These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[proposal] limit gang links to a single grid

First post
Author
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#281 - 2013-01-24 14:46:41 UTC
This is one of the most upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall but it didn't get much from their meeting:

"Seleene brought up the topic of off-grid boosting, and Fozzie responded that technical limitations were the only reason it continued to exist. Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle. Elise emphasized that while off-grid boosting was an issue, just the simple way that bonuses are applied in a fleet is flawed."

http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_December_2012.pdf

Is Veritas actually assigned to fix this or is this something he may, or may not do, in his spare time?

Can anyone at csm at least ask this? If he is not specifically assigned to correct this will anyone be assigned to correct this? Some follow up would be appreciated.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#282 - 2013-01-29 06:39:53 UTC
Just dropping this in: simply restricting boosts to a grid can possibly not deliver desired effect. There's not much help if said booster sits 300 km away from you rather than at the safespot. This can make little difference in big engagements and probably in smaller ones as well.
Xygatrix
Koukaku Kidoutai.
#283 - 2013-01-31 01:38:26 UTC
Agreed. Ridiculous that that a ship can sit off invulnerable and undetectable (with ECCM and small sig radius) while providing massive bonuses.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#284 - 2013-01-31 05:39:47 UTC
Cearain wrote:
This is one of the most upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall but it didn't get much from their meeting:

"Seleene brought up the topic of off-grid boosting, and Fozzie responded that technical limitations were the only reason it continued to exist. Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle. Elise emphasized that while off-grid boosting was an issue, just the simple way that bonuses are applied in a fleet is flawed."

http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_December_2012.pdf

Is Veritas actually assigned to fix this or is this something he may, or may not do, in his spare time?

Can anyone at csm at least ask this? If he is not specifically assigned to correct this will anyone be assigned to correct this? Some follow up would be appreciated.


Unfortunately offgrid boosting is not a gamebreaker. Despite what some people may think. If it was a game breaker there would be teams assigned to it, scrounging up as many ideas and shitcode that they can throw at the problem until something sticks and refine that into something that is workable.

If the problem rates one person (That being said, that person IS Veritas). Then the problem is either nigh unsolvable or quite down the list. From the sound of the quote I would say Boosting mechanics are close to the single thread node problem in terms of difficulty.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#285 - 2013-01-31 11:11:29 UTC
I have deleted an obvious troll post from here.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#286 - 2013-01-31 18:04:53 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Just dropping this in: simply restricting boosts to a grid can possibly not deliver desired effect. There's not much help if said booster sits 300 km away from you rather than at the safespot. This can make little difference in big engagements and probably in smaller ones as well.


Having the command ship on grid 300km off would be a poor choice as it would be quickly chased off or caught and tackled by frigates and other light support burning towards it or simply being slingshotted by a prober. The safest place for on-grid boosters would be with the rest of the fleet, stuffed full of buffering modules and pre-locked by the reppers in the fleet.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#287 - 2013-01-31 19:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Super spikinator wrote:
Cearain wrote:
This is one of the most upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall but it didn't get much from their meeting:

"Seleene brought up the topic of off-grid boosting, and Fozzie responded that technical limitations were the only reason it continued to exist. Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that “one day Veritas will come up to me and say ‘hey I fixed off-grid boosting’”, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle. Elise emphasized that while off-grid boosting was an issue, just the simple way that bonuses are applied in a fleet is flawed."

http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_December_2012.pdf

Is Veritas actually assigned to fix this or is this something he may, or may not do, in his spare time?

Can anyone at csm at least ask this? If he is not specifically assigned to correct this will anyone be assigned to correct this? Some follow up would be appreciated.


Unfortunately offgrid boosting is not a gamebreaker. Despite what some people may think. If it was a game breaker there would be teams assigned to it, scrounging up as many ideas and shitcode that they can throw at the problem until something sticks and refine that into something that is workable.

If the problem rates one person (That being said, that person IS Veritas). Then the problem is either nigh unsolvable or quite down the list. From the sound of the quote I would say Boosting mechanics are close to the single thread node problem in terms of difficulty.



EVE is such a big game that its true no current problem "breaks" the whole game. But based on the player feedback in this thread, this problem is causing the most damage to the game. I am not aware of a specific mechanic fix that has more support from the players.

Yes lots of players say "fix null sec sov" but they don't give any specific ideas as to what should be done. Forcing boosters to at least be on the battle grid is pretty specific.

We really don't have any idea what the techincial problem is. So its hard to speculate on what other options might resolve the issue and not be so technically difficult.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#288 - 2013-01-31 19:21:08 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Just dropping this in: simply restricting boosts to a grid can possibly not deliver desired effect. There's not much help if said booster sits 300 km away from you rather than at the safespot. This can make little difference in big engagements and probably in smaller ones as well.



If the ship is on grid you can see it and decide if you still want to take the fight. You can't warp 300km away from someone.

bottom line: Forcing ships to be on grid will solve the problem.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#289 - 2013-02-03 04:48:39 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Just dropping this in: simply restricting boosts to a grid can possibly not deliver desired effect. There's not much help if said booster sits 300 km away from you rather than at the safespot. This can make little difference in big engagements and probably in smaller ones as well.



If the ship is on grid you can see it and decide if you still want to take the fight. You can't warp 300km away from someone.

bottom line: Forcing ships to be on grid will solve the problem.


Learn more grid-fu. It is possible to make a grid that exists in 2 places, with a section between them that is not on grid. warp your booster to the pocket once the enemy has commited, and hide defense ships in the off-grid section between.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

paritybit
Solarmark
#290 - 2013-03-01 01:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: paritybit
It's good to see that after more than a year away from the game and almost a year and a half since the original post this topic is still getting hits. Good that it's getting attention, bad that it's not yet solved.

To those claiming that broken grids and grid-fu mean this problem shouldn't be solved, I say those problems need to be fixed as well -- two wrongs don't make a right, and they certainly don't make a good feature.

And to those claiming that it would dumb down the game if boosters had to choose their links, I counter that it's quite the opposite: requiring a choice makes the game more interesting because you can't have it all. If everyone could have it all, they will and that 'all' will be a sad uniformity.

I tried to keep the original post simple and avoid overly elaborate solutions which should be CCP's domain; but maybe I oversimplified a little. The problem as I see it is that boosters are supposed to be the leaders and they affect (sometimes dramatically) the combat in a very direct way but they are not vulnerable in a realistic scenario (that is, without a probing alt in every system). Currently a booster doesn't have to make choices, just load up on boosters and call it good.

Maybe a better solution than limiting them to a single grid is having some kind of direct visual sensor-range communication to initiate the bonus and then allowing that to "degrade" over time (read: expire after some short time period spent off-grid from the booster). This solves the problem of boosts disappearing when you jump from one system to the next. It solves the problem of splitting a fleet (sometimes the booster will jump with the fleet but not warp so as to bring up links as soon as possible).
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#291 - 2013-03-01 16:08:43 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Just dropping this in: simply restricting boosts to a grid can possibly not deliver desired effect. There's not much help if said booster sits 300 km away from you rather than at the safespot. This can make little difference in big engagements and probably in smaller ones as well.



If the ship is on grid you can see it and decide if you still want to take the fight. You can't warp 300km away from someone.

bottom line: Forcing ships to be on grid will solve the problem.


Learn more grid-fu. It is possible to make a grid that exists in 2 places, with a section between them that is not on grid. warp your booster to the pocket once the enemy has commited, and hide defense ships in the off-grid section between.


Forcing ships on grid = problem solved.

The Grid fu concern is highly overrated and a last ditch attempt by some to justify this broken mechanic.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#292 - 2013-03-02 07:07:24 UTC
Supported, but only on the condition that my semi-related proposal is also reviewed; the lack of availability for some mindlinks has made some them very, very expensive, especially the mining one. This is caused by an utter lack of availability, making some of them as uncommon as an officer module! There needs to be more ways (ie. more missions where they are given as rewards, or to have them drop from deadspace sites) to get these links if those who use them are going to be exposed as this new proposal suggests.

If this were approved, and mindlink availability isn't revised, I fear that mindlinks could become effectively worthless due to excessive cost, used only by the very richest of players.
Kelleris
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#293 - 2013-03-07 16:22:44 UTC
paritybit wrote:


I appreciate that comment, but I think we should leave it to CCP to decide what is difficult because they're the guys writing the code. If they say it's impossible or would take months of work for a potentially small benefit, then I'm content to let them work on something else.


That is something I don't understand. CCP keeps saying its super-difficult to write code to figure out if the booster ship is on grid with you, but it seems to me there are two separate (but possibly the same thing behind the curtains) things that EVE does right now that determine if somone is on grid with you. They are visibility on overview (yes, I know what cloaking devices are) and the appearance of health bars on your fleet watch list. Seems to me if someone could have a visible healthbar on your watchlist, then they could give you a command link boost. I would assume the code to determine if someone is on-grid with you is already there, based on these two things.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#294 - 2013-03-10 09:18:56 UTC
Signed. I can't believe people are defending OGB links. They are so obviously over powered they are absurd and pure pay to win. No skill involved, just park and forget.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Zangorus
Live Adult Entertainment
Federal Krab Office
#295 - 2013-03-16 11:56:37 UTC
Signed, Been wanting this since 2011

Like my comment and recieve 1 million isk ingame!

Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#296 - 2013-03-18 11:35:04 UTC
Quick fix: Remove the Command Processor module - the one that allows you to fit extra links to a ship

Bye bye off-grid linky strategic cruisers

Forces all non Fleet Command ships to only have one Warfare Link; If you want more than three bonuses then you need the Leadership chain in place with Command Ships at each level.
Samuel Cole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2013-03-18 21:57:33 UTC
Anything that encourages boosters to fly with gangs is a good thing. Even a tier 1 battlecruiser roam can benefit from three boosters by making sure that the fleet, wing, and squadron commanders are sporting one ganglink a piece. Deciding which three bonuses each squadron needs to receive makes structuring fleets a more interesting exercise.

Similarly, when commanding a fleet, you get to choose between primarying the logistics, the ewar, or the booster. That's another interesting decision, and interesting decisions are good for gameplay.

+1 to this suggestion.
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#298 - 2013-03-20 08:06:23 UTC
well how about dropping the stats on the command modules, then give the fleet boosting command ships a role bonus that would make them 300% more effective when on grid. That would also give the commandship class descriptions more sense.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#299 - 2013-04-05 14:36:37 UTC
Any news on if ccp decided to assign someone to fix this?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Pax Thar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#300 - 2013-04-12 18:32:09 UTC
signed.