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Trebor Daehdoow for CSM8 - The Proven Performer - http://bit.ly/vote-trebor

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None ofthe Above
#501 - 2013-04-03 00:49:38 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


So on the basis that the chairman seemed not to be paying attention, as well as what the response of the community would have been if Two Step had not came out straight after the release of the minutes, with a calming influence and a course of action.

I think his timing was dead on.

If he had waited a little bit (a week or 10 days), there would have been blood in the water.


I find myself in agreement with you. Very disturbing, but the truth is the truth regardless of who speaks it.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#502 - 2013-04-03 00:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
I'm sure it was the toughest decision he made on CSM all year.


I certainly don't mean to speak for anyone, but given how outspoken he was in the minutes of both summits when he disagreed with something, I'm doubting it was as tough as you want people to think it was.

Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
I think Two step made a mistake by posting when he did. If he'd been more patient, he probably could have forged a consensus, and we could have crafted an even better opening post to frame the issue.


Newsflash: CSM consensus was irrelevant to the success of what he did. The thousands of players posting in support of him was what did it. It's not his fault that some of you wanted to drag your feet about doing the right thing. He knew what the right thing was, did it, and we the players are now better off for it. POSes being in the summer expansion isn't a CSM 7 success, it's a Two Step success.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#503 - 2013-04-03 01:59:37 UTC
C'mon Snow Axe.

Trebor was the guy who posted the election reform thread. I am pretty sure he can spot a mistake when he sees one.


None ofthe Above wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So on the basis that the chairman seemed not to be paying attention, as well as what the response of the community would have been if Two Step had not came out straight after the release of the minutes, with a calming influence and a course of action.

I think his timing was dead on.

If he had waited a little bit (a week or 10 days), there would have been blood in the water.


I find myself in agreement with you. Very disturbing, but the truth is the truth regardless of who speaks it.


I had that flash of truth as well.

I liked the CCP voter reform plan they created since it took care of a lot of loopholes.

One that currently stands out right now is the voting for chairman and other officer roles. Which some say forces null to spam candidates so they can vote themselves into higher office.

Frying Doom has been trying to make those offices more important in a serious way.

If those offices were more serious it would be harder for them to vote each other into them. I mean right now, those offices might not really come with a lot of baggage, so just voting your guy into one of them would be very tempting.

If there was a way to make those offices more serious or have repercussions, then it might keep the null blocks or bigger blocks from trying to spam candidates so they would have the chair. But if they did deserve to have the chair, perhaps they would still be voted into it, by the CSM.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Frying Doom
#504 - 2013-04-03 03:40:56 UTC
At this point I would like to point out that I was not the genius who came up with the idea that CSM members who fail to perform should not go to Iceland.

All I am doing is pointing out that CSM members who choose to become officers and assume the extra responsibility, as well and then fail to perform those roles should be counted in the category of non-performing Members.

CSM White Paper wrote:
If an Officer is no longer able or willing to perform his duties, a new Officer will be elected to replace them using the same election process. The CSM is a “flat” organization, and Officers do not have special powers, only additional responsibilities. The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice - Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. The responsibilities of the Secretary and Vice - Secretary are related to the production of official CSM publications such as the CSM Summit Minutes. Thus, CSM Officers are expected to be the most active members of the CSM.


So if they do not perform as above they should be removed from those positions and removed from eligibility to attend the Summit in Iceland in person.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Zink Spanner
The Red Headed League
#505 - 2013-04-03 03:51:34 UTC
Quote:
14. To Be Determined. I am really undecided about who to put in my final slot, and I want to sleep on it. Think you know who it should be? If so, post in my EVE-O thread and tell me why.



Malcanis - Why? Just listen http://crossingzebras.com/2013/03/25/csm8-election-interviews-malcanis/
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#506 - 2013-04-03 05:10:50 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
At this point I would like to point out that I was not the genius who came up with the idea that CSM members who fail to perform should not go to Iceland.

All I am doing is pointing out that CSM members who choose to become officers and assume the extra responsibility, as well and then fail to perform those roles should be counted in the category of non-performing Members.

CSM White Paper wrote:
If an Officer is no longer able or willing to perform his duties, a new Officer will be elected to replace them using the same election process. The CSM is a “flat” organization, and Officers do not have special powers, only additional responsibilities. The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice - Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. The responsibilities of the Secretary and Vice - Secretary are related to the production of official CSM publications such as the CSM Summit Minutes. Thus, CSM Officers are expected to be the most active members of the CSM.


So if they do not perform as above they should be removed from those positions and removed from eligibility to attend the Summit in Iceland in person.


Which would mean less gaming for the CSM chairmanship and other offices. Unless of course, they were serious about being an officer. Then they could just be voted in, do the stuff mentioned, unless they had serious reason not to and life can continue on.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#507 - 2013-04-03 08:03:38 UTC
Zink Spanner wrote:
Quote:
14. To Be Determined. I am really undecided about who to put in my final slot, and I want to sleep on it. Think you know who it should be? If so, post in my EVE-O thread and tell me why.



Malcanis - Why? Just listen http://crossingzebras.com/2013/03/25/csm8-election-interviews-malcanis/


Confirming he should recommend me twice! Cool

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#508 - 2013-04-03 08:09:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


So if you want to go and get hi-sec folks to vote be my guest, I spent weeks doing it last year on 4 accounts simultaneously, but this year the ball is in CCPs court.


So you're not prepared to act in what you see as your own interest? Haven't you forfeited any right to expect anyone else to help you as well then?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#509 - 2013-04-03 08:19:51 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So if you want to go and get hi-sec folks to vote be my guest, I spent weeks doing it last year on 4 accounts simultaneously, but this year the ball is in CCPs court.


So you're not prepared to act in what you see as your own interest? Haven't you forfeited any right to expect anyone else to help you as well then?

How are high sec voters my interest?

Yes I would like to see the voting of the CSM become higher with percentage in the low 90s or high 80's. But frankly so should every CSM member or candidate.

If you are going to try to stick me with that, I can ask you as I did Mynnna why you are not willing to lose weeks of your life promoting a voting system that with our current low percentages will do nothing but drive more people away.

The question is more relevant to you candidates as to why you are not doing more to promote the CSM than it is to ask me.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#510 - 2013-04-03 08:27:00 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
At this point I would like to point out that I was not the genius who came up with the idea that CSM members who fail to perform should not go to Iceland.

All I am doing is pointing out that CSM members who choose to become officers and assume the extra responsibility, as well and then fail to perform those roles should be counted in the category of non-performing Members.

CSM White Paper wrote:
If an Officer is no longer able or willing to perform his duties, a new Officer will be elected to replace them using the same election process. The CSM is a “flat” organization, and Officers do not have special powers, only additional responsibilities. The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice - Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. The responsibilities of the Secretary and Vice - Secretary are related to the production of official CSM publications such as the CSM Summit Minutes. Thus, CSM Officers are expected to be the most active members of the CSM.


So if they do not perform as above they should be removed from those positions and removed from eligibility to attend the Summit in Iceland in person.


Which would mean less gaming for the CSM chairmanship and other offices. Unless of course, they were serious about being an officer. Then they could just be voted in, do the stuff mentioned, unless they had serious reason not to and life can continue on.

Exactly, look at CSM 7 as an example did they follow this "The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice - Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community.", yes I am aware this is new this year but if officers are held to this standard or they are removed and then subsequently refused a trip to Iceland for non-performance, then they will take these offices as they should, and players will start to regard them better, than they do now.

And we will not have threads here with people asking an opinion and being left to hang for months.

And the "What is the CSM" page might finally get updated.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#511 - 2013-04-03 08:27:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So if you want to go and get hi-sec folks to vote be my guest, I spent weeks doing it last year on 4 accounts simultaneously, but this year the ball is in CCPs court.


So you're not prepared to act in what you see as your own interest? Haven't you forfeited any right to expect anyone else to help you as well then?


Actually it would be more fun to spread disinformation really. Be kind of funny flying around and promote lets say Trebor as the high sec candidate. Just to get hi sec votes, since they don't have a strong leader to vote for.

Just fly around saying Trebor is for getting rid of trade bots, and giving defenders in war decs more options and creating better fleet options for mission corps and better boosts for mining corps and what not. And tell them to show up and vote for the good ideas they can give CCP through Trebor.

Disclaimer: Anyone can take the place of Trebor, this is his thread, though, so I don't want to promote any of the unclean.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Prince Kobol
#512 - 2013-04-03 08:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So if you want to go and get hi-sec folks to vote be my guest, I spent weeks doing it last year on 4 accounts simultaneously, but this year the ball is in CCPs court.


So you're not prepared to act in what you see as your own interest? Haven't you forfeited any right to expect anyone else to help you as well then?

How are high sec voters my interest?

Yes I would like to see the voting of the CSM become higher with percentage in the low 90s or high 80's. But frankly so should every CSM member or candidate.

If you are going to try to stick me with that, I can ask you as I did Mynnna why you are not willing to lose weeks of your life promoting a voting system that with our current low percentages will do nothing but drive more people away.

The question is more relevant to you candidates as to why you are not doing more to promote the CSM than it is to ask me.


Simply it is not in there interests.

The lower the turnout, the easier it is for null sec blocks to get their people voted in.

If I was running on behalf of a null sec group and I know that I have a guaranteed x number of votes, then it was be in my interests to have as few people as possible outside of that block voting.

The lower the turn out, the higher my percentage of the votes will be.
Frying Doom
#513 - 2013-04-03 08:32:41 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So if you want to go and get hi-sec folks to vote be my guest, I spent weeks doing it last year on 4 accounts simultaneously, but this year the ball is in CCPs court.


So you're not prepared to act in what you see as your own interest? Haven't you forfeited any right to expect anyone else to help you as well then?

How are high sec voters my interest?

Yes I would like to see the voting of the CSM become higher with percentage in the low 90s or high 80's. But frankly so should every CSM member or candidate.

If you are going to try to stick me with that, I can ask you as I did Mynnna why you are not willing to lose weeks of your life promoting a voting system that with our current low percentages will do nothing but drive more people away.

The question is more relevant to you candidates as to why you are not doing more to promote the CSM than it is to ask me.


Simply it is not in there interests.

The lower the turnout, the easier it is for null sec candidates to get their people voted in.

If I was running on behalf of a null sec group and I know that I have a guaranteed x number of votes, then it was be in my interests to have as few people as possible outside that block voting.

The lower the turn out, the higher my percentage of the votes will be.

Same for where I live as well, and I was happy to promote the CSM until they released an STV system on us. After all say I tell people to just pick 6 candidates, how do I answer it if they say, "yeah but who am I actually voting for?"

Or worse the question "What is an STV, could you explain it", I give them a link on something to read, Then they tell me to get bent. Rather a waste of my time.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#514 - 2013-04-03 08:35:36 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
At this point I would like to point out that I was not the genius who came up with the idea that CSM members who fail to perform should not go to Iceland.

All I am doing is pointing out that CSM members who choose to become officers and assume the extra responsibility, as well and then fail to perform those roles should be counted in the category of non-performing Members.

CSM White Paper wrote:
If an Officer is no longer able or willing to perform his duties, a new Officer will be elected to replace them using the same election process. The CSM is a “flat” organization, and Officers do not have special powers, only additional responsibilities. The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice - Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. The responsibilities of the Secretary and Vice - Secretary are related to the production of official CSM publications such as the CSM Summit Minutes. Thus, CSM Officers are expected to be the most active members of the CSM.


So if they do not perform as above they should be removed from those positions and removed from eligibility to attend the Summit in Iceland in person.


Which would mean less gaming for the CSM chairmanship and other offices. Unless of course, they were serious about being an officer. Then they could just be voted in, do the stuff mentioned, unless they had serious reason not to and life can continue on.

Exactly, look at CSM 7 as an example did they follow this "The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice - Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community.", yes I am aware this is new this year but if officers are held to this standard or they are removed and then subsequently refused a trip to Iceland for non-performance, then they will take these offices as they should, and players will start to regard them better, than they do now.

And we will not have threads here with people asking an opinion and being left to hang for months.

And the "What is the CSM" page might finally get updated.


Yeah be nice, but Seleene apparently had to change jobs and such, so its a hard rule to enforce some of those office duties. Plus the NDA was big this year with communication so that is tough as well.

Normally I wouldn't make a big deal, just with how people say they want to game the election I would bring up the responsibilities of the office and some of that would go into consideration. But who knows really.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Frying Doom
#515 - 2013-04-03 08:40:05 UTC
rodyas wrote:

Yeah be nice, but Seleene apparently had to change jobs and such, so its a hard rule to enforce some of those office duties. Plus the NDA was big this year with communication so that is tough as well.

Normally I wouldn't make a big deal, just with how people say they want to game the election I would bring up the responsibilities of the office and some of that would go into consideration. But who knows really.

I can understand RL problems and such, but the fact was there we people on this forum being left to rot.

So if RL got in the way, he should have stepped down, for the good of the office.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#516 - 2013-04-03 08:40:29 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Yeah be nice, but Seleene apparently had to change jobs and such, so its a hard rule to enforce some of those office duties. Plus the NDA was big this year with communication so that is tough as well.


If only we had a PROVEN PERFORMER vice-chair to take the mantle of such duties when the actual chair was unavailable to do so.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#517 - 2013-04-03 08:40:40 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


So if you want to go and get hi-sec folks to vote be my guest, I spent weeks doing it last year on 4 accounts simultaneously, but this year the ball is in CCPs court.


So you're not prepared to act in what you see as your own interest? Haven't you forfeited any right to expect anyone else to help you as well then?

How are high sec voters my interest?

Yes I would like to see the voting of the CSM become higher with percentage in the low 90s or high 80's. But frankly so should every CSM member or candidate.

If you are going to try to stick me with that, I can ask you as I did Mynnna why you are not willing to lose weeks of your life promoting a voting system that with our current low percentages will do nothing but drive more people away.

The question is more relevant to you candidates as to why you are not doing more to promote the CSM than it is to ask me.


Simply it is not in there interests.

The lower the turnout, the easier it is for null sec blocks to get their people voted in.

If I was running on behalf of a null sec group and I know that I have a guaranteed x number of votes, then it was be in my interests to have as few people as possible outside of that block voting.

The lower the turn out, the higher my percentage of the votes will be.


I suppose with how bad most null sec ideas are, I would go with that strategy. The most they could get out of the CSM and game changes would be small compared to the laughs they could get through rigging the system.

For instance read the goonswarm update release and stuff.

The Mittani is pretty satisfied with null sec and doesn't need anything new or different there, so his best interest is going for the laughs in CSM. So he wants to stack it.

Mynna seems a bit more serious then that, but will be interesting to see if anything can be done, over all the whining or not. Perhaps mittens will win again, who knows.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Frying Doom
#518 - 2013-04-03 08:43:43 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Yeah be nice, but Seleene apparently had to change jobs and such, so its a hard rule to enforce some of those office duties. Plus the NDA was big this year with communication so that is tough as well.


If only we had a PROVEN PERFORMER vice-chair to take the mantle of such duties when the actual chair was unavailable to do so.

He must have had Rl problems as well especially after he fell on his sword to become Vice-Chairman so Two Step could be Secretary. Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#519 - 2013-04-03 08:46:04 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Yeah be nice, but Seleene apparently had to change jobs and such, so its a hard rule to enforce some of those office duties. Plus the NDA was big this year with communication so that is tough as well.


If only we had a PROVEN PERFORMER vice-chair to take the mantle of such duties when the actual chair was unavailable to do so.


Yeah, but I did feel the NDA was pretty harsh this time around.

But that does poke a hole in enforcing the officer duties though. I mean Trebor did post here, but it wasn't for the players in general perhaps, but just for some of them.

I mean I would expect if someone had an office role, to support their own base, but then try to support players in general. So with those expectation would create a lot of drama when an officer supported one player base or play style over another.

Maybe it would be too hard to counter the gaming in the election and just best to have it happen and deal with the results of it.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#520 - 2013-04-03 08:56:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Yeah be nice, but Seleene apparently had to change jobs and such, so its a hard rule to enforce some of those office duties. Plus the NDA was big this year with communication so that is tough as well.


If only we had a PROVEN PERFORMER vice-chair to take the mantle of such duties when the actual chair was unavailable to do so.

He must have had Rl problems as well especially after he fell on his sword to become Vice-Chairman so Two Step could be Secretary. Lol


So Two Step was forced to take the shaft, then every time Two Step tried to find respect and understanding on the forums about the issues that were important to him, here comes Trebor telling him what he did was a bad idea and a mistake. There is some black ops ganking for ya.

Make sure you vote first Malcanis when you make CSM, before Trebor does. I don't want to read another sad story.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne