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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#141 - 2011-10-31 11:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Zombatar wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Zombatar wrote:
You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun.
That's pretty immoral of you, don't you think?


He's a self-confessed murderous vigilante, acting as judge, jury and executioner to the people HE decides are unworthy? Talk about sociopathic....


LOL

Anyway, I find myself wondering if people who scam in EVE what stops them from doing it in real life? Ah I know, LAWS, people have used PONZI schemes to rip people off so many times in RL is not worth saying. They would do it all time JUST like in JITA, too bad government had to stop them, else this give me 5 mill i give u back 10 would be all over the world. Hell, go read some Nigerian scams.

EVE just shows how bad people in this world are. And when people like the OP questions their morality he has all the right to do it. If people treat OTHER people like garbage in a game, why would they be any better in RL were there no coercive measures?

Guess NBSI alliances all hate me now. :D



So tonight, you're going "on patrol" to kill a few more 'suspicious types' I guess? Gotta keep that community safe and clean, right?

How many criminals have you executed this month?

EDIT: Incidentally, you forgot to mention what you thought about those violent, murderous racketeers in the so called "sporting community". Perhaps you could make a start there.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#142 - 2011-10-31 11:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Zombatar wrote:
Flame me all you want.
We're not flaiming you. We're asking if you believe in (and adhere to) your own statements. According to you, you are a religious zealot with no regard for human live, freedom, or rule of law. It's either that, or your premise about the mirroring of reality in fantasy is false.
Quote:
I choose to engage in PvP and shoot only reds/pirates that is a BIG difference from engaging a solo miner in high sec for the LOLS.
Not really, no, since those solo miners chose to be targets (and the ones who do not do so actively, do so due to ignorance, and should rather be happy to have that ignorance removed so they can start to behave rationally and be able to take an active stance in the matter instead).
Quote:
You guys are very dangerous people in RL
Not as dangerous as a such proud fundamentalist and mass-murderer as you profess to be.
Quote:
Anyway, I find myself wondering if people who scam in EVE what stops them from doing it in real life?
Morals, most likely. The things that are shaped by the society in which they live — a radically different society than the one that exists within the virtual world of EVE.
Zombatar
Vectors of Virtue
#143 - 2011-10-31 12:00:14 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Zombatar wrote:
Flame me all you want. The beauty of EVE is that you can inflict pain to others in very nasty ways IF YOU CHOSE TO, showing how good/bad you really are in RL. Its not a simple shooter where the whole purpose of the game is the SAME for all participants - kill others.


what do you think you are mining for? Cause everything you can build in this GAME is ships/items for others to go to battle in.

*Edit: post with your main


Fighting honourably in 0.0 for sov or other stuff is no issue IMO, but ganking a miner for LOLZ or scamming in JITA that is a different story IMO. I guess all have their own standard for their life some have a really low one and it shows in EVE.

CAUSING PAIN JUST BECAUSE U CAN SHOWS WHO YOU ARE!!! - there is a big difference if you fight for a goal aka SOV, killing high sec miners is just a quest for SELF GRATIFICATION.

But I don't think such ideas work with the average eve player.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#144 - 2011-10-31 12:01:42 UTC
Chelone wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
[quote=Chelone][quote=Abrazzar]What if I told you that I work as a dentist IRL and that I get off on the pain I inflict?


That you should be euthanized. Not joking.


What I hum to..

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#145 - 2011-10-31 12:05:36 UTC
Zombatar wrote:
Fighting honourably in 0.0 for sov or other stuff is no issue IMO, but ganking a miner for LOLZ or scamming in JITA that is a different story IMO. I guess all have their own standard for their life some have a really low one and it shows in EVE.
Well, your standards are low, that's for sure. Most people grew out of that feudal mindset in… oh… the 16th century or so.
Quote:
CAUSING PAIN JUST BECAUSE U CAN SHOWS WHO YOU ARE!!! - there is a big difference if you fight for a goal aka SOV, killing high sec miners is just a quest for SELF GRATIFICATION.
This brings to mind a great line from Grosse Point Blank: “psychopaths kills for no reason, I kill for money”… the difference is that the script writes realised this was a rather silly statement and made the character immediately withdraw it as part of his journey back into some kind of normality and redemption.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#146 - 2011-10-31 12:10:34 UTC
Zombatar wrote:


Fighting honourably in 0.0 for sov or other stuff is no issue IMO, but ganking a miner for LOLZ or scamming in JITA that is a different story IMO. I guess all have their own standard for their life some have a really low one and it shows in EVE.

CAUSING PAIN JUST BECAUSE U CAN SHOWS WHO YOU ARE!!! - there is a big difference if you fight for a goal aka SOV, killing high sec miners is just a quest for SELF GRATIFICATION.

But I don't think such ideas work with the average eve player.


Answer me this or I am going to mail you with the question.

Lets say you have known one of your corp mates for a great deal of time. They have always been an upstanding corp mate and help you out when you need, are polite on voice coms and are generally pleasent to be around. Would you, having only you in game knowledge of them...

1) Ask them to watch over your kids when your out of town?

2) Invest in a business venture of theirs?

3) Put them as a guardian of your kids in the lack of any other relatives being able to do so (as in over a foster home)?

4) Let them house sit for you?

5) Let them borrow your car?

Please, I really would like to know.

I has all the eve inactivity
Nehmen Geld
#147 - 2011-10-31 12:11:51 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
You don't see people saying "well he shouldn't whine it's part of the life" if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you?


But entering low and null sec isn't like going to the bad part of town. It's more akin to playing hopscotch on the freeway. If you don't pay proper attention then add a blindfold to that simile.
Pent'nor
#148 - 2011-10-31 12:12:43 UTC
This thread reminds me of Caprica. But i am glad that people have fun playing the bad guy, or this game would be rather boring for me.
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#149 - 2011-10-31 12:13:51 UTC
Heh, my RL job encourages me being an *******, so I tend to be pretty nice when playing Eve.


Tippia: Just saying, those miners chose to be targets the same way freighters at the Horn of Africa chose to get boarded by pirates. Hell, going by logic alone, the empires should've been patrolling their hisec belts for years now. I'm deliberately leaving game balance out of the equation here, though.
Aineko Macx
#150 - 2011-10-31 12:17:29 UTC
For the same reason people decided it is ok to massaker virtual characters in fps games.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Doomheim
#151 - 2011-10-31 12:28:23 UTC

Quote:

EDIT: Incidentally, you forgot to mention what you thought about those violent, murderous racketeers in the so called "sporting community". Perhaps you could make a start there.


Professional athletes make for a poor analogy. Most are not doing what they do for "tears". Many are friends off the field, and usually there aren't hard feelings against the other team afterwards (most frustration is directed towards themselves, for not playing well enough). You don't see players rage against other players like some do in Eve unless there have been some sportsmanship issues.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#152 - 2011-10-31 12:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote:
You don't see players rage against other players like some do in Eve unless there have been some sportsmanship issues.
Well, maybe if they stopped complaining about how the rules made them lose and actually showed the trait of sportsmanship called being a good loser, the tears wouldn't be around any more…

The fun thing about people doing it “for tears” is that they're so ridiculously easy to win against. Blink
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#153 - 2011-10-31 12:39:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote:
You don't see players rage against other players like some do in Eve unless there have been some sportsmanship issues.
Well, maybe if they stopped complaining about how the rules made them lose and actually showed the trait of sportsmanship called being a good loser, the tears wouldn't be around any more…

The fun thing about people doing it “for tears” is that they're so ridiculously easy to win against. Blink




That's not true, ganking people has nothing to do with sportsmanship, but it is about the tears (griefing people) which is allowed in the rules as long as it's using the game mechanics.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#154 - 2011-10-31 12:47:35 UTC
Twisted Alice wrote:
That's not true, ganking people has nothing to do with sportsmanship, but it is about the tears (griefing people) which is allowed in the rules as long as it's using the game mechanics.
I think you missed who I was talking about when mentioning being sportsmanlike…

But you do illustrate the other point: how ridiculously easy it is to win against those who harvest tears.

Finally, no, griefing is not allowed, and doing it outisde of the intended game mechanics just makes it not allowed in two different ways.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#155 - 2011-10-31 12:48:42 UTC
Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote:

Quote:

EDIT: Incidentally, you forgot to mention what you thought about those violent, murderous racketeers in the so called "sporting community". Perhaps you could make a start there.


Professional athletes make for a poor analogy. Most are not doing what they do for "tears". Many are friends off the field, and usually there aren't hard feelings against the other team afterwards (most frustration is directed towards themselves, for not playing well enough). You don't see players rage against other players like some do in Eve unless there have been some sportsmanship issues.


What difference does that make? Really, are you saying that it's OK to blow someone's ship up in EVE as long as I don't enjoy it?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#156 - 2011-10-31 13:15:17 UTC
I always found it ironic that the game allows a player to slaughter "innocent" people and get a negative status only to be able to redeem themselves by killing npcs. Whereas I know destroying others is part of the game, it would be an interesting study to see if people would be so quick to pull the trigger if once they start down the negative status path (the dark side), that there would be no possible way to redeem themselves. Since we pod pilots are immortal (and borderline immoral), our past remains a part of us for the rest of our days.

Of course, the whole status does seem a bit daft. I am nearly a perfect -10.00 from killing Guristas' ships over the years. This would translate into the slaughter of thousands, if not millions of people flying those ships since they are not pod pilot capable and thus require larger crews. Yet the Caldari State practically worships me for being a mass murderer...
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#157 - 2011-10-31 13:16:37 UTC
I like how the phrase "not reality, it's a game" gets tossed out here. That only makes sense if you're able to completely dehumanize the other players, or if it was purely NPCs being opposed.

The fact of the matter is, it is reality. There is another person on the other keyboard.......and the quest for the "tears" reveals just exactly how real gankers and griefers play the game. If it truly wasn't "real" to them, they would be just as jubilant at blowing up NPC rats in belts.......just pixels, right?

If the goal is to **** people off and make their game play miserable.....it is real.

And furthermore, if someone can justify "leaving your morals at the door" in a game.....I'm willing to bet they can do that at work, at play, in relationships...whatever, as long as they can find some justification.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Zombatar
Vectors of Virtue
#158 - 2011-10-31 13:18:18 UTC
If you enjoy killing peeps in EVE that have no chance to strike back or at least be able to fight then you should take a loot in the mirror and ask yourself what kind of a person you are?

My issue is with people that take pleasure in the pain of others, especially on those that did absolutely nothing to warrant such action. One is a competitive game where we all fight for something and another is when you feel good to cause pain. The underling idea is the motivation behind your actions.

OP is right to question some behaviour in EVE as a RL issue.
Gradien Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2011-10-31 13:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gradien Gaterau
Abrazzar wrote:
There are no real consequences, so there is no real morality. Games are not real. Do not confuse player behaviour with real person behaviour.


So you spend time on something that isnt real? Do you visit your doctor on a regular basis? Games are real, you meant to say they are virtual instead.
Im running a big group of virtual servers, doesnt mean they arent real.

Player behaviour and real person behaviour are also the same in heart, the fact that one holds concequenses and the other does not has alot of effect on the matter.

Momma said shoot you down..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#160 - 2011-10-31 13:25:28 UTC
Zombatar wrote:
If you enjoy killing peeps in EVE that have no chance to strike back or at least be able to fight then you should take a loot in the mirror and ask yourself what kind of a person you are?
And the answer is: someone who enjoys playing games.
Quote:
My issue is with people that take pleasure in the pain of others […] OP is right to question some behaviour in EVE as a RL issue.
Yes, but the issue here is that some people have such a hard time to make the disconnect between game and reality that they feel pain when their pixels get exploded. They really shouldn't be playing EVE (or any other game for that matter) until they've had that sorted — modern therapy can work wonders at times. For the rest of us, the problem is that there is no way to tell before-hand who suffers from this illness and who doesn't, and even if we did, not shooting them wouldn't really be a solution since the problem is that they're in the game with that illness to begin with.
MeestaPenni wrote:
I like how the phrase "not reality, it's a game" gets tossed out here. That only makes sense if you're able to completely dehumanize the other players, or if it was purely NPCs being opposed.

The fact of the matter is, it is reality. There is another person on the other keyboard.......
…and it is impossible to hurt them unless they are unable to separate game from reality and instead take everything done to them as a real affront.