part of the system. There is the star, the asteroid belts, the moons, the anomalies, that guy who always afk cloaks us....

Then they start ratting. Maybe in groups, or in cheaper fit ships. And yet there I sit. Doing nothing. Then one day some sap brings in his marauder or carrier and yet I do nothing. My threat level continues to dwindle...then I decloak, point the shiny and pop the covert cyno and we bag ourselves a nice kill.

That is what he is talking about.



Local does not tell where one is in system, merely that one is in system. D-scan might show something if you are within range, but that is cumbersome, much more so than local which can be used to its full efficiency with a mere glance. And if you pop probes...well you better be fast cause chances are your target just warped to a POS or station.



Cloaked ships can't use their guns or cyno. Assuming you meant that such ships can never use guns, you want to make them completely pointless...might as well remove them. This will never ever happen since it will be turning the game into Candyland.

Yes, lets reduce force projection so we can ossify null sec even more. I can understand not wanting to have supers, titans, dreads and carriers to cross the galaxy in 20 minutes, but sheesh, letting an alliance deploy a 250 man fleet is what fleet fighting is about. Changing it so that gates have to be used will give defenders even more of an advantage.

Cloaked ships are great at getting past the gate camp, getting into position and lighting the cyno so that the big fat fun fight can take place. It adds uncertainty to the game and makes it fun.

Lets not gimp null sec warfare in pursuit of ultra low risk carebearing in null sec please.

That bit was more a direct response to Akuyaku, since it didn't seem like he really wanted to partake in the discussion. I simply responded in kind.



It is an interresting proposal though. One could say that ships other than spec ops ships could be limited to either a cloak or a cyno. If you want to fleet battle, meet them at the gate, or possibly sacrifice a ship to get a bit further in. I won't really go too far into cyno yet. I don't know enough about it.



You can not deny though that the scanner is a powerful tool for a cloaker to currently have.



I have not gotten into any detail yet about the ship. It could even be a defensive one. Of the top of my head it could be a ship that snags the lock for a few seconds. Again this was more a direct response to Akyuaku. Depending on your, and others, thoughts on this it might develop. That is the good thing about discussion.



Lastly, if you could try to put yourself in the opponents shoes, what would you reckon be a good tradeoff?

Let me rephrase then.



from the top of your head, what could that re-tooling be.

I want to completely redo the cloak, yes. This will also involve basicly everyone to adapt. I might be looking too far ahead of myself.

But one can hope.

Oh, I can be pretty specific on that too.

You might even like the concept details, who knows....

How I would change local, and eliminate AFK issues:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2369739#post2369739

How would cloaking be adapted after such changes:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2668453#post2668453