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(Moderators, Please Lock Thread) To those miners and missioners who wish to be left alone.

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Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#41 - 2011-10-31 02:58:27 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:
Henry Haphorn wrote:
This is to all the players out there who think that just because they are mining or missioning, that they are entitled to some kind of immunity from the griefers who gank them.

play another game.


There you go :D

And I truly wonder what would happen if they did.


Partly why we got an apology is my guess

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#42 - 2011-10-31 02:59:21 UTC
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Justin Credulent wrote:
Quote:
Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship?

...stuff said...


Under normal situations, yes. It's the criminal's fault. But having an entire alliance such as Goonswarm running around ganking miners (while paying others to do the same and announcing it ahead of time) is not a normal situation. Neither was Hulkageddon. Yet players decided to not properly tank their ships during these events. My argument still stands.

Edited for grammar.


Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that we were suddenly talking about Hulkageddon, since the OP made no such mention of it and only made reference to said "normal circumstances". Roll

(BTW, Announcing that you're going to rob someone's house also does not abrogate your own criminal responsibility.)

Quote:
This man get's it.

There ARE new players coming in all the time. How many LEAVE because they have next to no chance at getting a decent start. The bittervets have AMPLE opportunity to play Eve - elsewhere. They PREFER to sit in highsec killing noobs (or supporting it) and then justify it with "This is Eve" bullshit. Pure and simple.

If we keep catering only for the bandy-kneed old men of Eve it will become "Bittervets Retirement Home version 4".


If CCP keeps catering only to the bittervets, then that's the only people who will play. And, in reality, the "bittervets" are a very small minority of EVE: Fact: The total average SP for characters on EVE is around 10-14 million. That's how many months of play-time...? 10?

Another Interesting Fact: There are 20,000 trial accounts created each month.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#43 - 2011-10-31 03:00:35 UTC
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:


Partly why we got an apology is my guess


Those people left mostly because of how the first release of Incarna was handled. Way different from what we're talking about here.

Adapt or Die
Vricrolatious
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#44 - 2011-10-31 03:01:18 UTC
Justin Credulent wrote:
Vricrolatious wrote:
Justin Credulent wrote:
Quote:
Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship?


Well let's see: Would the mining ship have been blown up where it not for the criminal actions of the ganker?
Hm: Nope!

Well gee, that sort of suggest that the criminal is responsible, doesn't it? Whether a miner tanks his Hulk or not is irrelevant; a vulnerable target does not abrogate criminal responsibility. Technically the criminals are the ones who are responsible - not their victims - since, logically, the issue of "tanking your Hulk" would not even exist where it not for said criminals.


But an untanked Hulk (or barge in general) is JUST asking to be "graped in the mouth!"


Irrelevant.

A house could have it's doors wide open and no car in the parking lot... but you and you alone would still be held criminally responsible were you to enter the house and take something from it.

Someone could leave their car running and the door wide open... but you and you alone would still be held criminally responsible were you to drive off in it.

And before anyone wants to whine about how "but that's real life, EVE is just a game", my response is: Isn't EVE suppose to be "just like real life"? :-)


I was just aiming for a laugh in my last reply. I've never actually fired on a barge of any type, but I couldn't help leaving something in response to the post. I've mined (high, low and nullsec) and never been fired on and I've got friends that have been popped on the undock of their home station. New Eden is a cold place, CCP's never tried to hide that. Sure, new players may end up getting the short end of the stick on a occasion, but in regards to things like Hulkageddon and Goons current attack on ice miners would not, in fact, impact new players in most cases based on the targets. Last time I checked, Ospreys and Bantams weren't on the list of targets Blink

WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot! -Vric
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#45 - 2011-10-31 03:09:31 UTC
Justin Credulent wrote:
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Justin Credulent wrote:
Quote:
Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship?

...stuff said...


Under normal situations, yes. It's the criminal's fault. But having an entire alliance such as Goonswarm running around ganking miners (while paying others to do the same and announcing it ahead of time) is not a normal situation. Neither was Hulkageddon. Yet players decided to not properly tank their ships during these events. My argument still stands.

Edited for grammar.


Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that we were suddenly talking about Hulkageddon, since the OP made no such mention of it and only made reference to said "normal circumstances". Roll

(BTW, Announcing that you're going to rob someone's house also does not abrogate your own criminal responsibility.)

Quote:
This man get's it.

There ARE new players coming in all the time. How many LEAVE because they have next to no chance at getting a decent start. The bittervets have AMPLE opportunity to play Eve - elsewhere. They PREFER to sit in highsec killing noobs (or supporting it) and then justify it with "This is Eve" bullshit. Pure and simple.

If we keep catering only for the bandy-kneed old men of Eve it will become "Bittervets Retirement Home version 4".


If CCP keeps catering only to the bittervets, then that's the only people who will play. And, in reality, the "bittervets" are a very small minority of EVE: Fact: The total average SP for characters on EVE is around 10-14 million. That's how many months of play-time...? 10?

Another Interesting Fact: There are 20,000 trial accounts created each month.


Stop taking it so seriously. This is just a game after all. Like the folks in the other thread already pointed out: Eve is a place where morality is left at the login screen. Because of this, very few things will ever make sense. Even I can sometimes don't make sense, am I right?.Big smile

Adapt or Die
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#46 - 2011-10-31 03:59:42 UTC
Only two things I would like to see happen to shut up alot of folks

1 civillain ships made tougher
2 criminal status people shouldnt be allowed in high sec.

Other than that yeah ganks can still happen in high sec just now you have to target specific people for it and make it worth while.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Embrace My Hate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-10-31 04:13:49 UTC
Justin Credulent wrote:


True, EVE is just a game. However, EVE is no longer filling a "niche" - EVE is now in the mainstream, and like it or not, the type of people who are being drawn to EVE are not the same sort of players who got into the game 3, 4, 8 years ago. CCP is going to either have to adapt to these new players (and secure more capital in the process), or it'll unnecessarily restrict itself to a very small player market, which will eventually exhaust itself.

*shrug*



I like your posts Justin even though I don't necessarily support the same view as you do. You can not discount the small niche gamers that made this community what it is. EVE set out to be a very different MMO from its birth in that players create the story. As it sits you have to have a lot of experience, intelligence, motivation and time on your hands to really leave your fingerprint in this game. The current community appears not to appreciate this dynamic as the entire game is becoming obviously dull in comparison to its colored past. Should we get to the point where the pillars in our community give up on the ideals they once held and make way for these new players that must be spoon fed everything then EVE will be an empty hollow shell of an MMO and hardly exciting enough to entertain these mainstream players.

Giving in to the new mainstream players too much can jeopardize EVE's identity completely and thus ruin the experience for everybody involved.
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#48 - 2011-10-31 04:23:34 UTC
Dissallowing suicide ganking is just silly - you all say that that gankers are stopping you from playing the game the way you want - Isn't dissallowing them from ganking preventing them from doing what they want ? It cuts both ways after all.
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis
The Lost Drone Society
#49 - 2011-10-31 04:23:46 UTC
Vricrolatious wrote:


But an untanked Hulk (or barge in general) is just ASKING to be "graped in the mouth!"


lol, Anyone else have flash backs to George Carlin **** is Funny bit?

"She was asking for it, she had on a tight bathrobe"

Pirate

I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.
Reislier
#50 - 2011-10-31 04:33:04 UTC
gunship vs. gunship = pew pew
gunship vs. miner = pew

/golfclap

Be nice. If nice not work, be civil. If civil not work, beat with iron pipe till bloody and still.
Mittani's Baby
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-10-31 05:08:32 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Dissallowing suicide ganking is just silly - you all say that that gankers are stopping you from playing the game the way you want - Isn't dissallowing them from ganking preventing them from doing what they want ? It cuts both ways after all.

dad said all miners are whiners and gankers are obediaent.

I am not short. Dad cut my legs off so I could not run away when he beat me.
Kinta Huron
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2011-10-31 05:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinta Huron
Vricrolatious wrote:
Justin Credulent wrote:
Vricrolatious wrote:
Justin Credulent wrote:
Quote:
Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship?


Well let's see: Would the mining ship have been blown up where it not for the criminal actions of the ganker?
Hm: Nope!

Well gee, that sort of suggest that the criminal is responsible, doesn't it? Whether a miner tanks his Hulk or not is irrelevant; a vulnerable target does not abrogate criminal responsibility. Technically the criminals are the ones who are responsible - not their victims - since, logically, the issue of "tanking your Hulk" would not even exist where it not for said criminals.


But an untanked Hulk (or barge in general) is JUST asking to be "graped in the mouth!"


Irrelevant.

A house could have it's doors wide open and no car in the parking lot... but you and you alone would still be held criminally responsible were you to enter the house and take something from it.

Someone could leave their car running and the door wide open... but you and you alone would still be held criminally responsible were you to drive off in it.

And before anyone wants to whine about how "but that's real life, EVE is just a game", my response is: Isn't EVE suppose to be "just like real life"? :-)


I was just aiming for a laugh in my last reply. I've never actually fired on a barge of any type, but I couldn't help leaving something in response to the post. I've mined (high, low and nullsec) and never been fired on and I've got friends that have been popped on the undock of their home station. New Eden is a cold place, CCP's never tried to hide that. Sure, new players may end up getting the short end of the stick on a occasion, but in regards to things like Hulkageddon and Goons current attack on ice miners would not, in fact, impact new players in most cases based on the targets. Last time I checked, Ospreys and Bantams weren't on the list of targets Blink
New Eden is also a place where actions have consequences, looks like gankers have had a trouble free ride long enough in my opinion.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#53 - 2011-10-31 05:19:02 UTC
When I am mining, I go where no one else goes. It's not only better minerals but also no suicide monkeys flying around.

Besides, they'd need a battleship to pop my barge, let alone my hulk. If you don't tank your ships, you're a failure as a carebear.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Embrace My Hate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-10-31 05:37:49 UTC
Kinta Huron wrote:
New Eden is also a place where actions have consequences, looks like gankers have had a trouble free ride long enough in my opinion.


Your ignorance is unmatched.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-10-31 07:06:05 UTC
well i like OP post, however there are some inconsistencies in defense of the "griefed parties" .

If you are mission runner in "expensive ship" and you fleet up with three or more budies you are somewhat on safer side.

If you are miner in an "expensive hulk" and you fleet up with 5000 strong subcap and 1000 strong cap fleet you still die to one or two 20 mil ships.


Other than that its fine..
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-10-31 07:50:50 UTC
Suicide ganking does have major drawbacks. #1 you can't enter high sec without police chasing your ass around constantly trying to kill you, and #2 upon aggression your ship is always, without exception, killed.

I think things are fine the way they are, with the exception of insurance. If you commit a ship to blowing up another ship illegally in high sec, the insurance should be invalidated. If you want to suicide gank, you will really have to want to.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Fujiko MaXjolt
ACME HARDWARE
Exxitium
#57 - 2011-10-31 08:17:05 UTC
Well, griefing is not and has never been allowed in eve.
In fact, it is a bannable offense.

Suicide ganking, however, is fine - it just needs a tweak to have more of a penalty for the ganker, tbh

OP should really get his terms right before posting... Roll
Assagai Invari
Reign of Steel
Brave Collective
#58 - 2011-10-31 09:03:46 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
I think things are fine the way they are, with the exception of insurance. If you commit a ship to blowing up another ship illegally in high sec, the insurance should be invalidated. If you want to suicide gank, you will really have to want to.


Very much this.

But on the flip side of the coin, there could be underhanded, criminal element NPC corps willing to offer insurance cover for such purposes, you'd just have to pay more.

"Wives are just Tech 2 girlfriends...cost more, higher resists, stricter fitting requirements, and they use more powergrid." - Admiral Castine.
Alysane
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-10-31 09:27:16 UTC
As a Carebear, i agree that suicide ganking (or "griefing") is a perfectly acceptable game mechanic, and there really is no reason for people to whine and complain about it.

On the flipside, high sec Mining and Mission running (or carebearing) is ALSO a perfectly acceptable game mechanic, so there is no reason for gankers to be whining complaining about that either.

For as many Miner Whiner threads, there seems to be a correlating number of threads from gankers that seem to be demanding that CCP do something to either make their ganking easier, or to force Carebears out of High Sec or into PVP. Yes, its a pvp-centric game, but you dont HAVE to pvp to play this game or get enjoyment out of it. Some people enjoy PVP, some people enjoy collecting tears, and then there are those who dont. Both groups have their place in New Eden.

Only thing that PVP means is that nobody is immune from it, it can happen anywhere at any time. Outside of that, it doesnt mean you HAVE to fight other players if you dont want to.

As far as the suicide ganking driving away new players, i dont buy that. How often does a newbie Bantam mining Veldspar actually get ganked anyway?
Vyl Vit
#60 - 2011-10-31 09:31:53 UTC
What a boring post. This is the largest collection of EVE cliches ever compiled. As such it may have some archival value. As a thought to be considered? I have a petri dish of algae I'll run it past to see if they find any entertainment value in it. Enlightenment? Don't kid yourself. If you are just venting, you might get more relief from some Alka Seltzer.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.