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Dev blog: Odyssey summer expansion: Starbase iterations

First post First post
Author
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#281 - 2013-04-03 08:34:04 UTC
As a small portion of the community I got to say this is great to hear, planning for living in wormholes is back on the table Bear

Regarding CCPgames expectation management towards it's paying customers about many features in the past,
IF I was making promises at my company without delivering or delivering in time or as stated, I would be fired a long time ago.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Kamil Kamilov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2013-04-03 08:34:24 UTC
Please do so that we could bring to the village anchored another corporation or breaking Pos anchored by hacking!
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#283 - 2013-04-03 08:36:05 UTC
If you get the personal SMA working this will be an awesome expansion :) If not however, the most important part will be missing.

There is a major problem with the planned new personal storage system though. Almost every serious player has alts, especially wormhole players. Many alts in fact. We usually keep all our stuff in one place where all our alts can access it because the same roles are granted to all alts of a player. But with the new system each character will have its own storage and no other character can take stuff from it. What this means is that if I deploy my main to another wormhole and then want to get one of my ships with one of my other chars, I can't because my main was the one who stored it in the SMA.

This will be a huge problem and will in fact force me to continue keeping all but the most expensive stuff in general storage.

Please consider other options and make them work if at all possible, like: Grant access to personal storage for other characters based on PERSONAL standing. This way we could set our alts or trusted friends to excellent standing and they could access our storage but no one else could.

.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2013-04-03 08:58:57 UTC
Very nice first pass.

2 teams on it? I guess you guys decided it's a bigger priority than it sounded like you thought it was before that threadnaught on the topic.

I'm sure many will appreciate these first steps.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#285 - 2013-04-03 08:59:30 UTC
Unfortunately the priority of the corp hangars is higher than the prio for the ship hangars.

Personal ship hangars would be much more important for us as a wormhole corp since they hold much higher value stuff.

Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#286 - 2013-04-03 09:29:21 UTC
I find it quite silly that you can get more storage by having more alts, its a cheap solution from ccp tbh.

Another way to design personal hangars would be to make a hangar with say 20 x 10k m3 hangars and have a ui where you can enter character names in rows. If you want to give more storage to someone you enter their names in more then one field, their storage is simply increased by 10k for each row.
Celestis Kudzu
Elliss
#287 - 2013-04-03 09:35:44 UTC
Maybe u introduce bigger arrays ?

building ammo in 20 arrays really sux

access in pos shield help but it will still stupid


secound why we can`t invent / produce more jobs at once ?
Max Teranous
Teranous Productions
#288 - 2013-04-03 10:38:02 UTC
Sup,

I like the design on the personal hangers, the only change i would suggest is that rather have the unanchoring outright destroy everything in it, instead it drops some of the contents on unanchoring like loot in the same way as if the PSH had been destroyed.

What will happen with the current design is that if a POS needs to be moved or whatever, it's better for the owner to shoot the PSH themselves and at least get some of the contents back than unanchor it and definitely have all the contents destroyed if there's a few corp members that can't long in. (let's face it this always happens lol) It seems cockeyed for the design to encourage such behavior.
Qual
Knights of a Once Square Table INC.
#289 - 2013-04-03 10:43:35 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
I find it quite silly that you can get more storage by having more alts, its a cheap solution from ccp tbh.

Another way to design personal hangars would be to make a hangar with say 20 x 10k m3 hangars and have a ui where you can enter character names in rows. If you want to give more storage to someone you enter their names in more then one field, their storage is simply increased by 10k for each row.


Its hard to satify everyone. I'll rather take cheap solution NOW than a slightly better one in 12 months....
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#290 - 2013-04-03 10:50:37 UTC
I do think that ceos / directors should be able to take out of wormhole hangers, but with a rule, when items are taken from a hanger a notification should be issued to their owner.

Half the problem with CHAs isn't just that people can take things out, it's that there's little if no way to keep things separated once inside a particular division. The upcoming changes take a significant amount of pain out of the separation woes, but put people in a position of potentially losing all their stuff if they so much as take a weekend break or fall ill for a few days (RF Mode time).

So, IMO, it needs the option for "trusted" parties to extract all the assets.
Anthar Thebess
#291 - 2013-04-03 10:57:22 UTC
Why not just add 2 checkboxes to this "personal tabs".
1. Allow access for CEO/Directors
2. Allow access for ALL

Problem solved.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#292 - 2013-04-03 11:06:15 UTC
Alternative implementation of personal hangars:

- implement titles as selectable roles in POS structure access management (we need to separate POS management roles from hangar access, really)

- increase the number of divisions per CHA to something reasonable, 12, 16, 24 or whatever

- everyone with correct title to access a CHA can set a password for a div

- CEOs and directors can override this password, or if easier, enable a master password

- same kind of divisions in SMAs

This would allow alts or even friends sharing hangars, and giving temp access to your stuff to someone else when needed. Password would cling to your pod, like POS pwd.

Separating CHA and SMA access from Starbase Fuel Tech and Config Sbase Equipment is really the most important thing we need, and having titles as roles would achieve this.

.

Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#293 - 2013-04-03 11:06:43 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
put people in a position of potentially losing all their stuff if they so much as take a weekend break or fall ill for a few days

That's why you dont want to store all your stuff in a personal hangar. The choice between CHA and PHA is not obvious, and as stated by Fozzie, it's intentional.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#294 - 2013-04-03 11:16:50 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Why not just add 2 checkboxes to this "personal tabs".
1. Allow access for CEO/Directors
2. Allow access for ALL

Problem solved.


Adding the checkboxes would be really easy. Making the checkboxes do anything is the challenge. Lol

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#295 - 2013-04-03 11:19:05 UTC
Could we have some answers for those questions?

Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Q1: Will we be able to research and/or copy blueprints from our personal storages?

Q2: Can we issue contracts from/to our personal storages?

Q3: I didnt understand the reasons behind CSMA changes, could anyone explain?

Feature request: market facility. A director creates a list of trade-able goods, with prices. Any corp-mate can sell those goods to get isk from corp wallet, or can buy some. Goods are stored in a CHA tab, which is linked to the market facility. No orders are seen on a regular market, the interface looks more like a POCO.
You cannot over-estimate that feature. It would make running corporate projects (including, but not limited to idustry) so much more efficient! Did you ever try to organize a mining operation with fair rewards? What about T2 or T3 production chain? Almost impossible, unless all of your corpmates are your own alts. Do it please - it's a rather simple feature that would incredibly tighten connections within corporation, solidifying community.

brinelan
#296 - 2013-04-03 11:25:19 UTC
How feasible would it be to be able to use a corp hanger (or the new personal hanger) or even some new R&D array for all inputs and outputs for all manufacturing and research jobs in pos arrays?

Also, having the ability for the preference settings like input and output location to be saved like they can with sell order creation.

Another annoyance is you start a job from array X, why do we then have to select that array as the first step to creating the job, why not just have it auto select the array and the input location that your blueprint etc was in when you right clicked it? It always seemed odd that I had to tell it to use the array for the job when that is where my blueprint was to begin with.

Otherwise, the changes in the blog look good and I hope they all make it to release, especially the one where you can use arrays from anywhere in the pos shields. Moving the big ships around a pos and trying not to get hung up on stuff is annoying, and having a bunch of bookmarks to the various arrays gets messy.
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#297 - 2013-04-03 11:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Proddy Scun
Private Starbase Hangars --

Idea make director access parallel current access to member hangars at stations with offices.

That is allow directors to drop but not take items into private hangars.

Not allowing drops into private hangars can however make distribution of secured corp items (e.g. ammo) to individual players unnecessarily difficult. The most likely workarounds are mandatory logon overlap between directors and each member to receive items. OR setup unsecured areas or cans where less privilege members are simply trusted to take their items only...which takes us back to where we are NOW in many ways.

If you think fumbling items into private hangar space instead of corporate space is more likely at POS - then put a default popup warning which can be disabled by the user.

Roll Frankly I can see NO drawback to allowing directors to drop items into personal hangars. Any issue with undesired items and overflow can be solved on the private members next access where they can just jetcan the unwanted stuff ... or politely drop it back in shared corp hangar areas.

sorry if this is a rehash...but I don't have hours to read all the posts.

****

Actually I would make the lesser argument that directors should have take access to private starbase hangars versus the destroy all contents if moved option. The fact is lots of members are not only daily. Vacations and other RL circumstance may have members absent or short logon for weeks or even a few months. Its not unknown for entire POS to be moved to a different moon or system or temporarily stored away during wardec.

Idea I would say the incidence of distrust for directors is generally far outweighed by member preference that directors attempt to save the contents of personal hangars and restore them when the structure is reanchored.

Frankly if you mis-trust any corp director that much you should either keep your stuff in NPC station or change corps entirely. Its not like this proposal would save personal property from loss when CEO or director runs away with all corp assets. Sure director does not benefit from personal gear - BUT he still likely proceeds based on value of Corp asset like POS structures, resulting in your items being destroyed or inaccessible. On the idea that most director thefts are driven by value of personal assets instead of corporate...my counterargument follows along the lines of "You are an idiot if you keep PLEX in POS as there is no location driven need" and in the absence of private ship array your iridium plated ships can still be stolen.

In summary I think Player Owned Station (structure) implies that personal property stored there is vulnerable to theft by directore and CEO -- and therefore there is no need to change director level access but only to improve security distinctions between less members. (Might be different if the new POS allowed Corps to rent hangar and office space to non-corp members like NPC stations do. Then CONCORD internal security measure would overriden
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#298 - 2013-04-03 11:33:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Why not just add 2 checkboxes to this "personal tabs".
1. Allow access for CEO/Directors
2. Allow access for ALL

Problem solved.


Adding the checkboxes would be really easy. Making the checkboxes do anything is the challenge. Lol


A checkbox poll on every POS mod!
Andre Coeurl
Embers Children
#299 - 2013-04-03 11:49:38 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Why not just add 2 checkboxes to this "personal tabs".
1. Allow access for CEO/Directors
2. Allow access for ALL

Problem solved.


Same problem I envisioned myself, at least directors or the CEO should be given a way to move stuff to a new location. Hell, it would even be good enough to have a shinkwrapped item out of any personal hangar if need be, so nobody can use it but can only move it to the new location so the owner can unwrap it once he's back. but destroying all the stuff (presumably valuable stuff if it's in the personal hangar) if you need to relocate is plain dumb.
I'd never put my personal stuff in a place where it gets blown up if the tower needs to be relocated for any reason, due to the constant danger and the shifting needs of WH life that's going to happen sooner or later.
Seatox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2013-04-03 11:55:42 UTC
Is the current PoS code as truly awful as rumor has it? Someone should keep an eye on CCP Masterplan, lest he end up in a padded cell somewhere scribbling "POS = PIECE OF SKYNET IT ALL FITS HAHAHA" on the walls in crayon.