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Annoyances with PI Market
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trianna Ekanon
The Spawning Pool
#1 - 2011-10-25 22:55:24 UTC
While I can respect that because its completely unprofitable to make Mechanical Parts and Consumer Electronics, the prices of those two items are starting to rise again, I'm annoyed that obviously robotics now has to begin to decline ever closer to being unprofitable to make.

Only in eve does the end product get cheaper because inputs got more expensive.

-_-
BornToDieAnotherDay
Tarazed Technology
#2 - 2011-10-25 23:25:40 UTC
I think it's most likely a result of all the stockpiles that were bought up with the announcement of POCO being dumped back on the market, where as the inputs still haven't fixed.

Although tbh the PI market will be up in the air for quite awhile.
Tally Isk
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-26 13:19:04 UTC
You seem to be only looking at robotics value in comparison with P3 input values done on a high-sec factory planet, while disregarding the amount of robotics that comes into empire via nullsec and w-space, where M3 values are a big issue. Yes, I might be able to get more isk for the consumer electronics and mech parts, but it also means I have to haul a heck of a lot more through hostile space while fighting lifespan and mass values of wormholes. So, you get a bit of a glut of robotics coming into empire which devalues it in comparison to its inputs.

And yes, as BornToDie mentioned, the robotics (and pretty much all P1) prices have fluctuated a lot due to the POCO speculation.
Xintri Ra'Virr
Yamaguchi-Gumi
#4 - 2011-10-31 07:55:01 UTC
Yeah PI is waste of time, don't do it.

120m per day that i make from PI is worthelss, definitly not worth of 30 minutes of clicking and hauling.
Via Shivon
#5 - 2011-10-31 09:56:37 UTC
Xintri Ra'Virr wrote:
Yeah PI is waste of time, don't do it.

120m per day that i make from PI is worthelss, definitly not worth of 30 minutes of clicking and hauling.



lol - NEVER

or...with what 15 chars?
learn to use excel!
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-31 11:53:41 UTC
Via Shivon wrote:
Xintri Ra'Virr wrote:
Yeah PI is waste of time, don't do it.

120m per day that i make from PI is worthelss, definitly not worth of 30 minutes of clicking and hauling.



lol - NEVER

or...with what 15 chars?
learn to use excel!

Oh fook. excel is the most powerful hull in the game. a skilled excel pilot can solo entire alliances......

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-31 12:35:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Via Shivon wrote:
Xintri Ra'Virr wrote:
Yeah PI is waste of time, don't do it.

120m per day that i make from PI is worthelss, definitly not worth of 30 minutes of clicking and hauling.



lol - NEVER

or...with what 15 chars?
learn to use excel!


15 characters in 30 minutes?

Realistically, if you're really pressing the issue and max your skills you can make 25-30mil per day per character if you have optimal chains in nulsec. So 120m a day would be 4 characters with max skills.

However, that doesn't take 30 minutes. And your stuff is in nulsec. These 120m figures just come from people that a) don't know math, b) have a warped perception of time c) assume maximum extraction without any missed cycles and d) don't count hauling stuff to a market and selling it as time spent.

I suppose you could run a bunch of factory planets 1 jump out of Jita and buy the input from buy orders. Some P3->P4 chains have a markup of 7-8%, so if you have a few bil to invest upfront and a freighter + pilot you don't need elsewhere then, sure you can earn 120m a day with 30ish minutes hauling and clicking. But really, at that point you're really just trading and not doing PI anymore.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-31 18:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakach
I'm making 20-25mil/day with only this char, in high sec, with no extractors, and only 5 planets, and only lvl 4 PWG.

Since this is my main, I still have some skills I want to get before I get my two other char slots used for PI extractor alts.

edit:

Base cost of input: ~3,520,000/hour
Market value of output: ~4,600,000/hour

These are conservative values, as I typically get input for cheaper and my output sells higher, but I did some rounding down to keep it conservative. Broker Fee and Sale tax also eat a bit into the profit, but it's a decent margin, so small percentages don't matter much. I don't even care about PI taxes.

I do have to baby sit them as they need a refill every 36-48 hours.

I also need to keep about 600mil worth of input stocked because its price fluctuates a lot and I have to buy cheap.

Once I get home, I will use my API program to tally all PI taxes and input costs and output sales for the past month.

edit2:
I didn't think about the resale value of my inputs. Really, my profit for processing is the difference between the raw materials market value and my processed market value.

Another thing though is I am removing the raw materials from the market, so I'm increasing demand.

Another.. another thing is the processed output has a more stable value and a higher value density, so I can haul more profit per load.

It's a bit complex really.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2011-10-31 22:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Before the recent price hike (I've not sold any PI in a while) I was making 20m P2 per hisec factory planet per day, supported by 3 w-space (-1.0 sec) extraction alts producing P1. So 21 planets = 100m per day = 3b per month.

The hardest part was waiting for a C5-to-hisec wormhole (D792) so I could bring a freighter in to move P1 to hisec.

I've since dropped to 1 alt doing PI.