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[Proposal] Industry, building slots, POS and PI. Integration concept

Author
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#1 - 2013-03-29 23:38:23 UTC
I think this idea have been around in variations before, but thought it might need a fresh cycle.

Basically I would like ccp to once and for all get rid of the old station production slot mechanics. Its getting old and boring.

The optimal way to get a whole range of player activity and game content from a rather simple solution would look something like this.

LINK POS research and production slots directly into Stations.

So players can directly rent the slots and player controlled prices to other players with the station as the middle man.

This way the size of POS in systems would be directly linked to station activity, and actual dynamic prices would be a natural result.

This would also mena that ccp would not need to tweak or change station facilities they would simply be build by players according to needs and price finding mechanics.

Renting to station would ofc demand an office.

Also offices should get a standing based deduction in rent, so grinding standing would have another added dimension.

This way local starsystem composition would start making a direct impact on game activity. More moons would mean more competition on slot prices and thus cheaper research and production. Also smaller would mean potential wars with a clear goal.

Should something like this become real a boost to maximum POS sizes might be needed so POS could have quite a lot of more installations running, to support the capacity needed in the system.

The balance would develop by itself since small number of moons would mean bigger POS in system and thus potentially bring higher traffic in fuels and components giving some new targets to potential aggression.

More details can be added to this idea, but the basics is the above. I believe its something we really need, to also make Null industry really interesting and lucrative. Since a system like this could make null interesting for new types of renters or allies.

Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#2 - 2013-03-30 00:17:38 UTC
Well if we can overcome the financial hurdles, considering how heavily the entire market system is based on the already established facts, perhaps there should then be talks of how to limit CCP's manhour investments and how this would benefit the growth of the game as a whole.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#3 - 2013-03-30 00:22:15 UTC
A POS overhaul is something that is strongly supported, and I think even ccp is seriously focused on that now. This is a concept that would change many things, with rather little complexity change to the backend of the game.

A lot of architecture to a system like this seem to have already been on the table in the early code. Something that shows on "dead functions" in the Station and standing functions.

Once the link between POS, PI and STATION is implemented a lot of potential new aspects will be a lot easier to add to the game. Thus a feature like this could help a lot on ccp manhours in the long run.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#4 - 2013-03-30 02:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
A POS overhaul is something that is strongly supported, and I think even ccp is seriously focused on that now. This is a concept that would change many things, with rather little complexity change to the backend of the game.

A lot of architecture to a system like this seem to have already been on the table in the early code. Something that shows on "dead functions" in the Station and standing functions.

Once the link between POS, PI and STATION is implemented a lot of potential new aspects will be a lot easier to add to the game. Thus a feature like this could help a lot on ccp manhours in the long run.


Yes, it would.

Edit:
I heard some one say interbus
I said Storyline, so this could really help this game
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#5 - 2013-03-30 02:20:43 UTC
A logical step that many might really appreciate would be creating a link between PI and POS.

Just something as simple as being able to export materials from planets remotely to your own POS, that would then again make it possible for corp members to access the materials.

Some rather awesome POS,PI and STATION networks could result from functionality moving in this direction.

I would also find it worth considering to let corp members or alliance members remote control planet activity from within POS anchored at moons of the specific planet PI.

This would create a lot of new potential roles, that could then in future ccp work get new skills, or tools.

If PI to POS and POS to POS moving of items could be automated and remote access, sort of like an player interbus system, then the next logical step could be creating contract types that temporarily granted access through POS shields for a specific player and shiptype (industrials, mining ships and similar)


With temporary access functionality, this could then easy move into null sec activity for rental and standing functionality.

Since the Aggression of automated systems like POS could be added to ships also. So parked ships could also have a simple autoaggression functionality. (maybe even limited script based)

With autoaggression functions, and new fleet function like CONVOYS would suddenly be an option.

Which brings another aspect of this RELINQUISH control to fleet leader, or wing leader etc. Thus making afk a sort of semi-npc state. The skills would limit how many player ships could be controlled on behalf of players. The interface would be something simplified like that for drones.

So again many natural progression options from simple initial changes.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-03-30 06:02:26 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
LINK POS research and production slots directly into Stations.


The whole POS system needs to be redefined.

POSes are usually corp assets and really need to be associated with the corp office (like a POS section). There can monitor the POS and handle the blueprints/fuel/manfacturing/research/invention from that UI.

Doesn't make sense to have corp offices when they're not used for such activities. EvE needs more of an unified UI not more screens to get lost in. 1920x1080 monitor filled with boxes. :shudder:

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#7 - 2013-04-05 17:55:44 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
LINK POS research and production slots directly into Stations.


The whole POS system needs to be redefined.

POSes are usually corp assets and really need to be associated with the corp office (like a POS section). There can monitor the POS and handle the blueprints/fuel/manfacturing/research/invention from that UI.

Doesn't make sense to have corp offices when they're not used for such activities. EvE needs more of an unified UI not more screens to get lost in. 1920x1080 monitor filled with boxes. :shudder:


A really nice idea would be to add a variation of interbus system. So you could move equipment from station to POS when at the station, if you had needed roles.

The POS would have Rat like convoys, that would be "owned" by POS owner. Sort of like lost/left drones. If shot down the interbus would be impossible, until respawn.

The remote admin of certain things from station to POS would be nice , but it should be with a connection delay. 2-5 min to initiate contact. The need to go manually to the POS should not be removed. Also you should not be able to move between facilities. The remote would send the commands, but they would not be initiated until the timer is completed. A bit like anchoring, so that mechanism is somewhere in the code for reuse I would assume..

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2013-04-05 19:29:03 UTC
I'm a firm believer that we should allow planetary networks to have manufacturing and research slots that can be used from the building types on the networks.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#9 - 2013-04-05 19:42:26 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I'm a firm believer that we should allow planetary networks to have manufacturing and research slots that can be used from the building types on the networks.


I think slots planet side makes perfect sense. Just now we can not attack planet structures, so a balance would be needed.

Basically like POS modules, but with half the effectiveness (speed). To not compete with POS that risk aggression.

This would make sure stations dont run out of potential slots. There would be a need to add fuel of some sort or the benefits would be to high. I have suggested elsewhere about changes to PI, and adding need for populations, like marines, laborers and scientists etc. Using a mechanic similar to over heating, work force exhausted, labor overworked state, that would be fixed importing new labor, recreation etc.. basically creating boostings buffs debuffs mechnics..

Also I suggested changing storage limits to pure transport capacity limits, so you could work from buffers and would not worry about overflow, but only on upgrading the lines and moving manually at a labor over heating cost "overtime" basically.

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#10 - 2013-04-05 20:33:47 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
I'm a firm believer that we should allow planetary networks to have manufacturing and research slots that can be used from the building types on the networks.


I think slots planet side makes perfect sense. Just now we can not attack planet structures, so a balance would be needed.

Basically like POS modules, but with half the effectiveness (speed). To not compete with POS that risk aggression.

This would make sure stations dont run out of potential slots. There would be a need to add fuel of some sort or the benefits would be to high. I have suggested elsewhere about changes to PI, and adding need for populations, like marines, laborers and scientists etc. Using a mechanic similar to over heating, work force exhausted, labor overworked state, that would be fixed importing new labor, recreation etc.. basically creating boostings buffs debuffs mechnics..

Also I suggested changing storage limits to pure transport capacity limits, so you could work from buffers and would not worry about overflow, but only on upgrading the lines and moving manually at a labor over heating cost "overtime" basically.



If you haven't already, you might want to look at this topic in the Assembly hall.

It covers allot of what your talking about with regards to PI.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#11 - 2013-04-05 20:43:44 UTC
That is a very nice collection of ideas.. but really as two step pointed out huge complicated solutions wont really help..

Simpler ideas in short presentation, that inspire CCP or gives solutions that work somewhat within the current framework and code..

If you shorten things down and do smaller part demos, I think you would get further..

What I just suggested in the above is an example, I am asking for things that only need a days work of code. Change container sizes in PI installations to infinite or very large, and put the bottleneck in the launch pad at 25000 m3. This is hardly any change, but the potential is huge.

Then adding a feature that already exist in weapon, give it a bit different graphics and change the names. Again this is very easy. The buff/debuff is also already partly in the game, and features ccp is already working on. Boosts from DUST is already announced. Adding a state to an item is not that hard, and if its function is basically the same as using nanopaste its hardly extensive code.

What you ask for is the full developer team to create a whole new feature from scratch. That rarely happen in any game.

You vision is rather awesome though.