Missions & Complexes

Before I begin, if I'm going to bump a recruitment thread, I would at least like to point out what a ridiculous notion it is that this is "not a recruitment thread" as the first line from OP reads. Now for the next myth.

Heading into ISN's public channel, I am greeted with the following MOTD:

EVE System > Channel MOTD:
ISN Requirements:
T2 / Faction Guns
Pirate / Navy Hulls
Logi's with Logistics V(5)
Warning: Placing a bounty on fellow ISN members and smack talking in local chat = Ban.

Sounds fair. Unfortunately, it's a lie. Proof follows, this happened only moments ago, names redacted to comply with forum rules:

Prospective Logi Pilot > VG Scimi 4 TL (fitting link) (cap stable w/implants)
Some guy > Vuhdu 4L LFSF (fitting link)
ISN Member > Prospective Logi Pilot we usually dont accept t2 fits (t1 rigs) you should have at least t2 rigs and faction links
Prospective Logi Pilot > I've been in HQ fleets here without, but w/e, I'll leave this channel then, got other stuff to put my isk in :)
ISN Officer > Capacitor (Lasts 5m 6s)
guywhocandomath> ISN Officer what fit you on about?
ISN Officer > take you (BS) somewhere else
ISN Officer > T2 Scimitar
guywhocandomath> *cough* he did say he had implants *cough*
ISN Officer > Prospective Logi Pilot and this VG Scimi 4 TL (fitting link)
ISN Officer > yeah and I even gavwe him the benifit of doubt and treid it with a +6%
guywhocandomath> ah k
Another Prospective Logi Pilot > Vuhdu 4L LFSF (fitting link) So this ISN Officer??
ISN Officer > still no go wont work so for lieing I am booting him permanatly
ISN Officer > that works
ISN Officer > I used that one for awhlie
guywhocandomath> can i just say, with 2 +5's and all lvl 5 it is cap stable =P
guywhocandomath> but i dont think he will have perfect cap skills, so yeah
ISN Officer > yours or the last one
guywhocandomath> that T1 rigged one
Different guy > ISN Officer. Is mine ok?
Typical ISN member > *latches to ISN Officer's leg and looks around*
ISN Officer > yeah not really important, rule No 1 never lie about a fit
ISN Officer > hang on let me look

This is the "T2 Scimitar (T1 rigs)" fit being discussed:

[Scimitar, VG Scimi 4 TL]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Reactor Control Unit II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4
Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5

As anyone with EFT can see, and as "guywhocandomath" points out, this is actually cap stable with EO-605 and EM-805 plugged in. You don't even need perfect cap skills. Actually you don't even need +5s, only +4s. So cap stability isn't the problem. The problem is that it's not shiny. It's perfectly functional, and it does not need T2 rigs or faction links. However, just for posting this fit, and pointing out that it is cap stable, the offender was PERMANENTLY BANNED from ISN's public channel, called a liar, and told to "take his (BS) somewhere else". Did he "talk smack in local?" No. Did he post a bounty on an ISN member? No. He posted a fit that worked before in ISN fleets, was told he needed to "make it more shiny", and instead he politely left the channel. PERMABANZ03RS!!

That is what you can and should expect from a shiny community. As you can see, the arrogance in ISN's management is only surpassed by their lack of knowledge about basic game mechanics. ("There are TWO cap implants?") Even when their error is pointed out to them by their own membership, their reaction is to just stick their fingers in their ears and yell LALALALALA until the subject is changed. Is the ban removed? Heck no. "He lied" or ISN management is wrong, and as the second possibility is out of the question (even though proven to be the case) the ban remains.

So the requirement for logi is NOT just "Logistics V(5)". That's a lie. The requirement is "at least t2 rigs and faction links", and a talent for STFU, doing what you're told, and wasting unnecessary ISK to "fit" in. So, fair warning, if you post a fit in ISN's public channel that isn't shiny, expect to either comply and change it or be banned for non-compliance, especially if the fit works.

If you look at the 7'62 SKS' post history it's an obvious DIN troll/ war dec alt, so i wouldn't be too worried about anyone getting hurt over that conversation, of which half was left out anyway according to my chat logs.

“…argue the point, ad infinitum” Really? As the log shows, he replied ONCE. There was no argument, at all. His ONLY reply was, “I've been in HQ fleets here without, but w/e, I'll leave this channel then, got other stuff to put my isk in :)” And then he left the channel. How is that “arguing the point, ad infinitum?” I guess absolute monarchs get a might touchy about being told no. I think what you are remembering is other pilots in the channel pointing out (twice) that you were wrong, and the fit is cap stable, with two implants instead of the one +6 you cited. They were even nice about it. But you banned the Prospective Logi Pilot for what someone else said. Or was it because he lied. Or was it non-compliance. I'm getting confused now.



Couple of problems with your logic here. First of all, you weren’t arguing that he was lying about having the implants. You were insisting that it wasn’t stable with a +6 implant, and completely forgot there are TWO implants that would work here. One for cap and the other for cap use on the shield transports. Now you are changing your story. You should just admit you were wrong. I’m guessing your ego won’t let that happen though. Secondly, two +4 implants (around 100m each) comes out about the same price as three T2 rigs, and are just as cap stable, not "3 times the cost". Why go with implants rather than rigs? Why not.



Why would he need T2 rigs if he has the implants which do the same thing?



Exactly my point. ISN insists on shiny just to be shiny. To live up to the name. To be elite. It has less to do with performance than with stroking your own egos. So now, instead of admitting you made a mistake when you banned this guy, you’re doubling down. You’ve changed it from a ban for “lieing” (SIC) about a fit being cap stable (which was based on forgetting there are two cap implants) to a ban for “failing to comply” with the request to make it more shiny, for no real reason. Had you been correct, and the fit not been stable, then yes he would have lied (or just been wrong, like you were) and the ban would be justifiable. Can’t have unstable Scimis on field. But you were not correct, and the ban was not justifiable, and so now the whole story has changed. Now the 12 hour ban is being “corrected” to permanent because someone pointed out that you were wrong when you did the ban in the first place? Wow.

Also, you appear to STILL be getting the math wrong. As stated, with the implants (glad to see you now at least realize there is more than one that works here) it is cap stable, not 7 mins and change.

Props on the tremendously ironic sig you have btw.

The fleets of ISN are and have pretty much always been extremely chillaxed, that's probably what i love most about the community. The only way to get a real image of what a community is actually like is to fly with them a few times. I always get amused when someone comments on how they were surprised how chill and nice people actually are in the community once you start flying with fleets.

Probably a lot to do with the forum spurging and drama that mostly the other communities are causing, similar to the pilot above.

For starter armor fleets i'd join "The Ditanian Fleet". Their isk/hr is a lot lower than a shiny shield group's would be, but it's a good place to start incursions if your skills are weighed towards armor tanking for now.

P.S. Can't DIN just start an own recruitment thread already and keep the trolls there?

Thanks for the replies. It sounds like a good strategy would be to try and join some of the new player armor fleets, see if I find Incursions to be fun or not, and then go from there (train shield skills, cross train for Nightmare, etc).

Personally I'd value a relaxed fun atmosphere over an extra 10% ISK an hour (or whatever) since I like to play Eve for fun, not as work.

Seems legit mr. DIN troll. Now seriously go start that own recruitment thread and keep your trolling there :P

EDIT: Chadardass' ridiculous incapability of masking his troll accounts just keeps astounding me... but these posts are pretty hilarious and show just how mad he is at ISN. Keep them coming as far as i'm concerned, they're funny.

Why not discuss it with each other in game or though mail rather than ranting on a forum thread which deals with how to fly incursions, not grievances you may/may not have experienced.

Half was left out? Then please, let's see the full log. Of course, you can't do that, because it will only show that I removed off-topic lines not posted by either party. That would diminish the validity of your implication, now wouldn't it.

Also, if you want to be technical, I was posting long before DIN and ISN got into their little scuffle. If you're going to research my post history, at least pay attention to the dates. Try again.

So the reason the first four words of this thread are, "Not a recruitment thread," is because only someone with an agenda could possibly infer that it is a recruitment thread? I'm sure all of goldiiee's threads start exactly the same way.

Yeah, call it what you want, just don't ask me to pretend along with you. Have a beer. Don't worry about being underage, I've put a "not a beer" sticker on the can for ya.

EDIT: By the way, do you really think it was a coincidence that this thread was started by goldiiee right after kadavor's recruitment thread was moved from Missions and Complexes to recruitment (and unstickied) after a long argument over that move? Read page 6 of their recruitment thread for some enlightenment. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171730&p=6 Yes, ISN actually DID rant and rave about how unfair it was to move their recruitment thread to recruitment. Then they started THIS thread. The "not a recruitment" thread.

With the utmost respect, if you removed your obvious pro-ISN goggles and took a close look at exactly what happened, you would notice the following FACTS:

1) Prospective Logi Pilot was PERMABANNED from ISN's public channel. He was not simply "not allowed in the fleet".
2) The reason for the ban was erroneous, in that, Goldiiee thought the fit was not cap stable. However it was.
3) He was not banned for "not being a non-team player" nor for "the sort of person" he is.
3) He was not banned because he wasn't "believed" re: his implants. Goldiiee made that up after the fact.
4) He was called out as a liar, publicly, based on Goldiiee's erroneous conclusion regarding his fit.
5) Goldiiee's erroneous conclusion was pointed out, twice, by ISN pilots, and ignored.
6) The ban was not lifted until the whole story hit the forums.
7) When confronted, Goldiiee removed the ban, and changed his tune about why he was banned in the first place.

You're good with all that? That's your prerogative.

However, none of the above is opinion. Every word is 100% verifiable by looking at the logs of a public channel and public forums. You can characterize those facts as propaganda if you want, but don't pretend to be a neutral party. While I respect your opinion, you are an ISN pilot and frequently go out of your way to demonstrate your loyalty to ISN and defend their actions regardless of what they do or say. Loyalty is a ... quality. They took you in as a new pilot, showed you the ropes, etc. For you, they literally "can do no wrong." However, I submit that competence, honesty, and fair dealing are qualities that prospective incursion pilots find important when choosing who to fly with. The log speaks for itself. People should be allowed to see the facts and make an informed decision.