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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

First post First post
Author
Tiber Ibis
The Paratwa Ka
#1021 - 2013-03-28 03:49:19 UTC
Tiber Ibis wrote:
Just reading over the dev blog again and I am a little confused regarding one inconsistency I've noticed.

For the Revelation the new skill requirements to simply train the Amarr Dreadnought skill do not include the Jump Drive Operation skills, which are listed as tertiary skills.

For the Archon the new skill requirement to simply train Amarr Carrier include all the Jump Drive Operation skills, ie they are no longer tertiary skills.

Before I understood that tertiary skills were not needed to train up the skill, although are needed to actually fly the ship. So is it the case under the new skill requirement that the Jump Drive skills will be now needed to simply train the Amarr Carrier, although for some reason not needed for training Amarr Dreadnought?

Seems to be an inconsistency and so I'm sure this must be a mistake.


I just wondered if anyone could clarify on this if possible. Anyone have any ideas if this is a mistake or intentional by CCP?
nomad Raholan
What Corp is it
#1022 - 2013-03-31 16:11:48 UTC
These questions have probably been asked and answered but I am unable to find it..
With the changes to skill requirements for command ships in the upcoming expansion, will ALL command ships now receive a link bonus or will Warfare link bonuses remain as they are now?
Does having to train all 4 warfare skills to lvl 5 as a requirement mean the 3% to gang links on fleet command ship bonuses will refer to all racial links when fitted or will they remain faction specific?
Are we actually losing 4 command ships? we currently have 4 Fleet command ships and 4 Field command ships with very different roles, fitting options and bonuses.

.,.,.,Disagree with me if you feel the need.,.,., .,.,.,Right or Wrong.,.,.,.  .,.,.,My opinion is free and mine to own.,.,.,.

Fluffy Sheep
Contra Operative Knights
#1023 - 2013-04-01 00:18:50 UTC
Guru'TugginMyPudha
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1024 - 2013-04-01 11:16:55 UTC
I'm sorry if this has been informed already but i'll ask anyway:

Can anyone tell me the official date for this "racial changes" patch ?
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1025 - 2013-04-01 15:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Destructor1792
As a few others have pointed out, some of the tree changes don't make sense.

i.e.

Recons - Why cloaking lvl 4 and especially for combat recons which don't even fit a cloak? and why the destroyer skill needed?

Fix:
Force recon - Remove destroyer 3 and replace with cov-op 3. Keep the cloaking skill as this is makes sense for this type of ship.

Combat recon - remove cloaking 4 and replace with something more suitable (why have cloaking 4 on a ship that doesn't even fit the damn thing?!?!)
Remove destroyer 3 and replace with HAC 3 or frigate 4

HACS:

Again with the destroyer req!! Remove and replace with racial Battlecruiser 3

HICS:

and again with the destroyer req!! Remove and replace with HAC 3

Command Ships:

Were you lot sniffing toilet seats on this one???

Link specialist 4 & leadership 5 fine, but why the other 5 warfare skills to 5??
Again, look at the ships & the bonus the warfare link module gets and just make just that one to 5.

i.e. Minny version require Skirmish warfare 5 and not all the others!

REMOVE destroyer 3 and up the Cruiser skill from 3 to 4

The ONLY tree which should really have the destroyer skill in is "Destroyers" (obviously) and then the Interdictor which is the natural T2 progression for the destroyer class.

Stop putting the damn destroyer skill in everything else when it's not even needed or has anything to do with the progression path for the other ships.

Personally, I see the natural progression through the non Indy ships as:

Frig -> Cruiser -> Battlecruiser -> Battleship -> Capitals
and
Destroyer

specialised ships as

Destroyer -> Interdictor
Frig -> Specialised Frigs (cov-op, Inty, AF)
Cruiser -> Battlecruiser -> Specialised Cruiser/BC Ships (HACS, HICS, LOGI's, T3's, CS, etc)
Battleship -> Specialised BS (marauders, B-ops, Pirate Faction BS)

Even like this, you can see destroyers as the odd man out as after interdictors you don't really need that book for anything else.

**edited bit**

Oh, I read somewhere that the next Expansion is due for release at the beginning of June (could be wrong though)

Not fired a shot in anger since 2011.... Trigger finger is starting to get somewhat itchy.......

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1026 - 2013-04-01 18:02:57 UTC
Destructor1792 wrote:
stuff



You do know that Racial Cruiser requires Racial Destroyer 3, right?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1027 - 2013-04-01 18:46:59 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Destructor1792 wrote:
stuff



You do know that Racial Cruiser requires Racial Destroyer 3, right?


My guess is badly executed april's fool post.
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1028 - 2013-04-01 20:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Destructor1792
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You do know that Racial Cruiser requires Racial Destroyer 3, right?


I'm glad you read the part where I put:

Destructor1792 wrote:
Stop putting the damn destroyer skill in everything else when it's not even needed or has anything to do with the progression path for the other ships.


And yes, that does include removing it from the Racial Cruisers as well.

Why the need to even break down the destroyer skill into Racial ones only screams of CCP getting ready to Implementing more future changes so every Ship class is eventually broken into Racial Skills

I.E. Amarr Command Ship skillbook, Gallente Marauder skillbook, Minmatar Logistics skillbook, Caldari Heavy Assault Ship skillbook.. Getting the picture yet?

or to break it down even simpler - How to pad out & extend the game life to keep newer players coming back for more after the skill change goes live by making the time it takes to get into a new set of ships even longer.

Doesn't take a genius to work out what they're doing... Or maybe it does RollLol

Not fired a shot in anger since 2011.... Trigger finger is starting to get somewhat itchy.......

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#1029 - 2013-04-01 21:35:17 UTC

The new skill prerequisites are basically for injecting the skill book, not flying the ship. If you already have the skill trained to fly it then the skill is already in your head, regardless of if you have the new prerequisites or not.

For example; with the changes racial destroyer 3 will be a prerequisite for the racial cruiser skill. currently you only need racial frigate 4 to train the racial cruiser skill. So if when the patch comes you have racial cruiser 4 trained but do not have any destroyer skills trained you will not lose the racial cruiser skill, it is already in your head. The new prerequisite skill is for injecting the skill book not flying the ship. as long as you have the racial cruiser skill trained you will still be able to fly cruisers, even if you do not have the destroyer skill trained.

Like wise with the command ships. with the changes you will all the leadership skills at 5 to inject the command ship skillbook. But if you already have the skillbook injected the new prerequisites do not affect you.

The same with the changes to the carrier skills. If you currently fly a carrier in W-space and do not have any jump drive skills trained beyond the bare minimum, the new prerequisite skills will not affect you if you already have the carrier skill trained. thge new prerequisites only apply to player looking to inject the skill books.

My advice to take advantage of these changes are, if you have a skillbook you want to inject/train where you currently meet the prerequisites but will not meet the new prerequisites after the change, get it injected and trained to at least 1 before the change takes effect.

For the record the summer expansion is Odyssey, scheduled for June 4th. I would think everyone here would know that by now, but it seems some do not.

You got two months left to be ready for it.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#1030 - 2013-04-01 21:37:59 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Destructor1792 wrote:
stuff



You do know that Racial Cruiser requires Racial Destroyer 3, right?

the skill book does, the ships do not. If you already have racial cruiser trained, the prerequisite means nothing for you.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1031 - 2013-04-02 00:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Destructor1792 wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You do know that Racial Cruiser requires Racial Destroyer 3, right?


I'm glad you read the part where I put:

Destructor1792 wrote:
Stop putting the damn destroyer skill in everything else when it's not even needed or has anything to do with the progression path for the other ships.


And yes, that does include removing it from the Racial Cruisers as well.

Why the need to even break down the destroyer skill into Racial ones only screams of CCP getting ready to Implementing more future changes so every Ship class is eventually broken into Racial Skills

I.E. Amarr Command Ship skillbook, Gallente Marauder skillbook, Minmatar Logistics skillbook, Caldari Heavy Assault Ship skillbook.. Getting the picture yet?

or to break it down even simpler - How to pad out & extend the game life to keep newer players coming back for more after the skill change goes live by making the time it takes to get into a new set of ships even longer.

Doesn't take a genius to work out what they're doing... Or maybe it does RollLol

Or it could just be that the BC group simply had to many hulls making the skill give proportionally more benefit than they felt it should. Splitting that alone leaves destroyers the odd man out which didn't make sense. Even that aside we're only talking about levels 1-3 which are combined less that frigate 4 alone making advancing in the tree faster. So the hulls you are complaining about having destroyers included in are getting a beneficial trade.

The rest is just you extrapolating things that aren't there using the slippery slope fallacy.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1032 - 2013-04-02 08:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Chi'Nane T'Kal
Destructor1792 wrote:


Doesn't take a genius to work out what they're doing... Or maybe it does RollLol


OR maybe it does take someone a lot LESS than a genius to not spot the difference between T1 and T2 ships and the respective skills.

One silly rant made you look a bit stupid (in your defense i even assumed an attempted april's fool). Beating the dead horse again makes you look like a moron, especially with that comment in the end...
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1033 - 2013-04-03 22:00:45 UTC
Not related to ships, but related to T2.
Any plans to change T2 turrets from being dependent of lower-sized T2 turrets? This is main issue, why people choosing missiles, rather than guns - faster to train. ALOT faster. And by ALOT, I mean, about a month of difference.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1034 - 2013-04-04 11:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
Edit: nvm, found what I was looking for.
nomad Raholan
What Corp is it
#1035 - 2013-04-05 17:33:12 UTC
Fluffy Sheep wrote:
Thanks.. Exactly what I was looking for.
I was hoping the changes would give each faction a bonus to all links as the new training requirements suggest but it seems it is not to be..

.,.,.,Disagree with me if you feel the need.,.,., .,.,.,Right or Wrong.,.,.,.  .,.,.,My opinion is free and mine to own.,.,.,.

Eric Agerwal
Cryosoft
#1036 - 2013-04-07 17:03:42 UTC
I was talking with another player ingame about the upcoming changes to freighters and he pointed out the upcoming Primary/Secondary Skills seemed pointless... the secondary alone say it all... Well spotted Psi Goa!
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#1037 - 2013-04-08 20:27:15 UTC
Destructor1792 wrote:
As a few others have pointed out, some of the tree changes don't make sense.

i.e.

Recons - Why cloaking lvl 4 and especially for combat recons which don't even fit a cloak? and why the destroyer skill needed?

Fix:
Force recon - Remove destroyer 3 and replace with cov-op 3. Keep the cloaking skill as this is makes sense for this type of ship.

Combat recon - remove cloaking 4 and replace with something more suitable (why have cloaking 4 on a ship that doesn't even fit the damn thing?!?!)
Remove destroyer 3 and replace with HAC 3 or frigate 4

HACS:

Again with the destroyer req!! Remove and replace with racial Battlecruiser 3

HICS:

and again with the destroyer req!! Remove and replace with HAC 3

Command Ships:

Were you lot sniffing toilet seats on this one???

Link specialist 4 & leadership 5 fine, but why the other 5 warfare skills to 5??
Again, look at the ships & the bonus the warfare link module gets and just make just that one to 5.

i.e. Minny version require Skirmish warfare 5 and not all the others!

REMOVE destroyer 3 and up the Cruiser skill from 3 to 4

The ONLY tree which should really have the destroyer skill in is "Destroyers" (obviously) and then the Interdictor which is the natural T2 progression for the destroyer class.

Stop putting the damn destroyer skill in everything else when it's not even needed or has anything to do with the progression path for the other ships.

Personally, I see the natural progression through the non Indy ships as:

Frig -> Cruiser -> Battlecruiser -> Battleship -> Capitals
and
Destroyer

specialised ships as

Destroyer -> Interdictor
Frig -> Specialised Frigs (cov-op, Inty, AF)
Cruiser -> Battlecruiser -> Specialised Cruiser/BC Ships (HACS, HICS, LOGI's, T3's, CS, etc)
Battleship -> Specialised BS (marauders, B-ops, Pirate Faction BS)

Even like this, you can see destroyers as the odd man out as after interdictors you don't really need that book for anything else.

**edited bit**

Oh, I read somewhere that the next Expansion is due for release at the beginning of June (could be wrong though)


Well, since CCP is a real company, and needs real money to survive. Silly things like these are made to make you have longer skill que :)
Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1038 - 2013-04-10 00:19:50 UTC
Looking at the possibilties for Exploration ships has been frustrating.

Just to use the Imicus as an example...what good are the bonuses if the ship isn't capabable of working a site offensively or defensively. It needs drone bandwith and damage bonuses to help it along, probably more slots too. Feeling similar about any medium ring options.

Dislike that the answer is always bring an 'alt'

52 pages or so makes keeping up or seeing reasonable replies here tuff too.

Slugging along.

E
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1039 - 2013-04-12 19:37:53 UTC
Eodp Ellecon wrote:
Looking at the possibilties for Exploration ships has been frustrating.

Just to use the Imicus as an example...what good are the bonuses if the ship isn't capabable of working a site offensively or defensively. It needs drone bandwith and damage bonuses to help it along, probably more slots too. Feeling similar about any medium ring options.

Dislike that the answer is always bring an 'alt'

52 pages or so makes keeping up or seeing reasonable replies here tuff too.

Slugging along.

E

Switch ships?
Lord KesH
Incarnation of Evil
Transgress
#1040 - 2013-04-15 23:28:05 UTC
So being confused of nature, I will ask here.

I have Destroyers and BC skills to V already.

What do I need to get maximum out of this change?

Will I need all Frigs and Cruisers to V or will less do?

Sorry for being confused :)